Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 12:02:16 GMT -5
Above all other things with the divas, I have one request: Can they stop with the in-ring ho-yay? I want to see them WRESTLE, not awkwardly crawl over one another. Don't know whose call that is, or why it's being done. But the crowds aren't even into it, it's so gratuitous. I'm not sure what you're talking about? Examples? Did you watch Raw on Monday? It happened during the Paige/Natalya match. I felt embarrassed seeing that on my TV.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 20, 2014 12:03:05 GMT -5
The best way to book a Divas division is just like any other
1- Top talents 2- Mid-carders 3- Tag teams 4- Managers
The characters and angles should be no different to what men would be booked as and in, matches should be long enough to tell stories and ring psychology etc...
Using them as two minute filler pulling each others hair and playing bitchy personas will never work. Never has.
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:04:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you're talking about? Examples? Did you watch Raw on Monday? It happened during the Paige/Natalya match. I felt embarrassed seeing that on my TV. Isn't that part of Paige's character (mounting her opponent seductively and then headbutting them)? Or am I missing something?
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 20, 2014 12:04:17 GMT -5
That's why a lot of this diva stuff would be best left on "Total Divas" (is that still on the air?) and the better divas saved for RAW matches.
I blame Steph for a lot of this shit.
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:05:48 GMT -5
I'll tell you why the divas get so much hate. Ever seen a typical divas match? Punch, kick, slap, struggle on the mat, execute sloppy finisher. I want to see dominant women, women that are reminiscent of Rhonda Rousey and not glorified catfights. Though yes, there are SOME divas that can pull it off in the ring (Paige, Natty and AJ come to mind). And Alicia, Nikki, Summer, Layla, Naomi... I mean we aren't in 2011 anymore. The quality is much better these days.
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Captain2
Don Corleone
Big Daddy Cool
Posts: 1,990
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Post by Captain2 on Aug 20, 2014 12:05:52 GMT -5
You think Layla doesn't get enough credit? You've clearly never been to the Divas pics thread.
You'd think we were a bunch of kids at a John Cena appearance.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 12:07:47 GMT -5
Did you watch Raw on Monday? It happened during the Paige/Natalya match. I felt embarrassed seeing that on my TV. Isn't that part of Paige's character (mounting her opponent seductively and then headbutting them)? Or am I missing something? I thought her character was that she's a serious wrestler and that she's trying to get into AJ's head. The key word is "thought" because I honestly can't tell you with any certainty what they're going for with this. But it was lame.
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:09:48 GMT -5
Isn't that part of Paige's character (mounting her opponent seductively and then headbutting them)? Or am I missing something? I thought her character was that she's a serious wrestler and that she's trying to get into AJ's head. The key word is "thought" because I honestly can't tell you with any certainty what they're going for with this. But it was lame. Sorry but a serious wrestler isn't a character, lol. I don't know why it's lame, she is 22 she will have so much time to do the anti-diva shtick. This cuckoo, slightly lesbian/obsessed character is fun.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 20, 2014 12:09:51 GMT -5
I'll tell you why the divas get so much hate. Ever seen a typical divas match? Punch, kick, slap, struggle on the mat, execute sloppy finisher. I want to see dominant women, women that are reminiscent of Rhonda Rousey and not glorified catfights. Though yes, there are SOME divas that can pull it off in the ring (Paige, Natty and AJ come to mind). And Alicia, Nikki, Summer, Layla, Naomi... I mean we aren't in 2011 anymore. The quality is much better these days. That's YOUR opinion. I don't care about the Bellas or the others.
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:12:02 GMT -5
And Alicia, Nikki, Summer, Layla, Naomi... I mean we aren't in 2011 anymore. The quality is much better these days. That's YOUR opinion. I don't care about the Bellas or the others. Well I mean obviously it is my opinion.... you don't have to care for them to at least acknowledge they can wrestle well.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 20, 2014 12:12:42 GMT -5
That's why a lot of this diva stuff would be best left on "Total Divas" (is that still on the air?) and the better divas saved for RAW matches. I blame Steph for a lot of this shit. Stephanie has never understood that snide cattiness with women fighting over stupid trivial shit that E! viewers like will never translate to WWE wrestling-based programming. Their biggest female successes have been AJ and Lita (tomboys), Sable (pissed off woman treated badly by husband), and Trish (plucky girl who actually took the time to become a decent wrestler and had a self-assured confidence to her) and Mickie James (obsessed stalker). Even Stephanie herself got over as being a good girl gone bad and exploiting her new found power.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Aug 20, 2014 12:13:50 GMT -5
AJ and Paige get some praise due to their talent or at least their ability to hide their weaknesses. Or in the case of Paige, get a pass for being a terrible babyface because she's still young, but when she's given a second chance, she makes it work. Vince was right about Paige if those stories are correct. Now, she's a tremendous heel and her speaking ability has improved.
