SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 6:22:03 GMT -5
His character is contrived, inconsistent and phony as shit. Even in the realm of fiction, he's one of the easiest guys to deconstruct and tear apart. His entire character, reactions and approach are a walking contradiction. It's almost becoming a parody now. contrived and and phony are matters of opinion. But I've never gotten the inconsistent part about him? Why? Because sometimes he gets angry but not always? Opinions are negated and inconsequential in the presence of example and evidence. And Cena's character, ad-nauseam, has many examples that have been mentioned countless times. And he's inconsistent in that his character does not exhibit proper, realistic, or even logical reactions or corresponding emotions to similar events/tragedies/obstacles. If he was a real person, he'd be labeled as severely bi-polar. He makes no sense. He's simply a terribly written avatar for writers who want to shoe-horn in unfunny, worthless and story-destroying comedy, or to justify without exposition the narrative they want told -- not the one that makes sense or is the natural progression. He's basically a blank slate WWE fills in, however, whenever, they see fit, logic and reason be damned.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 16, 2014 6:39:01 GMT -5
contrived and and phony are matters of opinion. But I've never gotten the inconsistent part about him? Why? Because sometimes he gets angry but not always? Opinions are negated and inconsequential in the presence of example and evidence. And Cena's character, ad-nauseam, has many examples that have been mentioned countless times. And he's inconsistent in that his character does not exhibit proper, realistic, or even logical reactions or corresponding emotions to similar events/tragedies/obstacles. If he was a real person, he'd be labeled as severely bi-polar. He makes no sense. He's simply a terribly written avatar for writers who want to shoe-horn in unfunny, worthless and story-destroying comedy, or to justify without exposition the narrative they want told -- not the one that makes sense or is the natural progression. He's basically a blank slate WWE fills in, however, whenever, they see fit, logic and reason be damned. no, no opinions aren't negated because there's not enough evidence to conclusively prove anything. WHo the hell are you to say what the proper emotional reaction to something is? I mean as far as I'm concerned the Rock and Steve Austin almost never showed proper emotional reaction to a damn thing.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 16, 2014 6:44:40 GMT -5
- Cena mocks his enemy with comedy photoshops ("LOL, that Cena is hilarious. Nothing bothers him...hahahahah!")
- Cena then gets serious and promises to take his enemy to hell and back ("Oh wait....I guess he is bothered by things....oh dear")
- Cena is the underdog who must fight against the odds ("Wow....I hope he can overcome the obstacles ahead of him)
- Cena is the standard bearer and all change must get past him first ("Oh....I thought he was the underdog.....So...he's the establishment and the embodiment of the status quo now?")
- Cena stands for Hustle, Loyalty and Respect "(Yay! This man is a hero, and role model to children!")
- Cena wrestles an exhausted Rey Mysterio and kisses his friend's girlfriend "(Sounds like an asshole to be perfectly honest")
Inconsistent.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 6:53:59 GMT -5
Opinions are negated and inconsequential in the presence of example and evidence. And Cena's character, ad-nauseam, has many examples that have been mentioned countless times. And he's inconsistent in that his character does not exhibit proper, realistic, or even logical reactions or corresponding emotions to similar events/tragedies/obstacles. If he was a real person, he'd be labeled as severely bi-polar. He makes no sense. He's simply a terribly written avatar for writers who want to shoe-horn in unfunny, worthless and story-destroying comedy, or to justify without exposition the narrative they want told -- not the one that makes sense or is the natural progression. He's basically a blank slate WWE fills in, however, whenever, they see fit, logic and reason be damned. no, no opinions aren't negated because there's not enough evidence to conclusively prove anything. WHo the hell are you to say what the proper emotional reaction to something is? I mean as far as I'm concerned the Rock and Steve Austin almost never showed proper emotional reaction to a damn thing. Yes, they are. Prove all the examples of his writing inconsistencies are in fact consistent, and you will win the debate. The burden is on you to disprove it and give reasons as to why. All the examples ever given by hundreds on here are pretty cut and dry, but I'd love to see it, and would applaud you if you could indeed pull off that