|
Post by Piccolo on Apr 15, 2014 15:47:28 GMT -5
I've said time and time again, all insults in wrestling should be disguised compliments. So if Jesse Ventura said "this guy is a lunatic, I don't like him, he does whatever he wants, he doesn't care about the rules, Jack Tunney needs to suspend or ban him" or words to that effect about the Ultimate Warrior, it allows the heel announcer to express hatred for the performer, while at the same time, getting the guy over as an uncontrollable maniac. It's different to say JBL calling Daniel Bryan a goat, or a troll, or a farm animal. Those are outright insults, usually unchallenged, which only make the face look stupid. This is really insightful. I agree completely. (I haven't watched in a while before last night, though, so sorry if this sounds naive... but were they using goat as a play on G.O.A.T, or just saying it because he had a beard?)
|
|
|
Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Apr 15, 2014 16:46:49 GMT -5
I'm not even particularly fond of the Wyatts' act most of the time (yes, I know how that sounds with my avatar, shut up - mostly wanted to experiment with the picture and liked how it came out) but yeah, that segment was pretty infuriating. And after it, if Bray doesn't win at Extreme Rules, his credibility's pretty much shot. Not simply because I'm anti-Cena, but I think reenacting Brock Lesnar vs. the Undertaker from Wrestlemania XXX would be the best way to go with this cage match. Cena tries everything he can to keep Wyatt down, but Wyatt keeps coming, almost feeding off Cena's attempts to hurt him. Wyatt then destroys Cena, maybe to the point of making him bleed (?). Wyatt then gives Cena a couple of Sister Abigails, maybe one even into the cage or from the top rope, and pins Cena clean. Cena takes a decent sabbatical (six months at least?) while the Wyatt Family either feuds with the Shield again or looks to destroy Daniel Bryan once and for all now that he's the new shiny hero champion of WWE.
|
|
stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
|
Post by stealthamo on Apr 15, 2014 16:57:31 GMT -5
I've said time and time again, all insults in wrestling should be disguised compliments. So if Jesse Ventura said "this guy is a lunatic, I don't like him, he does whatever he wants, he doesn't care about the rules, Jack Tunney needs to suspend or ban him" or words to that effect about the Ultimate Warrior, it allows the heel announcer to express hatred for the performer, while at the same time, getting the guy over as an uncontrollable maniac. It's different to say JBL calling Daniel Bryan a goat, or a troll, or a farm animal. Those are outright insults, usually unchallenged, which only make the face look stupid. This is really insightful. I agree completely. (I haven't watched in a while before last night, though, so sorry if this sounds naive... but were they using goat as a play on G.O.A.T, or just saying it because he had a beard?) Calling Bryan a goat started when Punk called him a goat-face back when they feuded 2 years ago. After he said it, the commentators felt the need to repeat it every single week. I think Bryan played it off intitally by saying he is the G.O.A.T., but that stopped pretty quickly. Nowadays it's just JBL saying it ad nauseam, but it's JBL so it's not shocking in the absolute least.
|
|
Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
|
Post by Blindkarevik on Apr 15, 2014 17:02:27 GMT -5
He should've just come out with an 80s hip-hop beat and said, "I'M JOHN CENA.... AND I'M IN A RAGE!!!! I WANT BRAY WYATT... AND I WANT HIM IN A CAGE!!!"
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,586
|
Post by Bo Rida on Apr 15, 2014 17:27:29 GMT -5
Maybe this is what Bray wanted all along? Maybe he's giving Cena just enough rope to hang himself?