Naomi kinda got screwed over with the Brodus Clay valet gimmick and she couldn't wrestle more. She's the old cliche of the puppy with big paws. If you say did a series with Natalya and were like, you guys wrestle every night, she'd be a lot better.
In regards to the Bellas, some people aren't cut out for wrestling. And because they're so bad at acting, and so bad at wrestling, they can't fall back on anything to hide their negatives. AJ says herself she's not that great of a wrestler, but she has a great character and sells really well, that it hides her ring work, which is still decent, but she can hide any flaws because she's so talented in other ways.
Naomi isn't the best wrestler either, but she's very athletic, so she can hide that. The Bellas are all negatives.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 12:14:51 GMT -5
I thought her character was that she's a serious wrestler and that she's trying to get into AJ's head. The key word is "thought" because I honestly can't tell you with any certainty what they're going for with this. But it was lame. Sorry but a serious wrestler isn't a character, lol. I don't know why it's lame, she is 22 she will have so much time to do the anti-diva shtick. This cuckoo, slightly lesbian/obsessed character is fun. "Serious wrestler" is exactly what Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit played in the early-mid 2000's. Angle as a humorous version of that; Benoit as a very straightforward version of that archetype. Paige came in as someone who admired AJ's talents but wanted to be champion and when she lost the title and flipped out, booked under the guise of someone who doesn't do Total Divas or any of that other nonsense--all she wants is to be champion, that's it. A serious wrestler. And no, the tired old "crazy" is not fun. Not for me anyway. Almost everyone is "crazy" now. Alicia is crazy. AJ is crazy. Layla is crazy. Now Paige is crazy...why, exactly?
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 20, 2014 12:17:12 GMT -5
WWE should take heed of their own booking in the past.
The greatest female rivalry in their history was Sensational Sherri vs Miss Elizabeth, and they rarely interacted physically
So why was it good? Because of the personas and the story it told. One was the evil witch and the other was the sweet-natured princess
They never fought over stupid stuff. Like Cameron and Naomi. Why exactly did they fall out? Erm.....oh yeah it was because of.....uh.....hmm.
Story and characterisation is everything. Miss Elizabeth didn't even need mic time. She was able to convey her character via expressions and Disney eyes.
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:17:35 GMT -5
AJ and Paige get some praise due to their talent or at least their ability to hide their weaknesses. Or in the case of Paige, get a pass for being a terrible babyface because she's still young, but when she's given a second chance, she makes it work. Vince was right about Paige if those stories are correct. Now, she's a tremendous heel and her speaking ability has improved. Naomi kinda got screwed over with the Brodus Clay valet gimmick and she couldn't wrestle more. She's the old cliche of the puppy with big paws. If you say did a series with Natalya and were like, you guys wrestle every night, she'd be a lot better. In regards to the Bellas, some people aren't cut out for wrestling. And because they're so bad at acting, and so bad at wrestling, they can't fall back on anything to hide their negatives. AJ says herself she's not that great of a wrestler, but she has a great character and sells really well, that it hides her ring work, which is still decent, but she can hide any flaws because she's so talented in other ways. Naomi isn't the best wrestler either, but she's very athletic, so she can hide that. The Bellas are all negatives. How so? Nikki has improved tremendously in the ring and her segment this week was good for her first time with a mic in years. Brie is a more than solid wrestler. They're not all negatives by any means.
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Post by Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer on Aug 20, 2014 12:18:20 GMT -5
That's why a lot of this diva stuff would be best left on "Total Divas" (is that still on the air?) and the better divas saved for RAW matches. I blame Steph for a lot of this shit. Stephanie has never understood that snide cattiness with women fighting over stupid trivial shit that E! viewers like will never translate to WWE wrestling-based programming. Their biggest female successes have been AJ and Lita (tomboys), Sable (pissed off woman treated badly by husband), and Trish (plucky girl who actually took the time to become a decent wrestler and had a self-assured confidence to her) and Mickie James (obsessed stalker). Even Stephanie herself got over as being a good girl gone bad and exploiting her new found power. Not to mention Chyna, the fighting equal opportunist wrestling the guys that was over huge with many, including women in the audience. Just had to hear her theme music playing in 2000 and the crowd went off!
