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Post by creepytennis on Apr 22, 2014 5:58:09 GMT -5
For the benefit of some I'll explain why EY / Magnus is more of a draw with the belt on EY. BTW I agree the match isn't *much* of a draw either way.
With Magnus going in as champ, nobody would expect EY to win. It's a joke match. EY going in as champ gives him a bit of credibility. The angle becomes "Can the underdog hold onto the belt?". Put it this way: With the belt on Magnus, the result (Magnus retains by cheating) is very predictable. With the belt on EY, the result becomes quite a lot less predictable.
I wasn't saying this is the greatest angle in the history of wrestling. I'm just saying it's not an intentional rip-off of D-Bry. It's TNA trying to quickly build a credible main event for an uncomfortably imminent PPV, by hotshotting the belt onto a great worker with a credibility issue.
Also, if EY keeps putting in defences as good as his Monster's Ball against Abyss last week, he very quickly *will* become a credible champion.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 22, 2014 9:07:44 GMT -5
For the benefit of some I'll explain why EY / Magnus is more of a draw with the belt on EY. BTW I agree the match isn't *much* of a draw either way. With Magnus going in as champ, nobody would expect EY to win. It's a joke match. EY going in as champ gives him a bit of credibility. The angle becomes "Can the underdog hold onto the belt?". Put it this way: With the belt on Magnus, the result (Magnus retains by cheating) is very predictable. With the belt on EY, the result becomes quite a lot less predictable. I wasn't saying this is the greatest angle in the history of wrestling. I'm just saying it's not an intentional rip-off of D-Bry. It's TNA trying to quickly build a credible main event for an uncomfortably imminent PPV, by hotshotting the belt onto a great worker with a credibility issue. Also, if EY keeps putting in defences as good as his Monster's Ball against Abyss last week, he very quickly *will* become a credible champion. No one expected EY to beat Magnus a couple of weeks ago for the title but it happened. In a match designed to finally give Magnus his first win on his own, he couldn't do it. So he proved he was a joke. So the long time joke wrestler beat the joke champion no strings attached. TNA was trying to make Magnus a champion who got the talent to win with his own but rather take shortcuts. What we got was a guy who could barely win with major interference in his title matches who was asked to win a match without any advantage and failed miserably against the wrestler on the lowest rung on the ladder. And apparently the tv audience feels the same about EY still being a joke even with the title because ratings free-falled for last week's Impact.
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Post by creepytennis on Apr 22, 2014 10:25:43 GMT -5
No one expected EY to beat Magnus a couple of weeks ago for the title but it happened. In a match designed to finally give Magnus his first win on his own, he couldn't do it. So he proved he was a joke. So the long time joke wrestler beat the joke champion no strings attached. TNA was trying to make Magnus a champion who got the talent to win with his own but rather take shortcuts. What we got was a guy who could barely win with major interference in his title matches who was asked to win a match without any advantage and failed miserably against the wrestler on the lowest rung on the ladder. And apparently the tv audience feels the same about EY still being a joke even with the title because ratings free-falled for last week's Impact. 1) Your first point doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The fact that EY did beat Magnus on Impact doesn't change the fact that had they gone into Sacrifice with the strap on Magnus, an EY / Magnus match would have looked like a routine heel screwjob title defence. 2) Your interpretation of Magnus' and EY's characters is your own. I would contest it isn't TNA's. Magnus wasn't booked as "a champion who got the talent to win with his own but rather take shortcuts". He was booked as a cheating, weak champion who you're supposed to think is pathetic and hate. If you don't like that it's fine, but if TNA wanted Magnus to be a stronger champion they'd have booked him as such. What was stopping them? 3) Ratings were within Impact's standard window of 1.0 - 1.4 million. It'll be news when TNA is above or below that consistently for a few months. Ratings certainly didn't "free fall". Nothing TNA do ever seems to get them consistently outside 1.0 - 1.4 million. 4) EY was not on the "lowest rung on the ladder". He was in a championship match a few weeks ago. He had clearly been pushed as a more serious competitor for a few weeks before he won the title. I agree he hadn't been elevated for long enough yet, but he was certainly being elevated before he won the title. None of this changes my point, which is that putting the title on EY was about salvaging a main event for Sacrifice rather than pointlessly ripping off D-Bry.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 22, 2014 10:44:45 GMT -5