Bray could have stopped him at any time but what better way to expose Cena as a false idol than to let him do it himself?
|
|
|
Post by Old Jack Burton on Apr 15, 2014 18:24:40 GMT -5
The point most people are making isn't necessarily that he HAS to turn heel, just that he needs freshening up as a character. You can keep him as a face, and in the gatekeeper role they seem to be going with, but his schtick of acting like a 12 year old when it comes to promos on his opponents is tired. Even Hogan, who you brought up, had to change it up during his career when fan reaction demanded it. Cena turning heel is simply one possibility for that freshening up. Exactly. People sometimes get on this very narrow idea of wrestling. "Do something different" doesn't automatically mean "turn him heel." Its like how sometimes WWE gets locked into this idea that you have to absolutely destroy a babyface with beatdowns/uneven odds/etc for months on end then let them win once in order to build drama. There are many ways to build tension and drama in wrestling and just "turning him heel" isn't the only way. My 2 cents: Cena is pretty much a heel here. He's being incredibly obnoxious, and the Wyatts are very popular. The heel is the guy whose ass you wanna see kicked. Which is what everyone wants to see happen with Cena here, both casual and hardcore fan alike.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 18:29:39 GMT -5
Exactly. People sometimes get on this very narrow idea of wrestling. "Do something different" doesn't automatically mean "turn him heel." Its like how sometimes WWE gets locked into this idea that you have to absolutely destroy a babyface with beatdowns/uneven odds/etc for months on end then let them win once in order to build drama. There are many ways to build tension and drama in wrestling and just "turning him heel" isn't the only way. My 2 cents: Cena is pretty much a heel here. He's being incredibly obnoxious, and the Wyatts are very popular. The heel is the guy whose ass you wanna see kicked. Which is what everyone wants to see happen with Cena here, both casual and hardcore fan alike. Hmm, I know what you mean. But there is still a pretty big Cena fanbase out there that splits the crowd in most cities (though the split is leaning towards heel-Cena more and more). But even as a heel, he could still evolve his character some to make him a heel that people actually want to see get beat up and not just see off TV.
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 15, 2014 22:16:47 GMT -5
Cena's promos, whether they're serious or joking, always come off to me as pandering bullshit. It's always either kiddie jokes or "shouting so you can tell I'm serious" stuff about how much he loves that the WWE Universe has an opinion about him. I remember his promo against Orton in the Raw before TLC last year being very good, and I remember he had a very good promo with Bryan leading up to Summerslam, but before that you'd have to go back to the original Punk feud from 2011 to find a single worthwhile promo from him. he is pandering. I want to be pandered to when I devote my time to something. Why don't you? Pandering isn't a positive trait and never has been. It's a disingenuous and artificial way of brainwashing weak-minded people into falling into line or obeying by preying on their base beliefs or prejudices. A rational person shouldn't want to be pandered to. They would want to know that the subject at hand was the legitimate and honest belief of the deliverer and not lies or manipulations dictated by a virtual snake oil salesman.
|
|
RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
|
Post by RIHT on Apr 15, 2014 22:23:28 GMT -5
It's a damn shame because he can be great. Serious Cena is cool. We don't need forced jokey Cena. Stop it.
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 15, 2014 22:24:55 GMT -5
It's a damn shame because he can be great. Serious Cena is cool. We don't need forced jokey Cena. Stop it. Imo, Jokey Cena makes the moments where he does get serious that much more meaningful.
|
|
RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
|
Post by RIHT on Apr 15, 2014 22:26:03 GMT -5
It's a damn shame because he can be great. Serious Cena is cool. We don't need forced jokey Cena. Stop it. Imo, Jokey Cena makes the serious moments that much more meaningful. Serious Cena would make the jokes that much funnier... well, sort of.
|
|
|
Post by Surfer Sandman on Apr 15, 2014 23:37:12 GMT -5
Bray Wyatt pulls off killer promos and Cena counters with...this shit?
