Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 4:48:55 GMT -5
I see it more as this is it for me finding John Cena entertaining.
I've gone from hating to respecting to even liking, now I'm at pure exhaustion. It's just tiring to watch him every week. sometimes he does an awesome job, sometimes he's way off the tone and takes away from things, sometimes he sells his opponents, sometimes he's smiling and making jokes, sometimes he's really REALLY mad about something random, other times he's not that mad about something he should be, etc...as a result, any feud he's in is extremely haphazard, and eventually, spoiler: he wins. Hell, Cena's the biggest heel in the company, for those reasons. Any heel he feuds with is undercut by that, Cena's getting all the heat so the heel gets cheered, so whatever morality play they're selling is completely thrown off. I could go on and on, and I already have.
Cena is better off without a program. I'd rather have him around the main event just having matches with random people. When he gets in a feud his flaws as a character are more apparent and he gets unbearable.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jun 2, 2014 5:04:57 GMT -5
Cena is better off without a program. I'd rather have him around the main event just having matches with random people. When he gets in a feud his flaws as a character are more apparent and he gets unbearable. I agree with you here as a Cena fan. In the past I've said that the best role for Cena would be as the new "one on one wit Da Undatakah" guy. Someone that the authority figures can throw heel jobbers (to the stars) at and they could either go for 10-15 minutes, or just have a 3 minute scuffle that ends with Cena hitting the Five Moves of Doom to pop the crowd.
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Post by audiencewatching on Jun 2, 2014 5:27:20 GMT -5
Take a look @ Mankinds first few feuds, its very similar. Cause distress to a solid over wrestler, have a rough feud with a few wins but ultimately a final loss. Its fine. Big difference Mankind looked like a legitimate threat to Undertaker, Wyatt has always looked like a putz. Not at all, hes got the better of Cena week in week out.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,631
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 2, 2014 5:56:31 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Bray considered this a victory.
He got Cena to willingly and repeatedly use weapons against him. Commentators said Cena hesitated doing so at their WrestleMania match (I haven't seen it)
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 2, 2014 6:40:55 GMT -5
Bray will be fine. Cena exists in his own canon. Beating him means nothing. Losing to him means nothing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 7:21:26 GMT -5
Big difference Mankind looked like a legitimate threat to Undertaker, Wyatt has always looked like a putz. Not at all, hes got the better of Cena week in week out. Mankind choked out the Undertaker with his finisher and beat him legitimately. Cena has fended off Wyatt and his family singlehandedly on numerous occasions, and his only loss to Wyatt came from being distracted by a 10-year-old child. Mankind beat up jobbers and his finisher was so deadly it made them foam at the mouth. Wyatt required interference to beat Jimmy Uso. There's a huge difference there in terms of presentation. Honestly though, I'm just glad this feud is done. Cena can go shit up someone else's program and the Wyatts can start to get rebuilt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 7:55:17 GMT -5
Vince has to have had more influence in booking recently.
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Post by twizzler on Jun 2, 2014 8:33:27 GMT -5
Bray isn't done at all, just because he lost to Cena. No one loses to Cena anyway. And now we don't have to hear that stupid whole world in his hands song anymore!
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Post by No Name is needed Bro Beans on Jun 2, 2014 8:39:41 GMT -5
Yep he'll be jobbing to torito in no time Bray vs Torito Mask vs Hawaiian shirt match
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Post by Flippity Floppity Floo on Jun 2, 2014 8:57:02 GMT -5
At least this feud is gonna be over, right? It started off really good, but they've honestly done all they can with it at this point since Cena's apparently never gonna lose a match clean to Bray.
Move them both on to new things.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,642
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Post by khali on Jun 2, 2014 9:00:47 GMT -5
Bray isn't over but I thought the whole feud was pretty well awful.
