Mark4HBK
Unicron
How to kill a guy in three easy steps.
Posts: 2,521
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Post by Mark4HBK on Apr 13, 2014 20:59:32 GMT -5
I imagine if that referee truly didn't know, he probably shit himself the second his hand hit the mat for the three. Probably figured he'd be super-duper fired over that one. I know, eh? Once I read that my heart really went out to Chad Patton - he must've had to change his shorts when he got to the back! (I wonder if we'll ever know for sure whether Heyman knew - he certainly acted as shocked as the rest of us, and someone pointed out that if you watch carefully it looks like he started to react to 'Taker kicking out of the final pin, and then realizing that there was no kick-out.)
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 13, 2014 23:07:54 GMT -5
I imagine if that referee truly didn't know, he probably shit himself the second his hand hit the mat for the three. Probably figured he'd be super-duper fired over that one. I know, eh? Once I read that my heart really went out to Chad Patton - he must've had to change his shorts when he got to the back! (I wonder if we'll ever know for sure whether Heyman knew - he certainly acted as shocked as the rest of us, and someone pointed out that if you watch carefully it looks like he started to react to 'Taker kicking out of the final pin, and then realizing that there was no kick-out.) To be fair the rule is that refs are supposed to treat it like a shoot and they're not supposed to be fired or fined the wrestler(s) who messed up the finish are. Granted it isn't always followed but it has been by and large.
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Post by thesunbeast on Apr 13, 2014 23:17:33 GMT -5
I personally believe that Paul Heyman knew, that the commentators knew (for reasons I described earlier), and that the referee knew. I find it very difficult to logically believe that the referee didn't know about it.
Firstly, WWE is such a micro-managed company that everything that they do, that's going to be done, is contrived. I don't mean that everyone has to know everything, but what I mean is that if you aren't in the know, you aren't going to be involved at all. In Undertaker's match, Vince Mcmahon, Undertaker, Brock lesnar, Paul Heyman, the referee, and the commentators all, overwhelmingly likely, knew about it. It's actually possible that HHH and Stephanie didn't know, since I don't think they were directly involved and Vince at that point is running the show, but I'm not sure if Vince would keep the secret from those two without feedback.
Secondly, WWE's production, while being the best in the world, is extremely micro-managed and extremely formumatic. Paul Heyman ran right into the ring and right into a spot where a camera was set to focus on his face. If WWE production knew about the streak ending, but didn't know if Heyman knew, then they would have already decided on and prepared for a camera shot on something else to focus on, while Paul Heyman would just so happen to have run into the ring and gave his reaction, possibly with the camera then focusing on Heyman a few moments later. This still would have been the scenario even if both WWE production and Paul Heyman knew about the finish, but WWE production not knowing if Paul Heyman knew. That's how screwy it is to say that Paul Heyman didn't know, WWE production wouldn't have focused on him even if Heyman did know, so long as production doesn't know for sure if Heyman knows.
Here's some food for thought: How many times in Wrestlemania history, when a manager is present, did the WWE camera's focus on the manager's face first immediately after a victory?
I'm sure the referee knew as well. If you look at the cadence of the referee's count throughout the match, it was different than the count he made for the 3rd F-5. So one thing can be determined: There was something different about the referee's view of the 3rd F-5 than the other pin attempts. My guess? The difference is that he knew it was the finish. As far as the rule of the referees making a three count if the wrestler doesn't kick out? Well that could be true, but that statement only applies to not kicking out, not about being ignorant of the finish. A person can know a finish and still make a three count if someone doesn't kick out. A wrestler can tell them "I'm not kicking out" even if the ref knows the finish. The ref has an ear piece where he can be told 30 seconds prior what the finish is. There are lots of possibilities. In addition to that, and in regards to the rule, it should be pointed out that in Undertaker's last few matches at Wrestlemania, you can see that when he kicks out of a false-finish, the referee is slow with the 3rd count, and actually pauses, but on the third F-5 at WM30, the 3rd count is quick, and not only that, usually when the actual finish is taking place, the count begins immediately after the cover, much faster than the covers when a wrestler kicks out.
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
Thank you, Brodie... for everything.
Posts: 11,445
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Post by mattperiolat on Apr 14, 2014 0:28:00 GMT -5
No flipping spit, WWE, you nearly KILLED that Mania crowd with the end of The Streak. The reaction was shock because we WERE shocked. No one seriously believed Taker was going to lose until the third F5 and it is all because of the build and the booking. Sorry, but you got no one to blame for it but yourselves.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 14, 2014 18:14:15 GMT -5
No flipping spit, WWE, you nearly KILLED that Mania crowd with the end of The Streak. The reaction was shock because we WERE shocked. No one seriously believed Taker was going to lose until the third F5 and it is all because of the build and the booking. Sorry, but you got no one to blame for it but yourselves. my believing there was no chance the streak would be broken had nothing to do with the build of the match.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 18:18:58 GMT -5
No flipping spit, WWE, you nearly KILLED that Mania crowd with the end of The Streak. The reaction was shock because we WERE shocked. No one seriously believed Taker was going to lose until the third F5 and it is all because of the build and the booking. Sorry, but you got no one to blame for it but yourselves. my believing there was no chance the streak would be broken had nothing to do with the build of the match. Well, even if the match had been built better it's unlikely anyone would have seriously considered the idea of Lesnar winning, but it certainly didn't help it feel like any less of an anticlimax that the entire build was Taker showing him up at every turn, constantly getting the upper hand, and making Lesnar look like an idiot who kept falling for all of his usual tricks.
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