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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jun 1, 2014 22:33:09 GMT -5
The problem isn't really so much Cena. The problem is WWE's entire insistence that "only the main event matters" and booking everyone based on their potential as a top guy. Everyone comes in with a big time push, but once they've hit that high point of a program with Cena, anything else is a big step down afterwards (regardless of whether Cena goes over or not) and thus it looks like they've been "buried". WWE needs to reevaluate how it showcases its entire roster. This is it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 22:33:12 GMT -5
Can Cena actually sell that Bray gave him all that he can handle and he just managed to beat him or will he come out and give another cornball promo Monday? Cena put him over pretty huge in the post show presser. He does that with everyone. That shit usually doesn't matter at all.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
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Post by Chip on Jun 1, 2014 22:33:57 GMT -5
Please no. That would just lead to a 4th PPV match of this, when the feud started at Elimination Chamber. Rumble. Started at the Rumble though WWE tries to ignore that. True, I usually forget about that seeing as they seemed to delay it a bit to get Wyatts/Shield in. It was barely acknowledged on RAW the following weeks for reasons I'll never quite understand.
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Post by modestgenius on Jun 1, 2014 22:54:22 GMT -5
Bray will get the rub just wrestling Cena, doesn't need to win. Look at Sandow and Ziggler. Ziggler and Sandow's individual falls from grace have nothing to do with Cena and are more due to poor follow up. What can you do with people who lose to Cena other than give them weaker guys to beat? And why even care then?
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Post by greenhelmet on Jun 1, 2014 22:56:00 GMT -5
I understand that everybody is entitled to their opinions and likes & dislikes but I think alot of people might enjoy the shows more if they didn't feel the need to constantly nitpick and overthink every little detail.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 1, 2014 22:58:44 GMT -5
Ziggler and Sandow's individual falls from grace have nothing to do with Cena and are more due to poor follow up. What can you do with people who lose to Cena other than give them weaker guys to beat? And why even care then? You actually give them things to do instead of letting them wander aimlessly or jobbing them to anything with a pulse.
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gbo86
Mephisto
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Post by gbo86 on Jun 1, 2014 23:05:42 GMT -5
I think saying Bray's credibility is over is obviously hyperbolic. Having said that, can you really BLAME people for their paranoia when we've seen so many promising storylines/characters relegated to the ash heap after facing Super Cena? Nexus had me won back over to WWE until that fell apart. The Wyatts are a big part of winning me back, and their matches with the Shield have been excellent, but yeah, having seen what Cena feuds do to potential big stars, I'm nervous about Bray. He's one of the most refreshing characters they've had, the storyline with Cena was legendary for a time, and it just feels like they've gone back into cookie cutter mode. Why do the heels have to be cowardly? I know they hate having Cena lose to anyone cleanly, but I really felt like Bray's "win" at Extreme Rules was hollow because of how little he could do without assistance from Harper and Rowan.
Even if Cena ended up going over in this feud, which I think would be fine, it would have been so much better had Bray beaten him cleanly at least once, but preferably two or three times. Establish one of your potential monster heels as an actual MONSTER. Not a cookie cutter villain who depends on blind luck and the presence of his lackeys to pick up a victory. The Wyatts came out of their feud with the Shield looking dominant. I'm worried they'll come out of this one looking like just another group of hapless heels.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 1, 2014 23:13:09 GMT -5
Harper and Rowan are clearly shifting their focus to The Usos and the Tag Team titles, and if Bray is not somehow involved in either the Money in The Bank ladder match or the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, I will be extremely shocked
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 23:13:55 GMT -5
The fact that WWE obviously likes Bray, and the fact that he damn sure has the talent to recover, is the only reason I'm not more pissed off with this whole thing. Because this match, and indeed this whole feud, not only did jack shit to benefit Wyatt in any way whatsoever, but actually made him look less credible.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 1, 2014 23:14:11 GMT -5
I'd say no, because I find the idea that a man's credibility hinges on a single win or loss to be unfairly harsh AND the fact that Cena won by "put heavy object in the way" as opposed to knockout.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jun 1, 2014 23:15:35 GMT -5
I'd say no, because I find the idea that a man's credibility hinges on a single win or loss to be unfairly harsh AND the fact that Cena won by "put heavy object in the way" as opposed to knockout. For all we know, Bray could've gotten up from that AA without that production box blocking his path.