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:20:45 GMT -5
Sorry but a serious wrestler isn't a character, lol. I don't know why it's lame, she is 22 she will have so much time to do the anti-diva shtick. This cuckoo, slightly lesbian/obsessed character is fun. "Serious wrestler" is exactly what Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit played in the early-mid 2000's. Angle as a humorous version of that; Benoit as a very straightforward version of that archetype. Paige came in as someone who admired AJ's talents but wanted to be champion and when she lost the title and flipped out, booked under the guise of someone who doesn't do Total Divas or any of that other nonsense--all she wants is to be champion, that's it. A serious wrestler. And no, the tired old "crazy" is not fun. Not for me anyway. Almost everyone is "crazy" now. Alicia is crazy. AJ is crazy. Layla is crazy. Now Paige is crazy...why, exactly? Again, they had more to them than just a serious wrestler. Paige was actually the plucky underdog which was a role she wasn't very good at, at all IMO. How is Layla crazy? I think we all realize why AJ is still mentally unhinged and we haven't been given an explanation for Paige, but it's pretty easy to assume she played/plays these games to keep her title after AJ beat her for the belt.
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Bad Moon
Unicron
for reasons known only to the goblins that live in my brain
Posts: 3,091
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Post by Bad Moon on Aug 20, 2014 12:25:44 GMT -5
And they deserve it. I find it weird that out of all people in all of WWE , Nikki has the 2nd best lifting finisher (backbreaker thingy) just before BROCK F***ING LESNAR'S F5. Strike the lifting part, it's just a plain great finisher period. How are Cena's knees these days? I think he needs a replacement for that weaksauce fireman's throw.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 12:26:04 GMT -5
"Serious wrestler" is exactly what Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit played in the early-mid 2000's. Angle as a humorous version of that; Benoit as a very straightforward version of that archetype. Paige came in as someone who admired AJ's talents but wanted to be champion and when she lost the title and flipped out, booked under the guise of someone who doesn't do Total Divas or any of that other nonsense--all she wants is to be champion, that's it. A serious wrestler. And no, the tired old "crazy" is not fun. Not for me anyway. Almost everyone is "crazy" now. Alicia is crazy. AJ is crazy. Layla is crazy. Now Paige is crazy...why, exactly? Again, they had more to them than just a serious wrestler. Paige was actually the plucky underdog which was a role she wasn't very good at, at all IMO. How is Layla crazy? I think we all realize why AJ is still mentally unhinged and we haven't been given an explanation for Paige, but it's pretty easy to assume she played/plays these games to keep her title after AJ beat her for the belt. Of course they did, but that was still a character archetype central to both. Consummate professionals. Paige was clearly brought in to be that female type. She wasn't an unknown quantity. Her getting called up to the main roster was on the heels of stellar work in NXT where serious wrestling had been emphasized. Then she played the fluky underdog and now she's not. Like I said, I have no clue what they're actually going for with her. The way Paige has been booked has been simply terrible. Layla's matches are a running joke on here for the amount of groping and constantly taking advantage of the other women. Her "crazy" is akin to a sexual predator.
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1295
Mike the Goon
Posts: 34
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Post by 1295 on Aug 20, 2014 12:26:58 GMT -5
WWE should take heed of their own booking in the past. The greatest female rivalry in their history was Sensational Sherri vs Miss Elizabeth, and they rarely interacted physically So why was it good? Because of the personas and the story it told. One was the evil witch and the other was the sweet-natured princess They never fought over stupid stuff. Like Cameron and Naomi. Why exactly did they fall out? Erm.....oh yeah it was because of.....uh.....hmm. Story and characterisation is everything. Miss Elizabeth didn't even need mic time. She was able to convey her character via expressions and Disney eyes. I would say Trish/Lita was the best. Cam/Naomi had their falling out because Cameron kept developing a bigger head and they began showing tension a few weeks before. I don't think it needs a complex turn, especially when we had about three other diva storylines going on at that moment.
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