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Post by pepsitwist on Apr 15, 2014 11:45:41 GMT -5
That had to be intentional right? Some big rib on the IWC. It was John Cena at his most pandering cartoonish worst. Why use your biggest name to once again try and destroy the Wyatt gimmick? It's so obvious they are the hottest thing WWE has right now (along with Bryan and The Shield.)
It really dragged on, the only thing saving was Bray's retort. Was that the intent? I'm not so sure because it comes off incredibly bad on television.
The tone of the promo was just unnecessary and it could have really hurt the Wyatt's credibility.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
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Post by r. on Apr 15, 2014 11:46:01 GMT -5
John laid a massive turd on that stage. This is way, way, waaaayyyy too early to be tearing down and ridiculing a monster stable like the Wyatts. Would WWF have pulled this with Undertaker, Mankind, Kane, or Vader? Hell no. Lost some respect for John tonight. Luckily I already lost all respect for john, So hearing about this stupidity didn't surprise me in the least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:07:47 GMT -5
I actually agree with pepsitwist that WWE probably did it to sort of troll the audience.
I actually DO think a change is finally coming for Cena in some fashion or another. He's a relic at this point representing the previous generation and era. Hell, at least Orton and Batista are turning into corporate heels because they know we're sick of them. Now, what this change for Cena will be I don't know. Will he start trash talking the fans that boo him? Will he go full blown heel? Or maybe just change up his character somehow.
I will say though that Cena/Wyatt is reminding me of Austin vs Hart. The face has become stale and the heel is becoming a hero to the fans. Add to that the fact that Cena is calling himself "The Measuring Stick" and claiming that the new generation has to go through him. It's a very heelish thing to say.
WWE higher-ups realize that they are getting into a new era, and the fact that they had Cena do his schtick to a crowd that didn't care was intentional imo. Yes, WWE has dropped the ball befor when they could turn Cena heel, but this is the time to do it if there ever was.
Also, Evolution could use a 4th guy from their era...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:08:00 GMT -5
A lot of Cena's promos revolve around leeching off someone else's popularity.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
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Post by Crimson on Apr 15, 2014 12:19:59 GMT -5
Also, Evolution could use a 4th guy from their era... Not sure if Evolution or Main Event Mafia.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:21:20 GMT -5
Also, Evolution could use a 4th guy from their era... Not sure if Evolution or Main Event Mafia. Emperors of Wrestling!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:26:17 GMT -5
I saw most of that segment (Cena's part) on mute last night. Apparently I missed nothing (except a MySpace reference in the year 2014 - not sure if that was meant as a joke or not...?), although the Wyatts no-selling the shit out of it somehow came through said muted speakers quite loudly. I really hope this segment wasn't meant to be a backfire - that they expected the heels to heel it up like usual, but instead Bray and Co. just smartly reacted in no way whatsoever and made it so much better than the usual tripe.
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Post by king1836 on Apr 15, 2014 12:26:35 GMT -5
Not sure if Evolution or Main Event Mafia. Emperors of Wrestling!
M.E.N. Main Event Nation!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:27:35 GMT -5
M.E.N. Main Event Nation!
The Headline Syndicate.
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kerda
Trap-Jaw
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Post by kerda on Apr 15, 2014 12:31:34 GMT -5
I don't think there would be any value in Cena "turning heel" at this point. It would feel almost like a Russo swerve, where you have this guy who's spent the last decade being the consummate babyface, yet all of the sudden he breaks bad and starts doing corny "YOU PEOPLE!!!" heel promos. And let's be honest: John Cena the man is likable and naturally charismatic. "John Cena" the professional wrestling character can't act to save his life, and trying to transform him into a serious, threatening figure would be laughable at best.
I think the path they're taking him down with the Wyatt feud is a good spot for him. He's becoming solidly entrenched in the upper midcard, and being the "measuring stick", the veteran performer that the new generation has to pass through to reach the main event, is perfect for him. Beating John Cena clean still means something, since no character other than perhaps Hulk Hogan has been pushed harder by the company for a longer span of time, and there's such a gargantuan pool of promising talent for him to work with (Cesaro, Harper, Big E, Ambrose, Rollins, Rusev, Bo Dallas). He could spent the next few years just doing these sorts of "3rd match on the show" feuds and really give back to the company while still selling merchandise, drawing in the younger fans and being that effective public face for the company that he has been for so long.
The promo last night was garbage (intentionally so, in my opinion), but the Cena character still has a ton of value if he's utilized correctly as a legend and a gatekeeper. Of course, that's assuming he actually opens said gate to let the new guys through, but I'm actually willing to give the company the benefit of the doubt right now.
