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Post by HMARK Center on May 20, 2014 8:56:54 GMT -5
I thought the plots made perfect sense. They weren't good scripts mind you, but good and making sense don't need to go hand-in-hand. Yea that goes with my theory how Lucas became too cold and tech-driven when he wrote the prequels and as such while it made sense on the page, they probably were not the sort of the stuff that would make good movies to watch. I do get frustrated thinking about some of the ideas in the prequels that could've been fleshed out and made so much more interesting with a better script, better direction, etc. For example, I actually really liked the idea of the Jedi being too high and mighty for their own good, warrior-monks locked away in their giant tower at the center of the galaxy growing increasingly out of touch with the realities that most people in the galaxy faced. Yoda and Windu only barely touch on this in Episode III, mentioning how the current Sith Lord is blocking their ability to sense him and that their "connection to the Force" is weaker than it should be, an admission that they've lost their way. Following through on that would give Yoda a really fascinating arc: we have him flipping and lightsaber dueling in Episode II, but then have that lead to him recognizing that he, and the whole Order, has put too much faith in the the politics and law enforcement side of being Jedi (make relying on midi-chlorians a part of this), made up a bunch of silly "no marriage" rules, separating children from their families at a young age, and have stopped having a genuine connection to the "living Force", which would have Yoda exiling himself to Dagobah to rediscover that connection. Then there's the whole Count Dooku thing. When I first saw Episode II, I was actually really excited at the notion that Dooku was a Jedi-gone-dark who was in the right; that the Jedi Order was blind to a Sith Lord leading the Republic, and that Dooku would have to go outside the Order and start an entire war to combat Palpatine. His methods would be wrong, but his aims would be entirely justified; if Qui-Gon had been made to look more like a "rogue Jedi" in Episode I (SHOW us, Lucas, don't tell), it would create a fascinating dynamic where Dooku could truly try to get Obi-Wan to see things his way, which could trigger the falling out between Obi-Wan and Anakin, who'd be more loyal to Palpatine. Instead, they just had Christopher Lee come in and play a generic villain, which was a criminal misuse of his talent. So yeah, even with the ridiculous "trade route disagreements" set ups, there WERE cool ideas there. The ideas just never got off the ground and were completely ruined by an awful script and direction. |
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Post by Cyno on May 20, 2014 10:41:03 GMT -5
The Clone Wars series shows what can happen when you combine the universe of the prequels with character-driven writing. It ends up being pretty good for the most part, even though it had its low points, like any episode involving Padme or Jar-Jar. Season Six's (and the series) finale has Yoda doing just that: going on a journey to discover the secrets of Force Ghosts and the Living Force.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on May 20, 2014 12:12:35 GMT -5
Reading this thread has given me two ideas on how they should have handled the Separatist movement, Clone wars and all that jazz:
First Film:The original Episode I never happened. The story starts with the early plot to take over the Republic, the Separatist movement is headed by a Jedi-gone rogue (Count Dooku, or hell even Qui-Gon) who everybody believes to be a traitorous sith but at the end its revealed that he did what he did because he knows there's a sith within the republic that the other Jedi don't know about and that they dismissed his theories early on. The conflict between Obi-Wan and Anakin start here, with Anakin siding with the Republic and Obi-Wan believing the separatists might ahve a point
Second Film: The clones are an army raised by the separatists to combat the republic, unknowingly Qui-Gon/Dooku is actually helping Palpatine gain more and more power by doing this, as it gives him a reason to make the republic more military dependent, the whole films is basically the war taking its toll on everybody and there's also stuff about Anakin and Obi-Wan I guess.
Third film: Pretty much the same as the original only better written. The Jedi are wiped out by Anakin/Vader, The clones defeated by the newly reformed empire and the remaining separatists are forced into hiding, later reforming into the Rebellion.
Not the best but hell, that's my idea.