No one expected EY to beat Magnus a couple of weeks ago for the title but it happened. In a match designed to finally give Magnus his first win on his own, he couldn't do it. So he proved he was a joke. So the long time joke wrestler beat the joke champion no strings attached. TNA was trying to make Magnus a champion who got the talent to win with his own but rather take shortcuts. What we got was a guy who could barely win with major interference in his title matches who was asked to win a match without any advantage and failed miserably against the wrestler on the lowest rung on the ladder. And apparently the tv audience feels the same about EY still being a joke even with the title because ratings free-falled for last week's Impact. 1) Your first point doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The fact that EY did beat Magnus on Impact doesn't change the fact that had they gone into Sacrifice with the strap on Magnus, an EY / Magnus match would have looked like a routine heel screwjob title defence. 2) Your interpretation of Magnus' and EY's characters is your own. I would contest it isn't TNA's. Magnus wasn't booked as "a champion who got the talent to win with his own but rather take shortcuts". He was booked as a cheating, weak champion who you're supposed to think is pathetic and hate. If you don't like that it's fine, but if TNA wanted Magnus to be a stronger champion they'd have booked him as such. What was stopping them? 3) Ratings were within Impact's standard window of 1.0 - 1.4 million. It'll be news when TNA is above or below that consistently for a few months. Ratings certainly didn't "free fall". Nothing TNA do ever seems to get them consistently outside 1.0 - 1.4 million. 4) EY was not on the "lowest rung on the ladder". He was in a championship match a few weeks ago. He had clearly been pushed as a more serious competitor for a few weeks before he won the title. I agree he hadn't been elevated for long enough yet, but he was certainly being elevated before he won the title. None of this changes my point, which is that putting the title on EY was about salvaging a main event for Sacrifice rather than pointlessly ripping off D-Bry. I dropped talk about Daniel Bryan to judge Magnus vs EY own their own merit since people don't want to admit to similarities in narrative. Who wants to watch a weak champion? Chickenshit heel is one thing. Heel who cheats and takes shortcuts is another. Barry Horowitz with a world title is box office poison. 2 weeks ago, Impact had some of the highest tv ratings in a while. Last week, the audience tuned out. Apparently, they didn't like what they saw and decided to take their viewership elsewhere. It could be a one week deal or it could be long term. Which is not good when TNA is trying to convince SPIKE to renew Impact. Cops has higher ratings than Impact on regularly basis and cost much less money to air. EY being in one championship match doesn't undo the years of being a comedy jobber. No one is going to buy into Dewey Barnes being a world title contender because he was in a Fatal 4 for the TNA title. Same goes for EY. There's a reason why last week TNA put on a full court press on trying to give Eric credibility. Because they know people are having a very hard time buying into him suddenly being a world champion. And the main event of Sacrifice wouldn't need salvaging if TNA prepared better. Before you say Samoa Joe not being there affected the show, EY was pencilled in to becoming the champion to create synergy for EY's fishing show long before Joe took a sabbatical.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
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Post by Sparkybob on Apr 22, 2014 13:37:00 GMT -5
There is a fine line between chicken-shit heel that draws and a chicken-shit heel that doesn't draw. Bradshaw for all the love he gets in retrospect,he didn't draw money on top. There is only so many times people want to spend 40 bucks to see a main event with a guy who wrestles less than stellar matches and does a screw job finish at the end.
I'm not even going to say Magnus was as good as JBL because at least Jibble was able to build up some in ring credibility. He went toe to toe with great wrestlers like Eddie Guerrero/Taker/Kurt Angle for the majority of the match and only cheated at the end. That is a pretty big distinction than what Magnus' reign was where he got interference at the start of matches (Like the Sting/Styles matches. At least fans bought that Bradshaw can lose the belt due to his over confidence in the ring while with Magnus, fans were just thinking well he will just send a bunch of goons to attack his opponent at the start of the match.
I haven't watch TNA lately, but I think Magnus hasn't had long matches to show people he's a good wrestler and convince folks he's a good threat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 14:00:40 GMT -5
For the benefit of some I'll explain why EY / Magnus is more of a draw with the belt on EY. BTW I agree the match isn't *much* of a draw either way. With Magnus going in as champ, nobody would expect EY to win. It's a joke match. EY going in as champ gives him a bit of credibility. The angle becomes "Can the underdog hold onto the belt?". Put it this way: With the belt on Magnus, the result (Magnus retains by cheating) is very predictable. With the belt on EY, the result becomes quite a lot less predictable. I wasn't saying this is the greatest angle in the history of wrestling. I'm just saying it's not an intentional rip-off of D-Bry. It's TNA trying to quickly build a credible main event for an uncomfortably imminent PPV, by hotshotting the belt onto a great worker with a credibility issue. Also, if EY keeps putting in defences as good as his Monster's Ball against Abyss last week, he very quickly *will* become a credible champion. "Can the underdog hold onto the belt?" Eric Young wrestled earlier in the night, had an injured arm, and Magnus cheated, and Eric Young still won the match. Eric Young isn't the underdog in this situation, Magnus is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 14:17:58 GMT -5
Didn't Dixie post an image of EY as champion with a "Yes" hashtag?
I haven't bothered examining this, but considering how lazy this sounds, I was right to compare TNA to a half-drunken bottle of Shasta.