miracle. (with actual reason, not traditional mrjl self-created fake head canon or illogical emotional response because you WANT it to be that way, rather than constructing a reasonable and plausible explanation that will prove to others that you are indeed correct, and not just in denial, obsessively clinging to your strange beliefs and preferences). And the proper emotional reaction is reacting consistently to the things you've reacted to before. If Cena has always been nonchalant, it, while still being intelligence insulting, would at least be a consistent trait. But he flip flops. Constantly. Nonsensically. He gets FURIOUS~! at things of little consequence, then undersells things he just the previous week put over as life altering and life changing events of ultimate magnitude. It's the very definition of inconsistent writing, because it's being scripted that way. They know it's contradictory, yet they do it anyway. It's absurd.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 16, 2014 7:02:43 GMT -5
no, no opinions aren't negated because there's not enough evidence to conclusively prove anything. WHo the hell are you to say what the proper emotional reaction to something is? I mean as far as I'm concerned the Rock and Steve Austin almost never showed proper emotional reaction to a damn thing. Yes, they are. Prove all the examples of his writing inconsistencies are in fact consistent, and you will win the debate. The burden is on you to disprove it and give reasons as to why. All the examples ever given by hundreds on here are pretty cut and dry, but I'd love to see it, and would applaud you if you could indeed pull off that miracle. (with actual reason, not traditional mrjl self-created fake head canon or illogical emotional response because you WANT it to be that way, rather than constructing a reasonable and plausible explanation that will prove to others that you are indeed correct, and not just in denial, obsessively clinging to your strange beliefs and preferences). And the proper emotional reaction is reacting consistently to the things you've reacted to before. If Cena has always been nonchalant, it, while still being intelligence insulting, would at least be a consistent trait. But he flip flops. Constantly. Nonsensically. He gets FURIOUS~! at things of little consequence, then undersells things he just the previous week put over as life altering and life changing events of ultimate magnitude. It's the very definition of inconsistent writing, because it's being scripted that way. They know it's contradictory, yet they do it anyway. It's absurd. WHo are you to put the burden of anything on me? You've never proven anything. You don't get to decide what matters to certain people, so you don't get to decide what is of little consequence
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 7:05:47 GMT -5
Yes, they are. Prove all the examples of his writing inconsistencies are in fact consistent, and you will win the debate. The burden is on you to disprove it and give reasons as to why. All the examples ever given by hundreds on here are pretty cut and dry, but I'd love to see it, and would applaud you if you could indeed pull off that miracle. (with actual reason, not traditional mrjl self-created fake head canon or illogical emotional response because you WANT it to be that way, rather than constructing a reasonable and plausible explanation that will prove to others that you are indeed correct, and not just in denial, obsessively clinging to your strange beliefs and preferences). And the proper emotional reaction is reacting consistently to the things you've reacted to before. If Cena has always been nonchalant, it, while still being intelligence insulting, would at least be a consistent trait. But he flip flops. Constantly. Nonsensically. He gets FURIOUS~! at things of little consequence, then undersells things he just the previous week put over as life altering and life changing events of ultimate magnitude. It's the very definition of inconsistent writing, because it's being scripted that way. They know it's contradictory, yet they do it anyway. It's absurd. WHo are you to put the burden of anything on me? You've never proven anything. You don't get to decide what matters to certain people, so you don't get to decide what is of little consequence You're the one claiming the character is not inconsistent when in a post above, HitGirl was kind enough to name a bunch of them. Thre burden IS most definitely on you since you're the one casting doubt. Prove everyone wrong. And I'll submit and apologize. It's that simple.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 16, 2014 7:09:21 GMT -5
are comedy photoshops any stupider than battle raps? Nobody complained when he was trying to be edgy with his humor.
And I don't believe there was a lot of complaint the Rock and Steve Austin sang a duet and then started brawling.
