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Post by gnr123 on Jun 2, 2014 16:09:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't see how losing to John Cena is going to hinder or ruin the guy's career. I mean, it's obvious WWE see's a lot in him, and the fact he was feuding with Cena so early in his career supports that. He's got a shit-ton of potential to be a huge star for the company. Losing to John Cena this early in his career won't hinder him, especially since he's got at least another decade in the company. Undertaker lost to Hogan in 1991, does anyone remember that? Nope. Bray Wyatt is a star, and losing to John Cena this early in his career isn't going to ruin him.
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Snowman
Dennis Stamp
The "Called His Mama at WrestleMania" Guy
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Post by Snowman on Jun 2, 2014 16:18:04 GMT -5
I'm with foley on this one:
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
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Post by Chip on Jun 2, 2014 16:42:14 GMT -5
I was reading that earlier and Foley's last sentence scares the shit out of me.
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Post by Ken: The Hero of WWE on Jun 2, 2014 17:02:42 GMT -5
I honestly really liked the Last Man Standing Match and think Bray will continue to be a good heel in the WWE. BTW, without weapons I kinda think Bray Wyatt is a pretty bad wrestler. Great promo, bad wrestling.
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Johnny
Don Corleone
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Post by Johnny on Jun 2, 2014 18:27:27 GMT -5
No. This is the match that convinces Vince to put the title on him this year.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jun 2, 2014 18:40:26 GMT -5
For every Ziggler/Sandow, there is an Edge. There is no set rule on this. Losing to Cena in a feud should be expected for up and coming superstars. It all depends on how they were booked in the feud and following. While I disagree with the finish at Extreme Rules, I think Bray has gotten the upper hand in many instances and held his own, especially at Mania and Payback. He lost in a position no man could have gotten up from last night. Now they need to guide him following this. With the push to Money in the Bank, I suspect he will be placed there instead of getting an actual feud. Two things should happen though. The story should be pushed as Cena winning but with Bray still being dangerous and needing a giant object to keep him down (thanks Cole for pointing out how he should have lost when the ref was distracted...). And they need to not give him a Del-Rio esque "wheel of aggression" and have him beat jobbers over and over. Give him a real feud with someone for a reason. Have him win the feud to prepare him for a title shot. Losing to Cena in no way ended his credibility. That has ebbs and flows (look at Bryan as an example of that). Now Bray needs to step up with WWE giving proper backing. If he has that, he will succeed because he is that damn good (end HHH voice).
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Jun 2, 2014 19:30:41 GMT -5
Given that the fans are cheering for the heel, and the heel is a "cult leader", the brainwashing comments make complete sense. I disagree. Bray's never said that he's a cult leader - that's been implied by the announcers. You can make the same arguement for the Cenation. claiming Bray is not obviously a cult leader is ridiculous
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 19:41:24 GMT -5
I disagree. Bray's never said that he's a cult leader - that's been implied by the announcers. You can make the same arguement for the Cenation. claiming Bray is not obviously a cult leader is ridiculous And claiming Cena ISN'T a cult leader in his own right is equally ridiculous.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jun 2, 2014 19:44:33 GMT -5
claiming Bray is not obviously a cult leader is ridiculous And claiming Cena ISN'T a cult leader in his own right is equally ridiculous. If Cena is one then every athlete that interacts with his fans is one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 19:47:50 GMT -5
And claiming Cena ISN'T a cult leader in his own right is equally ridiculous. If Cena is one then every athlete that interacts with his fans is one. Come on....there's no way you're going to accuse Xavier Woods of being a cult leader....or having fans! I just mean Bray Wyatt has done significantly less to curry the fans favor than Cena by a long shot.
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Post by joeiscool on Jun 2, 2014 19:53:31 GMT -5
claiming Bray is not obviously a cult leader is ridiculous And claiming Cena ISN'T a cult leader in his own right is equally ridiculous. I mean Bray's gimmick is a cult leader. Guy calls himself God, he's looking for followers, call him self a false prophet, and talks about bringing the end of the world so it can be remade in his image. I don't think it can get much clearer unless he starts telling people to drink kool aid, or starts sleeping with his followers wives.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 2, 2014 19:54:58 GMT -5
Bray is a cult leader, but they also have been pushing the whole 'brainwashing' narrative hard during the Cena feud.