Get ready to watch your legacy disappear at Extreme Rules, John.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 23:40:01 GMT -5
Going to mention since it seems like a good place to bring it up, if you want to see Cena give a much better response to Bray look at that WrestleMania post-show thing on the Network. Most of it's just the hype video for the match then the match itself, but Cena cuts a very serious, very good promo at the end that fits the story way better.
|
|
|
Post by Surfer Sandman on Apr 15, 2014 23:45:33 GMT -5
It's a damn shame because he can be great. Serious Cena is cool. We don't need forced jokey Cena. Stop it. I'm not a fan of "SRS Cena" because when he tries it, it comes off as forced. Also, he looks constipated as hell when he does it.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Apr 16, 2014 5:08:05 GMT -5
he is pandering. I want to be pandered to when I devote my time to something. Why don't you? Pandering isn't a positive trait and never has been. It's a disingenuous and artificial way of brainwashing weak-minded people into falling into line or obeying by preying on their base beliefs or prejudices. A rational person shouldn't want to be pandered to. They would want to know that the subject at hand was the legitimate and honest belief of the deliverer and not lies or manipulations dictated by a virtual snake oil salesman. he's acting. It's not legitimate because he's playing a character. Should the Undertaker be speaking of his legitimate beliefs? Or to mention this feud, should the Wyatt family be spouting their legitimate beliefs?
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 5:11:09 GMT -5
Pandering isn't a positive trait and never has been. It's a disingenuous and artificial way of brainwashing weak-minded people into falling into line or obeying by preying on their base beliefs or prejudices. A rational person shouldn't want to be pandered to. They would want to know that the subject at hand was the legitimate and honest belief of the deliverer and not lies or manipulations dictated by a virtual snake oil salesman. he's acting. It's not legitimate because he's playing a character. Should the Undertaker be speaking of his legitimate beliefs? Or to mention this feud, should the Wyatt family be spouting their legitimate beliefs? His character is contrived, inconsistent and phony as shit. Even in the realm of fiction, he's one of the easiest guys to deconstruct and tear apart. His entire character, reactions and approach are a walking contradiction. It's almost becoming a parody now.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 16, 2014 5:21:28 GMT -5
i'd love to...just once mind! see a crowd that was dead silent for Cena, i think this is how we break him and the WWE, just keep quiet, he's always crowing on about how he doesn't care if the people boo him or cheer him, well then do neither, they will soon change his character if everyone just shut up. You have a point. This, I think, is why Cena will never turn heel.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 16, 2014 5:23:08 GMT -5
I've said time and time again, all insults in wrestling should be disguised compliments. So if Jesse Ventura said "this guy is a lunatic, I don't like him, he does whatever he wants, he doesn't care about the rules, Jack Tunney needs to suspend or ban him" or words to that effect about the Ultimate Warrior, it allows the heel announcer to express hatred for the performer, while at the same time, getting the guy over as an uncontrollable maniac. It's different to say JBL calling Daniel Bryan a goat, or a troll, or a farm animal. Those are outright insults, usually unchallenged, which only make the face look stupid. This is really insightful. I agree completely. (I haven't watched in a while before last night, though, so sorry if this sounds naive... but were they using goat as a play on G.O.A.T, or just saying it because he had a beard?) Foley said it in his book as well, that ridiculing your opponent gets you nothing. If you lose, then you lost to a piece of garbage. If you win, then who cares? You beat a piece of garbage. I like to call it 'House of Flying Daggers syndrome.' (Well done, you either killed a blind girl, or got killed by a blind girl.)
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Apr 16, 2014 6:08:49 GMT -5
i'd love to...just once mind! see a crowd that was dead silent for Cena, i think this is how we break him and the WWE, just keep quiet, he's always crowing on about how he doesn't care if the people boo him or cheer him, well then do neither, they will soon change his character if everyone just shut up. of course, I'm sure the many who love him will agree to go along with that.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Apr 16, 2014 6:09:56 GMT -5
he's acting. It's not legitimate because he's playing a character. Should the Undertaker be speaking of his legitimate beliefs? Or to mention this feud, should the Wyatt family be spouting their legitimate beliefs? His character is contrived, inconsistent and phony as shit. Even in the realm of fiction, he's one of the easiest guys to deconstruct and tear apart. His entire character, reactions and approach are a walking contradiction. It's almost becoming a parody now. contrived and and phony are matters of opinion. But I've never gotten the inconsistent part about him? Why? Because sometimes he gets angry but not always?
|
|