This is what they did with Hulk Hogan
an "exhausted Rey Mysterio?" The previous week Rey had wrestled twice in a tourney and was preparing to wrestle a third time with no complaint.
why is wrestling three matches one week okay but two the next terrible? And Eve kissed him. If Zack had a brain he'd have been buddying up to Cena after that and Eve would have been no where around during the Team Teddy vs Team Johnny match
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 16, 2014 7:20:50 GMT -5
Battle raps fit into a character, ie: that of being a rapper.
Comedy photoshops are something you'd see on an episode of "The Soup".
That's a rare moment of absurdity. Like "put the bunny down" in Con Air. If it happened too often, it would be a legitimate cause for complaint.
No. Hogan was the superhero who would vanquish evil, often reluctantly. Not the supposedly plucky underdog
That's not the point. Cena is the issue, not Mysterio. Mysterio's character is of a small guy with a big heart. Cena's character is supposed to be a moral bulwark.
And Cena enthusiastically kissed her right back
OK, now you're writing your own fan-fic version of WWE
I'm talking about the actual material broadcast worldwide.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 7:20:55 GMT -5
are comedy photoshops any stupider than battle raps? Nobody complained when he was trying to be edgy with his humor. And I don't believe there was a lot of complaint the Rock and Steve Austin sang a duet and then started brawling. This is what they did with Hulk Hogan an "exhausted Rey Mysterio?" The previous week Rey had wrestled twice in a tourney and was preparing to wrestle a third time with no complaint. why is wrestling three matches one week okay but two the next terrible? And Eve kissed him. If Zack had a brain he'd have been buddying up to Cena after that and Eve would have been no where around during the Team Teddy vs Team Johnny match So, you've basically proven that WWE is also inconsistent with other acts. That's like defending OJ and having your defense being that other football players abused their wives. It doesn't make the initial claim any less valid. And they Rey thing? Ya, he wrestled twice the previous week in a tournament, as he was prepared to do. The burden of character inconsistency though falls on Cena being an asshole for challenging the guy the next week, the same night he won the title, in a tournament he wasn't even a part of, rather than doing the "good guy" "loyalty" and "respect" thing and letting Rey have at least a week to prepare. It was a hypocritical dick move for a guy presented as being a moral beacon. And Eve did kiss him, but he didn't pull away -- they embraced and he went with it and made out with her. He was a bad friend. And the next week, he slut shamed the woman, when he himself was just as responsible. Again: dickhead hiding behind the fake mantra of loyalty and respect. Back to he drawing board, mrjl.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 16, 2014 7:36:19 GMT -5
I don't think the photoshop promo has ever been good. This was up there with Cena's ramblih Star Wars promo as among his absolute corniest.
Also about his consistency, remember how furious Cena got with Del Rio for using in his Money in the Bank on Punk? What the hell was that about? Why wasn't he frothing at the mouth in a similar way towards Orton last year? I don't think he ever mentioned it in their last feud.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 9:07:04 GMT -5
Opinions are negated and inconsequential in the presence of example and evidence. And Cena's character, ad-nauseam, has many examples that have been mentioned countless times. And he's inconsistent in that his character does not exhibit proper, realistic, or even logical reactions or corresponding emotions to similar events/tragedies/obstacles. If he was a real person, he'd be labeled as severely bi-polar. He makes no sense. He's simply a terribly written avatar for writers who want to shoe-horn in unfunny, worthless and story-destroying comedy, or to justify without exposition the narrative they want told -- not the one that makes sense or is the natural progression. He's basically a blank slate WWE fills in, however, whenever, they see fit, logic and reason be damned. no, no opinions aren't negated because there's not enough evidence to conclusively prove anything. WHo the hell are you to say what the proper emotional reaction to something is? I mean as far as I'm concerned the Rock and Steve Austin almost never showed proper emotional reaction to a damn thing. You two have calmed down a bit but let's stop with the "Who the hell are you" comments. You can argue a point and get emotional without sniping at each other.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 9:53:57 GMT -5