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Post by king1836 on Apr 15, 2014 12:32:30 GMT -5
M.E.N. Main Event Nation!
The Headline Syndicate.
Headline Syndicate? Well, Orton did say he would go to the papers!
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Post by PTBartman on Apr 15, 2014 12:42:10 GMT -5
If anyone saw "Total Divas" last night, there was a part when Cena was attached to a computer and wouldn't respond to Nikki Bella. I got theories.... 1. Porn (obvious) 2. 4Chan 3. Photoshopping the Wyatts 4. Rosetta Stone Mandarin 5. Myspace He was writing Phil Brooks, Walking Dead Enthusiast, Thank Yous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 13:29:36 GMT -5
But at the same time (and it may just be my memory messing up), I don't remember any categorically bad promo from him in that time frame either, up until last night. The last facepalm-worthy promo of his I remember was when he ran down The Nexus in what, 2010? Since then, and again it may be my memory at fault, I feel he's done a pretty good job, certainly with more good performances than bad. His performances on the mic against Rock, Punk, Bryan and Orton were very good, he even managed to pull off good work against Ryback and Mark Henry. I would say up until this week his work against Wyatt has been good too, really putting him over as a threat. His promo on the go-home to Wrestlemania was a highlight. I guess for me, the problem with Cena especially over the past few years has not been with his promos or with his character, which I suppose comes down to personal preference, but more with the bad booking decisions he's been involved in, like him beating Bray at Wrestlemania. A lot of my issues with Cena's promos are admittedly from a writing standpoint, so you and I just have different opinions about that. The Ryback feud made Cena look like a hypocritical asshole, the Rock feud leading up to Mania 29 made him seem like a petulant child, and the Punk feud in 2012 basically just invented a narrative out of thin air. And while none of those promos resorted to crap like "JBL is poopy", Cena still basically buried Ryback and Punk in his own way. With Ryback it was "I'm not scared of you, I've fought men like Randy Orton and Triple H for the WWE Championship," after months of Ryback being booked as the biggest badass in the company. And with Punk it was the whole "You're a coward, you've constantly cheated to retain your title!" spiel that was, y'know, demonstrably untrue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 14:25:18 GMT -5
I don't think there would be any value in Cena "turning heel" at this point. It would feel almost like a Russo swerve, where you have this guy who's spent the last decade being the consummate babyface, yet all of the sudden he breaks bad and starts doing corny "YOU PEOPLE!!!" heel promos. And let's be honest: John Cena the man is likable and naturally charismatic. "John Cena" the professional wrestling character can't act to save his life, and trying to transform him into a serious, threatening figure would be laughable at best. I think the path they're taking him down with the Wyatt feud is a good spot for him. He's becoming solidly entrenched in the upper midcard, and being the "measuring stick", the veteran performer that the new generation has to pass through to reach the main event, is perfect for him. Beating John Cena clean still means something, since no character other than perhaps Hulk Hogan has been pushed harder by the company for a longer span of time, and there's such a gargantuan pool of promising talent for him to work with (Cesaro, Harper, Big E, Ambrose, Rollins, Rusev, Bo Dallas). He could spent the next few years just doing these sorts of "3rd match on the show" feuds and really give back to the company while still selling merchandise, drawing in the younger fans and being that effective public face for the company that he has been for so long. The promo last night was garbage (intentionally so, in my opinion), but the Cena character still has a ton of value if he's utilized correctly as a legend and a gatekeeper. Of course, that's assuming he actually opens said gate to let the new guys through, but I'm actually willing to give the company the benefit of the doubt right now. The point most people are making isn't necessarily that he HAS to turn heel, just that he needs freshening up as a character. You can keep him as a face, and in the gatekeeper role they seem to be going with, but his schtick of acting like a 12 year old when it comes to promos on his opponents is tired. Even Hogan, who you brought up, had to change it up during his career when fan reaction demanded it. Cena turning heel is simply one possibility for that freshening up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 14:31:55 GMT -5
