JCBaggee
Hank Scorpio
Writer, streamer. I used to write for CBR but then they fired everyone who cared about their writers
Posts: 6,787
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Post by JCBaggee on Aug 23, 2014 10:23:32 GMT -5
More and more, I'm sorta hoping for a 450 day reign by Roman. I can't do a year and a half of Roman Reigns' mumbling "I'm gonna beat everyone up" promos.
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Batman
Don Corleone
I am Batman.
Posts: 1,628
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Post by Batman on Aug 23, 2014 13:32:34 GMT -5
Reigns isn't good in the ring or on the mic. Hopefully he is out of the title picture until he actually gets there - IF he gets there.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 23, 2014 13:48:03 GMT -5
The lesson that WWE needs to learn is it is so much more productive to just show Reigns being cool and bad-ass, as opposed to the announcers and narrative constantly screaming to and brainwashing people that he is. (normal) People inherently hate being told what to do, what to like, or being manipulated. If something is awesome, it's awesome. They decide. They choose to identify. They don't need hard-sell convincing. If you have to openly fellate something and compensate, then there is flaws in it. People know when something is real, and when it is forced. That's why people prefer underdogs. They connect with them on a human, unconscious level, and relate to a plight of having a tougher road to travel. Only children or the severely emotionally stunted find complete alpha-male archetypes appealing. A quiet hero who just kicks ass CAN get over. But you add too much more to that soup and people stop liking the flavor. I could care either way whether someone's an alpha male badass or an underdog. For me, Reigns is way too obviously green to be pushed the way he is. There's nothing wrong with the commentators and booking trying to hard sell someone. I believe that the wrestlers should prove themselves to the office by impressing them with amazing performances, and when the fans get behind a wrestler, the machine should follow suit. "Forced pushes" should be given to performers who have the skills and abilities to back up the booking and to back up the commentators' words. Fellatio should not be given, it should be earned. Michael Cole and friends should be slurping on someone like Ambrose, who already has everything together and has the fans savoring his flavor, and I think most of us prefer the flavor of Ambrose's New England Clam Chowder over Reigns.
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Post by The Tee Why on Aug 23, 2014 13:56:57 GMT -5
I dont mind Reigns but the moments WWE puts together that shoves down the fans throats that are total "LOOK HOW BAD ASS HE IS! LOVE HIM!!" are a bit annoying.
I just dont like 'chosen ones' in wrestling
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Post by lildude8218 on Aug 23, 2014 13:58:26 GMT -5
so who is painting the picture of the title? the article didn't mention it at all
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,991
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 23, 2014 14:02:20 GMT -5
so who is painting the picture of the title? the article didn't mention it at all Nattie will.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 23, 2014 14:23:13 GMT -5
Again though, put personal preferences aside, whoever is more over to the majority should get the push to draw the most $.
Subjective skills or perceived lack are totally, totally irrelevant. It's a business.
Dean's awesome. And if the coming months he's getting much more of a reaction, then f*** yeah have him leapfrog Reigns. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Reigns here (hence my cutsie First Among Equals title I gave myself); but if someone has truly earned a spot ahead of him via being more over, then that takes precedence.
Personal biases though don't make someone "deserve" a spot anywhere.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 23, 2014 14:34:58 GMT -5
Also, the best example that belies the 'too green to push' thing is Goldberg.
He was greener than astroturf, only did a few high impact moves, and wasnt anything to speak of on the mic.
And it was the absolute right move to strap a rocket to him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 14:38:34 GMT -5
He needs 3 more moves/spots and an attire change.