no, no opinions aren't negated because there's not enough evidence to conclusively prove anything. WHo the hell are you to say what the proper emotional reaction to something is? I mean as far as I'm concerned the Rock and Steve Austin almost never showed proper emotional reaction to a damn thing. You two have calmed down a bit but let's stop with the "Who the hell are you" comments. You can argue a point and get emotional without sniping at each other. I wasn't offended by his phrasing. It had little to do with my statement and accomplished nothing in countering anything I said. It's not a personal gripe to me, but one of logic. I simply want him to prove WHY he thinks Cena's character is not inconsistent. Not his personal views and wants to justify it to fit his own constructed narrative. But actual constructive, reasonable, logical proof that debunks the stance and vindicates the character. That's it. That is, as always, the crux of our differences. I state something. He disagrees. I (or someone else) provide examples, and he does not provide a lick of logical proof to negate or dispute it, yet continues to argue from a flawed and beaten base anyway. The truth is, the whole issue and argument(s) could have been avoided had he simply said he doesn't care that Cena is inconsistent and that he just enjoys the character as is. That is at least a subjective opinion that cannot be challenged or bested. Anything else has been countered many times in different threads by many people. Yet, the cycle begins again. And again. And again.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 16, 2014 9:58:31 GMT -5
I don't think the photoshop promo has ever been good. This was up there with Cena's ramblih Star Wars promo as among his absolute corniest. Also about his consistency, remember how furious Cena got with Del Rio for using in his Money in the Bank on Punk? What the hell was that about? Why wasn't he frothing at the mouth in a similar way towards Orton last year? I don't think he ever mentioned it in their last feud. The weirdest one wasn't even Del Rio, but a while before that when he just came out and wrecked the holy bejesus out of Jack Swagger for no apparent reason whatsoever. It wouldn't take much to square the circle with Cena and make his character make at least some amount of sense, but they'll never go the direction they'd have to go (ie : showing him start to crack under the pressure of always having to be "everything to everyone"), because it would prove those that call him a phony (even if "phony" is somewhat harsh in its connotation, in this context) correct. WWE has been having Cena pull the "everything to everyone" act for the longest time now, and even if it's who Cena wants to be (even in his outside the ring life), it's not a persona that resonates with people in any way, because outside a very controlled environment like pro wrestling (and to an extent, even inside), it's just not a natural human response. So even if this is the sort of person Cena wants to be, even if in his own eyes, it's not 'fake' or 'phony', it's still an affectation. A never letting his guard down and letting anyone see past his emotional/mental defenses. A soulless automaton with nothing beyond the show.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Apr 16, 2014 10:06:17 GMT -5
I wish I could trust the writers and say maybe the goal is for Cena to try all of his tricks, and nothing ends up working with the Wyatts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 11:05:47 GMT -5
- Cena mocks his enemy with comedy photoshops ("LOL, that Cena is hilarious. Nothing bothers him...hahahahah!") - Cena then gets serious and promises to take his enemy to hell and back ("Oh wait....I guess he is bothered by things....oh dear") - Cena is the underdog who must fight against the odds ("Wow....I hope he can overcome the obstacles ahead of him) - Cena is the standard bearer and all change must get past him first ("Oh....I thought he was the underdog.....So...he's the establishment and the embodiment of the status quo now?") - Cena stands for Hustle, Loyalty and Respect "(Yay! This man is a hero, and role model to children!") - Cena wrestles an exhausted Rey Mysterio and kisses his friend's girlfriend "(Sounds like an asshole to be perfectly honest") Inconsistent. 100% agree. What's even more perplexing is that the only thing about his character thats consistent is the fact that he is completely inconsistent as a character. ArmyRapper? UnderdogStandardBearer? Respect the voice of the WWE Universe, but who cares because the future goes through me! I mean, if he flip flopped between heel/face as often as Big Show it would at least make sense in terms of that dynamic, but utlimately it feels like their refusal to change his persona AT ALL is what causes this virtually non compos mentis character. Any relation to any emotionally active human being living or dead is strictly coincidental.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 16, 2014 11:42:03 GMT -5
The only time anything related to Cena would make any sense, is if he took a bad fall over the top rope, and when he got up, his right arm was missing, and the shoulder stump would have wires and sparks coming out of it and Cena looks at the camera, opens his mouth and says "Seven-Nine-One-Four....Technical Errorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....." in an electronically distorted voice, before being attended to by technicians.