I don't think there would be any value in Cena "turning heel" at this point. It would feel almost like a Russo swerve, where you have this guy who's spent the last decade being the consummate babyface, yet all of the sudden he breaks bad and starts doing corny "YOU PEOPLE!!!" heel promos. And let's be honest: John Cena the man is likable and naturally charismatic. "John Cena" the professional wrestling character can't act to save his life, and trying to transform him into a serious, threatening figure would be laughable at best. I think the path they're taking him down with the Wyatt feud is a good spot for him. He's becoming solidly entrenched in the upper midcard, and being the "measuring stick", the veteran performer that the new generation has to pass through to reach the main event, is perfect for him. Beating John Cena clean still means something, since no character other than perhaps Hulk Hogan has been pushed harder by the company for a longer span of time, and there's such a gargantuan pool of promising talent for him to work with (Cesaro, Harper, Big E, Ambrose, Rollins, Rusev, Bo Dallas). He could spent the next few years just doing these sorts of "3rd match on the show" feuds and really give back to the company while still selling merchandise, drawing in the younger fans and being that effective public face for the company that he has been for so long. The promo last night was garbage (intentionally so, in my opinion), but the Cena character still has a ton of value if he's utilized correctly as a legend and a gatekeeper. Of course, that's assuming he actually opens said gate to let the new guys through, but I'm actually willing to give the company the benefit of the doubt right now. The point most people are making isn't necessarily that he HAS to turn heel, just that he needs freshening up as a character. You can keep him as a face, and in the gatekeeper role they seem to be going with, but his schtick of acting like a 12 year old when it comes to promos on his opponents is tired. Even Hogan, who you brought up, had to change it up during his career when fan reaction demanded it. Cena turning heel is simply one possibility for that freshening up. Exactly. People sometimes get on this very narrow idea of wrestling. "Do something different" doesn't automatically mean "turn him heel." Its like how sometimes WWE gets locked into this idea that you have to absolutely destroy a babyface with beatdowns/uneven odds/etc for months on end then let them win once in order to build drama. There are many ways to build tension and drama in wrestling and just "turning him heel" isn't the only way.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 15, 2014 14:39:57 GMT -5
I just don't understand John Cena. I really don't. They do stuff like this with the guy that makes him just incredibly detrimental to anyone he works with, unless they're firmly established already. I get that they want him to be "funny" for the kids, but you would think that with how much they've protected Bray Wyatt, someone would realize that last night's stupid segment probably wasn't the best idea. The only way this works is if Bray massacres him in the steel cage. Cena's jokes have to bite him in the ass this time, because every time they don't, someone loses credibility.
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Post by RedSmile on Apr 15, 2014 14:45:21 GMT -5
If anyone saw "Total Divas" last night, there was a part when Cena was attached to a computer and wouldn't respond to Nikki Bella. I got theories.... 1. Porn (obvious) 2. 4Chan 3. Photoshopping the Wyatts 4. Rosetta Stone Mandarin 5. Myspace Proposed Edit to Theory: 2. 4Chan The FAN Forums Probably under the assumed alias', Gorilla Monsoon, Hit Girl, and/or Professor Chaos.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 15:01:02 GMT -5
I've said time and time again, all insults in wrestling should be disguised compliments. So if Jesse Ventura said "this guy is a lunatic, I don't like him, he does whatever he wants, he doesn't care about the rules, Jack Tunney needs to suspend or ban him" or words to that effect about the Ultimate Warrior, it allows the heel announcer to express hatred for the performer, while at the same time, getting the guy over as an uncontrollable maniac. It's different to say JBL calling Daniel Bryan a goat, or a troll, or a farm animal. Those are outright insults, usually unchallenged, which only make the face look stupid. THANK YOU. You just came up with a way to get across the thing I've been trying explain about why most of the "heel" commentary today does nothing but bury performers, while it used to do exactly the opposite.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Apr 15, 2014 15:36:57 GMT -5
Cena's promo stood out as a terrible promo this week. There's no question about that. But this used to be a weekly thing, and would be fairly typical of a Cena promo. Those times are gone in my opinion. These days he generally varies from solid to very good on the mic, and he's better than in the ring he's ever been. Yet it seems people are very reluctant to give him any praise when he's good but are so quick to jump all over him when he gives a bad performance (however rare it may be). I understand that he's not everybody's cup of tea, hell I'm not even a huge fan, but to see this week's promo labelled as the "same old shit" makes me think those saying it haven't been watching for the past three years or so. Cena's promos, whether they're serious or joking, always come off to me as pandering bullshit. It's always either kiddie jokes or "shouting so you can tell I'm serious" stuff about how much he loves that the WWE Universe has an opinion about him. I remember his promo against Orton in the Raw before TLC last year being very good, and I remember he had a very good promo with Bryan leading up to Summerslam, but before that you'd have to go back to the original Punk feud from 2011 to find a single worthwhile promo from him. he is pandering. I want to be pandered to when I devote my time to something. Why don't you?
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Apr 15, 2014 15:38:54 GMT -5
Imagine if Cena actually did do a streak feud with Undertaker. The photoshops! The bucket of poop being dumped on the Phenom!
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