The first match was built around Cena's legacy being on the line, and the second one was that Bray's message would escape if he left the cage, which are both so over the top and cheesy. With the first match, we ended up with the infuriating WWE thing of "face wins clean, and they just keep feuding anyway." They did Bray no favors by having the cage match be awful, consisting of moment after moment where Cena had Wyatt beat but got screwed. And then Wyatt won in a comical manner.. From there, they drag the feud out another month, a month where nothing happens and the Usos wrestle the Wyatts on every show. And then in this match, which was good, they need to show that dean had the match won again, and Wyatt was saved. Why would you do that in a match where Cena is already winning?!
Wyatt didn't look particularly strong coming out of any of their matches, and actually came across the worst in the march he won. That's not the way it should work.
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Post by twizzler on Jun 2, 2014 9:09:51 GMT -5
It doesn't affect Bray being a heel at all, so what if he lost to Cena. I thought the match was just ok anyway and got tired of the feud long before this match
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 2, 2014 9:24:23 GMT -5
Not with loss to the standard bearer, of course not.
That said, they'll definitely have to do damage control on his character. He failed to convert Bryan, he failed w Cena...
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jun 2, 2014 9:51:25 GMT -5
I don't mind the end result... But what bothers me is I doubt this whole mind games has any bearing on Cena's character and that's a shame. The dude launched steel steps out if the ring and into Bray's head. In WWE Land, Bray should have been carted out and he should have amnesia while Bo Dallas converts him and Harper/Rowan lose it trying to bring him back. Everyone should be questioning Cena not only crossing the line, but obliterating it.
Instead we'll get his usual, "lol...u mad bro?" promo.
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Post by King Bebe on Jun 2, 2014 9:58:07 GMT -5
The match was great but of course they had to ruin it with that goofy ass finish.
Seriously, that finish made no one look good. Cena couldn't even beat Wyatt without blocking him from getting up? The match is supposed to be about beating your opponent so much that he CAN'T physically or mentally get up. I'm sick of Cena throwing people through cars and ambulances, and having these goofy "WOW SO CREATIVE" finishes.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 2, 2014 10:21:26 GMT -5
Guys like Bray are too deep and too complex to be involved in feuds with Cena because his character isn't permitted the kind of flexibility required for such feuds. Cena should only face monsters of the month. People like Rusev who are specifically designed to be the big bad for Cena to overcome. People who would naturally only have a short shelf life anyway.
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Post by Indifference Abounds on Jun 2, 2014 10:21:42 GMT -5
I feel as though this entire feud has been very confused in terms of what sort of message it's built around. The original 'mania match hinged around the idea that Bray would force out the monster that John Cena kept hidden behind his façade, and ultimately he failed and lost clean. Their cage match was built around the idea that it would let both men settle things in the ring without the interference of the Family but the whole match was filled with shenanigans and neither man seemed even vaguely interested in winning the match decisively by pinfall or submission. Now we have a Last Man Standing match to settle things which is once more plagued by interference and makes it very, very clear that Bray would have likely lost the match multiple times had the Family not served as a distraction, or literally picked him up off his back, and that ends with both men still very much conscious. The fact that Cena was content to win by humiliation rather than actually laying out his adversary doesn't exactly lend itself to the tone they've been going for either.
One undercurrent I've really quite liked liked behind the interaction between Cena and Wyatt is the sense that Cena will always win when he's fighting on his terms but that Bray is trying to change the game entirely and doesn't care at all about Cena's familiar approach. We've seen Wyatt shrug off a clean pinfall loss at the biggest event of the year as something unimportant, ignore or play-off Cena's attempts at 'comedy', turn a cage match designed to keep the Family out into an environment where Cena couldn't avoid them and now make it essentially impossible for himself to be be put down for the count ... but in the end he's still losing. Every single match PPV match between the pair has clearly shown that Cena deserves to win - he could've won the cage match a good five times over - and the only reason Bray can claim to be a threat at the end is because it honestly doesn't matter to him if Cena wins. That works in terms of the story, particularly when one considers their post-mania interaction, but it doesn't exactly make Wyatt look a credible threat if Cena is obviously the better man.