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Post by Ash Kingston on Jun 2, 2014 1:13:06 GMT -5
I'm... not entirely sure if people are surprised that Cena won. It's a Last Man Standing match... I think he's won all but one of those. The only way it'd have been more obvious would have been if he was in an "I Quit" match.
Not that him winning was necessarily a good thing, mind you. Just that I'm not entirely surprised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 1:16:08 GMT -5
I don't think the match results particularly mattered in this feud.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 2, 2014 1:21:57 GMT -5
Bray will get the rub just wrestling Cena, doesn't need to win. Look at Sandow and Ziggler. And Brock. Oh...
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Post by celticjobber on Jun 2, 2014 1:34:13 GMT -5
I loved the match (though I won't go as far as Meltzer and call it a match of the year candidate), and I don't see how losing hurts Bray at all. He looked strong throughout the match even with losing at the end.
I'm just glad the Cena/Bray feud seems to be over.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
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Post by nisidhe on Jun 2, 2014 1:37:23 GMT -5
I also think Cena pretty much violated the spirit of the match. If a heel would have done the same thing trapping a guy under a box would be seen as a dastardly deed. And I think this is the point of Bray Wyatt's continued feud with John Cena. Where many of us saw the finish as yet another case of cenawinslol, there is a method to the madness, I think, in why the match ended the way it did. We have a face wrestler resorting to heel tactics to eke out a win against a heel whose sole aim so far has been to be proven right - that John Cena is not the man we thought we knew and does not deserve our respect or praise. It's a slow burn feud but it would seem that the endgame is what many of us have wanted for years - a heel John Cena. It may require the burn to continue until Summerslam or even Survivor Series, but I suspect that each of Cena's future wins will feel more and more tainted while John tries harder and increasingly in vain to justify what he does to win. Bray, on the other hand, does not seem to care about the outcomes - he revels in the compromises in ethics and fair play John Cena makes. It will take time and care to do this, but this might be the only way in which a John Cena heel turn can be done without shocking the shit out of merch sales and other metrics for WWE's success.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Jun 2, 2014 3:44:05 GMT -5
People compare Cena to Superman/Batman but the funny thing is Superman/Batman often look weak in their "Feuds". Cena doesn't, He can't sell a feud for shit. People Rag on Hogan but he was amazing at selling his opponent as a big threat, take this for example www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTZvrV2I8Pw&index=21&list=WL. Cena might have that dejected look on his face then cuts a cornball promo 10 mins later that completely undermines all that. Maybe some of the blame should go to "(UN)Creative" but Cena has some say in his stuff .
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Post by audiencewatching on Jun 2, 2014 3:44:26 GMT -5
Take a look @ Mankinds first few feuds, its very similar.
Cause distress to a solid over wrestler, have a rough feud with a few wins but ultimately a final loss.
Its fine.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jun 2, 2014 3:50:19 GMT -5
Take a look @ Mankinds first few feuds, its very similar. Cause distress to a solid over wrestler, have a rough feud with a few wins but ultimately a final loss. Its fine. Big difference Mankind looked like a legitimate threat to Undertaker, Wyatt has always looked like a putz.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 4:32:22 GMT -5
I was bummed at the ending of the match because I thought the spot was a set-up for Cena to be standing on top of the other randomly big box and Bray to punch his way through like some sort of Jason Voorhees-like monster (Which made sense to me following Bray just shrugging off the steel steps being flung directly between his eyes). Then they cut to him basically sleeping and the realization set in that the match was over. I thought the same thing, Bray was going to pop out of there like something out of Carrie. That says a lot about Bray Wyatt's character, most guys I would've just known it was over, but with Bray I expected him to do some crazy shit, and it would've made perfect sense for him.
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