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Post by benstudd on May 22, 2014 5:36:00 GMT -5
Yea that goes with my theory how Lucas became too cold and tech-driven when he wrote the prequels and as such while it made sense on the page, they probably were not the sort of the stuff that would make good movies to watch. I do get frustrated thinking about some of the ideas in the prequels that could've been fleshed out and made so much more interesting with a better script, better direction, etc. For example, I actually really liked the idea of the Jedi being too high and mighty for their own good, warrior-monks locked away in their giant tower at the center of the galaxy growing increasingly out of touch with the realities that most people in the galaxy faced. Yoda and Windu only barely touch on this in Episode III, mentioning how the current Sith Lord is blocking their ability to sense him and that their "connection to the Force" is weaker than it should be, an admission that they've lost their way. Following through on that would give Yoda a really fascinating arc: we have him flipping and lightsaber dueling in Episode II, but then have that lead to him recognizing that he, and the whole Order, has put too much faith in the the politics and law enforcement side of being Jedi (make relying on midi-chlorians a part of this), made up a bunch of silly "no marriage" rules, separating children from their families at a young age, and have stopped having a genuine connection to the "living Force", which would have Yoda exiling himself to Dagobah to rediscover that connection. Then there's the whole Count Dooku thing. When I first saw Episode II, I was actually really excited at the notion that Dooku was a Jedi-gone-dark who was in the right; that the Jedi Order was blind to a Sith Lord leading the Republic, and that Dooku would have to go outside the Order and start an entire war to combat Palpatine. His methods would be wrong, but his aims would be entirely justified; if Qui-Gon had been made to look more like a "rogue Jedi" in Episode I (SHOW us, Lucas, don't tell), it would create a fascinating dynamic where Dooku could truly try to get Obi-Wan to see things his way, which could trigger the falling out between Obi-Wan and Anakin, who'd be more loyal to Palpatine. Instead, they just had Christopher Lee come in and play a generic villain, which was a criminal misuse of his talent. So yeah, even with the ridiculous "trade route disagreements" set ups, there WERE cool ideas there. The ideas just never got off the ground and were completely ruined by an awful script and direction. Agreed. They didn't go far enough in the way they the Jedi had become out-of-touch. Show how they essentialy are responsible for heir own demise. There something there to explore. I guess Lucas saw them in a too saintly way, he liked them too much to show them as being wrong. That goes with Anakin rebelling against them being more "organic" than what we got. A big reason why he comes off as a whiny brat is because we're not sure what he's mad about. They should have shown the Jedi being so off the mark so that Anakin becomes a voice of reason and we pull for him. Instead we get a guy that whines for nothing and then he kills kids just so he can be dark enough to have the power to save his wife from dying in childbirth. Felt such a copout to me. It was a "fanfic gimmick fantasy". Now I know we all love the original flicks and Lucas was responsible for it but this was not written but someone that has a mature mind. Then yea Lee was so misused in the movie. Seems like he was just there cause he was a favorite of Lucas as a kid. Your idea would have added a lot to the story and at the same time give him a cool juicy part to play. |
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Post by benstudd on May 22, 2014 5:47:22 GMT -5
Reading this thread has given me two ideas on how they should have handled the Separatist movement, Clone wars and all that jazz: First Film:The original Episode I never happened. The story starts with the early plot to take over the Republic, the Separatist movement is headed by a Jedi-gone rogue (Count Dooku, or hell even Qui-Gon) who everybody believes to be a traitorous sith but at the end its revealed that he did what he did because he knows there's a sith within the republic that the other Jedi don't know about and that they dismissed his theories early on. The conflict between Obi-Wan and Anakin start here, with Anakin siding with the Republic and Obi-Wan believing the separatists might ahve a point Second Film: The clones are an army raised by the separatists to combat the republic, unknowingly Qui-Gon/Dooku is actually helping Palpatine gain more and more power by doing this, as it gives him a reason to make the republic more military dependent, the whole films is basically the war taking its toll on everybody and there's also stuff about Anakin and Obi-Wan I guess. Third film: Pretty much the same as the original only better written. The Jedi are wiped out by Anakin/Vader, The clones defeated by the newly reformed empire and the remaining separatists are forced into hiding, later reforming into the Rebellion. Not the best but hell, that's my idea. If it were me, add to that, I would not even use clones. Just have Dooku start the Separatist movement cause he feels that the Jedi have lost their ways and there may be Sith Lords in the Republic. Then the Sith use the Republic, turning it into a more war-like organization. And at a crucial point, I would have Palpatine reveal himself to Dooko and kill him. Although i'm not sure where and when this would happen. |
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on May 22, 2014 6:16:28 GMT -5
I grew up on the Original Trilogy and nearly walked out of Phantom Menace after the first 15 minutes with the whole Jar Jar and underwater city stuff. I kept watching and by the end of the movie couldn't wait for the next. Attack of the Clones kept me intrigued throughout and Revenge of the Sith is my favorite of the franchise. Please don't retcon the Prequels.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on May 22, 2014 8:11:43 GMT -5
My main issue with the prequels was how utterly boring the Jedi were. People showing no emotion is boring. Emotion is fun.
We should have seen Samuel L Jackson doing what he does best. Yelling, getting worked up, acting angry and showing his charisma. Not been sat wisely in a chair calmly discussing politics. Even when he confronted Palpatine he showed no emotion. It was dull.
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