I very much agree with those who've posted before saying they thought the final spot in their match at Payback wasn't going to be the end. It really fits the general narrative they've been going for, and indeed the match type, that the only way Cena can hope to finally put down Bray Wyatt is to become that monster and do something truly brutal. The best part of that approach, in my opinion, is that Bray doesn't even have to come out victorious in their final encounter in order to 'win' because this feud was never truly about winning for him. If he can only make Cena question himself, and that image as the uncompromising superhero, then that's all the satisfaction he really needs to slink off towards his next target with the knowledge that he put one over the WWE's white knight. Bray Wyatt can find victory in defeat, but the bookers seem content to keep giving Cena outs that let him put away any thought of compromise ... unless we consider trapping Wyatt under a box compromise. There's still hope that things may move in that direction in a future encounter, assuming this feud will continue, but I really feel they missed an opportunity in trivialising a Last Man Standing match like this, particularly against a heel like Wyatt who is heavily built on image and mystique.
I'm sure Bray can still work as a credible heel but I keep coming out of all of his matches with the thought of "Look how many times Cena could have won that!" rather than "What is Cena going to have to do to beat Bray Wyatt?!". I realise that winning matches isn't key to Bray's credibility but at the same time it's difficult to watch this feud without getting the general impression that he's running into the classic SuperCena approach and ultimately failing to find any sort of traction. Instead of this feud being about Bray forcing Cena to change in order to overcome the odds, and actually appearing effective, it seems to have boiled down to Bray only having any kind of a chance when shenanigans are off the charts and Cena doesn't bring his own buddies as an equaliser. Instead of seeing the man forced to consider his legacy and just how far he's willing to go, we're simply being reminded that John Cena's legacy is Spoilers: Cena Wins.
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Post by slaughterama on Jun 2, 2014 10:27:22 GMT -5
Can Cena actually sell that Bray gave him all that he can handle and he just managed to beat him or will he come out and give another cornball promo Monday? Probably will get the latter. Cena will come out all smiles, talk about what a great time he had in Chicago last night, start hamming it up even more when he gets booed, and make a joke that he just saw the Wyatt Family cleaning poi out of their beards at a luau. Then Lena & Rusev will interrupt him, Cena will look concerned for 8 seconds then ask "Ludmilla" if Rusev ate Drago. He'll then become Patriot Cena and play the USA and military card to talk down Russia and Putin. Bray will be shown on "THE APP" later having a backstage singoff with Nikolai Volkoff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 10:28:30 GMT -5
I'll never understand how Cena losing a match will result in his legacy being diminished or tarnished. His legacy is never really on the line, so let stop pretending it is, WWE.
This entire storyline needed something more tangible to it.
On top of that, the audience factor has been really twisted.
The audience gets behind Bray Wyatt and WWE blantantly says they're just brainwashed sheep who need John Cena to save them from Bray's influence.
If they audiene get behind John Cena, WWE goes on and on about how much people love Cena.
I know this phrase gets thrown around a lot, but WWE is actually insulting their audience in this case. That's crazy to me. Like they're trying to bully fans into cheering Cena at this point by saying they're all brainwashed.
When they started up with that, this whole feud went from zero to stupid in a hurry.
"THE VOICE OF THE WWE UNIVERSE MATTERS.......unless you're cheering bray wyatt."
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Boomaga
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Evolve or Die.
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Post by Boomaga on Jun 2, 2014 10:31:03 GMT -5
The way I see it, didn't Cena become the monster that Bray always promised he was last night? I mean, he literally had to bury Bray under a production crate to beat him, plus this... At least, that's the way I see Bray spinning this. He lost the match, but won the moral victory he was looking for. Unlike Sandow and Ziggler, I think WWE sees enough value in Bray to keep his profile high, even if the wins and losses say he "lost" this feud.
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