See, it turns out that he IS a "prototype". WWE tried to develop a fully functional android to be their perfect flagbearer. It would explain why he follows any orders robotically without any hesitation and why his injuries "heal" so quickly. That's why he's inconsistent, because questioning his actions would be beyond the limits of his programming.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,201
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Apr 16, 2014 11:42:55 GMT -5
It's more having Michael Cole snickering away in the background I found more annoying. But yeah the whole bad Photoshop thing is just stupid at this point, Just rolled my eyes more than anything else. I'm just glad they had Bray Wyatt no sell it. With that said I kind of like that Cena is able to take cheap shots at himself aswell with the whole "push" line
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 16, 2014 11:57:56 GMT -5
The only time anything related to Cena would make any sense, is if he took a bad fall over the top rope, and when he got up, his right arm was missing, and the shoulder stump would have wires and sparks coming out of it and Cena looks at the camera, opens his mouth and says "Seven-Nine-One-Four....Technical Errorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....." in an electronically distorted voice, before being attended to by technicians. See, it turns out that he IS a "prototype". WWE tried to develop a fully functional android to be their perfect flagbearer. It would explain why he follows any orders robotically without any hesitation and why his injuries "heal" so quickly. That's why he's inconsistent, because questioning his actions would be beyond the limits of his programming. Something like that, though I'd say not quite. Cena definitely is "The Prototype", and never stopped being such. He's meant to be the fusion of everything (even when two or more of those things are at odds with each other) that is the supposed 'ideal' WWE Standard Bearer. -He's the Workout Warrrior whose trained his whole life for this (HHH). -He's the Lantern Jawed Marine (Slaughter). -He's the Indomitable Superhero (Hogan). -He's yet somehow still the Underdog who has to overcome the odds (Bret). -He's the corny jokester (Rock). -He's bad photoshop man (Jericho) -He's the one who stands up to The Man (Austin). -He's Mr. Feats of Strength (Luger). And he's buried himself so deep in all of that, that nobody will ever see the man inside the machine.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 12:02:46 GMT -5
You two have calmed down a bit but let's stop with the "Who the hell are you" comments. You can argue a point and get emotional without sniping at each other. I wasn't offended by his phrasing. It had little to do with my statement and accomplished nothing in countering anything I said. It's not a personal gripe to me, but one of logic. I simply want him to prove WHY he thinks Cena's character is not inconsistent. Not his personal views and wants to justify it to fit his own constructed narrative. But actual constructive, reasonable, logical proof that debunks the stance and vindicates the character. That's it. That is, as always, the crux of our differences. I state something. He disagrees. I (or someone else) provide examples, and he does not provide a lick of logical proof to negate or dispute it, yet continues to argue from a flawed and beaten base anyway. The truth is, the whole issue and argument(s) could have been avoided had he simply said he doesn't care that Cena is inconsistent and that he just enjoys the character as is. That is at least a subjective opinion that cannot be challenged or bested. Anything else has been countered many times in different threads by many people. Yet, the cycle begins again. And again. And again. Understandable. You can argue your points. I just want to note it before anyone says something stupid. It hasn't reached that point. You are arguing the logic and not the person and I whole-heartedly agree.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 16, 2014 12:18:27 GMT -5
The only time anything related to Cena would make any sense, is if he took a bad fall over the top rope, and when he got up, his right arm was missing, and the shoulder stump would have wires and sparks coming out of it and Cena looks at the camera, opens his mouth and says "Seven-Nine-One-Four....Technical Errorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....." in an electronically distorted voice, before being attended to by technicians. See, it turns out that he IS a "prototype". WWE tried to develop a fully functional android to be their perfect flagbearer. It would explain why he follows any orders robotically without any hesitation and why his injuries "heal" so quickly. That's why he's inconsistent, because questioning his actions would be beyond the limits of his programming.
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