But at least they're not calling Cena "controversial", so there's been a reprieve from that.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 2, 2014 20:00:58 GMT -5
Bray is a cult leader, but they also have been pushing the whole 'brainwashing' narrative hard during the Cena feud. But at least they're not calling Cena "controversial", so there's been a reprieve from that. Bray has no followers. Only brothers and sisters in the name of cause. His introduction vignette told me so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 20:01:09 GMT -5
And claiming Cena ISN'T a cult leader in his own right is equally ridiculous. I mean Bray's gimmick is a cult leader. Guy calls himself God, he's looking for followers, call him self a false prophet, and talks about bringing the end of the world so it can be remade in his image. I don't think it can get much clearer unless he starts telling people to drink kool aid, or starts sleeping with his followers wives. So a guy is a bit poetical with his words and suddenly he's a cult leader? Cena sells miniature versions of his clothing for his "Cenation" to wear (purposefully brightly colored to appeal to children). PREACHES about the tenants of Hustle, Loyalty, & Respect. Claims he has the power to turn invisible (if we're taking everything literally). He also talks an awful lot about how he knows whats best for everyone and a LOT about how important his "legacy" is. Even the WAY Cena talks is like a real, non-cartoony, cult leader. He always chooses his words VERY carefully - look at that post-PPV press conference. I mean, Bray Wyatt comes across as a off-kilter dude, but IRL i'd point at a guy like Cena as a cult leader WELL before Wyatt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 20:26:47 GMT -5
Good job WWE on not having Wyatt be mentioned thus far at all. Way to put over someone!
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
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Post by Chip on Jun 2, 2014 20:53:16 GMT -5
And claiming Cena ISN'T a cult leader in his own right is equally ridiculous. If Cena is one then every athlete that interacts with his fans is one. Cena really does fit a cult leader in a lot of regards though. He's always talking about what he believes in, talking about Hustle, Loyalty and Respect. That people should believe and not give up in him. He's always ambiguous with it though, he never really takes a hard stance on any subject seemingly letting people come up with their own interpretation so as not to offend or turn away potential followers. His face and his "teachings" are all over his merch that young, easily influenced children wear. Cenation can easily be identified as a cult.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 2, 2014 21:01:59 GMT -5
I was brought up with orthodox Hulkamania.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 21:31:04 GMT -5
If Cena is one then every athlete that interacts with his fans is one. Cena really does fit a cult leader in a lot of regards though. He's always talking about what he believes in, talking about Hustle, Loyalty and Respect. That people should believe and not give up in him. He's always ambiguous with it though, he never really takes a hard stance on any subject seemingly letting people come up with their own interpretation so as not to offend or turn away potential followers. His face and his "teachings" are all over his merch that young, easily influenced children wear. Cenation can easily be identified as a cult. Also, cult leaders aren't so outwardly obvious about being cult leaders. They're usually much more guarded and sneaky and deceptive about whether or not they're even leaders.
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Post by angryfan on Jun 2, 2014 21:39:13 GMT -5
Cena really does fit a cult leader in a lot of regards though. He's always talking about what he believes in, talking about Hustle, Loyalty and Respect. That people should believe and not give up in him. He's always ambiguous with it though, he never really takes a hard stance on any subject seemingly letting people come up with their own interpretation so as not to offend or turn away potential followers. His face and his "teachings" are all over his merch that young, easily influenced children wear. Cenation can easily be identified as a cult. Also, cult leaders aren't so outwardly obvious about being cult leaders. They're usually much more guarded and sneaky and deceptive about whether or not they're even leaders. This is true. Manson, Jim Jones, Yaweh Ben Yaweh, David Koresh, none of them called themselves cult leaders, or even leaders. They were patriarchal, sure, but they were "helping", they were "sharing wisdom". Hugely off topic, I know, but I love studying cultists and to be frank, Bray is more akin to a Mansonian character while Cena is, weird to say maybe, a Pied Piper style character. Hogan was the same way, although not nearly as overt and blunt about it. Hogan was a "do the right thing" babyface, Cena is that with a little bit of Jake Roberts "I'm the only one you can trust" thrown in. They just refuse to acknowledge the latter part.
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kevin
El Dandy
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Post by kevin on Jun 2, 2014 21:41:18 GMT -5
Of course its not. Bray Wyatt is great and on the rise. Losing to Cena though disappointing was completely expected. I mean lets face it if Stone Cold had one more big match in him we know exactly What would happen in it {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Cena Wins. Bray is still very much an over and credible heel.
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