And this has nothing to do with originality or timing, but merely the fact that there has to be an aura of insincerity around this.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 22, 2014 14:30:55 GMT -5
Didn't Dixie post an image of EY as champion with a "Yes" hashtag?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 14:39:20 GMT -5
Didn't Dixie post an image of EY as champion with a "Yes" hashtag? I'm actually fairly certain a local Orlando drive-in owns the ridiculous amount of space between Eric's hairline and his eyes. I saw Winter Soldier playing on it last weekend.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 22, 2014 15:34:02 GMT -5
I'm expecting TNA to debut Ryan Nemeth as ZigZag to complete the transformation to WCW 2000.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Apr 22, 2014 17:37:56 GMT -5
I'm expecting TNA to debut Ryan Nemeth as ZigZag to complete the transformation to WCW 2000. Nah, first he'd have to be Caddy, the Drill Team member, then toss it off in a worked shoot.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 22, 2014 17:50:02 GMT -5
I'm expecting TNA to debut Ryan Nemeth as ZigZag to complete the transformation to WCW 2000. Nah, first he'd have to be Caddy, the Drill Team member, then toss it off in a worked shoot. Then he will go by his real name, Hugh P. Enis.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 22, 2014 21:23:37 GMT -5
I like Eric Young but, yeah, Dave's hitting the nail on the head here. just a moronic decision all around. it's like they learned nothing when they gave it to Chris Sabin out of nowhere.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Apr 22, 2014 22:49:33 GMT -5
I just read the whole thread and what struck me as odd was people listing a bunch of reasons why it's a Bryan knockoff, followed by others saying "so what if they both have beards!" It's not even about the beard. It's much more than that.
But even if you forget about that, it's still awful. Who would want to see EY and Magnus as a PPV main event? Magnus already sucked because he couldn't beat anybody without oodles of shenanigans and then he faces the lowest guy on the totem pole who never wins. And he still lost to the guy who never wins after that guy was hurt and wrestled two matches. Your main event is two guys who suck doing battle.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Apr 22, 2014 23:42:41 GMT -5
I will f***ing die if he defends against Abyss at Sacrifice. I don't even watch TNA anymore, but I would do a hearty Steve Austin belly laugh if this happens lol You know it's coming. It's like they're daring people to take shots at them.
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Post by JTG Fan on Apr 23, 2014 18:56:23 GMT -5
You know it just dawned on me how utterly retarded it is that Magnus nearly won the BFG series, beat Sting at Bound for Glory and won the World Title tournament by beating Samoa Joe and Bobby Roode cleanly before needing help in the finals to defeat Jeff Hardy, and after that point Magnus became completely unable to win any match without 10 guys running in during the first two minutes. There's booking a cowardly heel champion and then there's booking a guy to be a schlub who can't win a f***ing match, and with TNA it was the latter.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Apr 23, 2014 19:04:00 GMT -5
You know it just dawned on me how utterly retarded it is that Magnus nearly won the BFG series, beat Sting at Bound for Glory and won the World Title tournament by beating Samoa Joe and Bobby Roode cleanly before needing help in the finals to defeat Jeff Hardy, and after that point Magnus became completely unable to win any match without 10 guys running in during the first two minutes. There's booking a cowardly heel champion and then there's booking a guy to be a schlub who can't win a f***ing match, and with TNA it was the latter. Well, the idea was supposed to be that Magnus is fully capable of winning all of his matches, but the fact that he kept coming up short when the title was at stake eventually led him to take the easy road to the title. Unfortunately, I cannot explain why he seemed to lose any sort of competence as soon as he touched the title. I guess the idea is that he got too complacent with having all that backup, but they did it in such a way that it made for the least compelling television possible.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on Apr 23, 2014 19:16:50 GMT -5
Eric Young isn't Daniel Bryan. He's Santino.
The wheels of Daniel Bryan in the main event were set in motion months before his Summerslam victory against Cena. Everything was booked to make Bryan not only a sympathetic character in the eyes of the fans due to the Authority's attempts to crush him, but also a legimitate threat to anyone across the ring from him with all those wins accumulating over almost everyone. The fans believed he was deserving of being the champ.
Eric Young's title reign was built over the course of what...a month? A guy who was involved in more unfunny comedy sketches than a Second City improv student. EY being champ feels more like TNA tried to shock people by giving them something unexpected. Problem is, they already did that. With Sabin. Last year.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 23, 2014 19:23:28 GMT -5
Didn't Dixie post an image of EY as champion with a "Yes" hashtag? I get that she's trying to come off as meta and evil, but what it really looks like is copping to just being a rip-off. She couldn't have meant that, right?
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Apr 23, 2014 20:14:41 GMT -5
Pfft, Dave just made that all up. People really pay money for that?
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