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Post by wahoowah11 on Aug 23, 2014 14:54:40 GMT -5
I dont see a problem with him, I am enjoying his run so far. The shield made 3 uppercard acts that can all become main eventers in my opinion.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 23, 2014 15:20:55 GMT -5
Also, the best example that belies the 'too green to push' thing is Goldberg. He was greener than astroturf, only did a few high impact moves, and wasnt anything to speak of on the mic. And it was the absolute right move to strap a rocket to him. A Goldberg type of push would help Reigns. Goldberg started out in the lower card and worked his way up. He started with short squash matches that played to his strengths before working with the big time players. Reigns by comparison has been at the top of the card since day one, and they have basically pushed him into the deep end when they broke up The Shield. They should have temporarily put Roman back at the bottom and restarted him with a Goldberg style push so he could get acclimated into working singles matches. The typical WWE main event style match does not play to Roman's strengths at the moment
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 23, 2014 15:47:12 GMT -5
They were really selling 'Reigns is the future of this business' in that Shield documentary, weren't they? I don't know, I just don't really see it yet. He has a nice presence, and it works well for him as a big scary, silent badass. But that isn't a character who gets to be the face of the WWE. Not even the Undertaker ever got to be The Guy. Get Reigns a manager like Heyman, a good hype-man who could take him under his wing and give him a real tutorial on how to be a top guy, and I think the sky is the limit.
But it seems like they really want him to be The Rock 2. Even that documentary was highlighting their similarities (while carefully omitting Rock from the list of relatives). Samoan heritage, college football star, undrafted, gave the CFL a go, then dad got him into the WWE. I don't think it's doing Reigns any favours, because The Rock seemed to have an innate feel for every aspect of the art of professional wrestling, and I don't think Reigns does.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Aug 23, 2014 15:57:10 GMT -5
Which is the right thing to do. I for one welcome the idea of two unstoppable beasts going at it at WrestleMania. Wish Granted! SCSA is like, "do I really have to do this shit?"
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 23, 2014 16:48:39 GMT -5
Also, the best example that belies the 'too green to push' thing is Goldberg. He was greener than astroturf, only did a few high impact moves, and wasnt anything to speak of on the mic. And it was the absolute right move to strap a rocket to him. A Goldberg type of push would help Reigns. Goldberg started out in the lower card and worked his way up. He started with short squash matches that played to his strengths before working with the big time players. Reigns by comparison has been at the top of the card since day one, and they have basically pushed him into the deep end when they broke up The Shield. They should have temporarily put Roman back at the bottom and restarted him with a Goldberg style push so he could get acclimated into working singles matches. The typical WWE main event style match does not play to Roman's strengths at the moment Him being the powerhouse of the Shield was that push. De-pushes, especially for an over act is always a dumb idea. Look at Cesaro for the most glaring recent example.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 23, 2014 17:23:17 GMT -5
A Goldberg type of push would help Reigns. Goldberg started out in the lower card and worked his way up. He started with short squash matches that played to his strengths before working with the big time players. Reigns by comparison has been at the top of the card since day one, and they have basically pushed him into the deep end when they broke up The Shield. They should have temporarily put Roman back at the bottom and restarted him with a Goldberg style push so he could get acclimated into working singles matches. The typical WWE main event style match does not play to Roman's strengths at the moment Him being the powerhouse of the Shield was that push. De-pushes, especially for an over act is always a dumb idea. Look at Cesaro for the most glaring recent example. But Reigns barely worked any singles matches in the Shield. Ambrose and Rollins did all the heavy lifting and now without them, he's exposed because he has limited experience in a one on one environment. I hate throwing one of my faves under the bus, but look at Alex Riley to see what happens when someone has limited ring time before getting a sudden singles push, and he was given nowhere near the "Superman" treatment that Reigns is. What hurt Cesaro is that he's being jobbed out to anything with a pulse. Reigns wouldn't end up like Cesaro. My idea would be for Reigns to actually beat the guys at the lower end of the card and work his way up. Reigns wouldn't be losing to anyone. He'd have a badass win streak like Goldberg but without the albatross of being an "undefeated monster with nowhere to go but down when he loses". He can basically get the Sheamus/Del Rio treatment of beating midcarders, but with the difference between him and them is that there's an actual endgame to it as opposed to just building him up to feed him to someone else.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 23, 2014 17:28:52 GMT -5
They were really selling 'Reigns is the future of this business' in that Shield documentary, weren't they? I don't know, I just don't really see it yet. He has a nice presence, and it works well for him as a big scary, silent badass. But that isn't a character who gets to be the face of the WWE. Not even the Undertaker ever got to be The Guy. Get Reigns a manager like Heyman, a good hype-man who could take him under his wing and give him a real tutorial on how to be a top guy, and I think the sky is the limit. But it seems like they really want him to be The Rock 2. Even that documentary was highlighting their similarities (while carefully omitting Rock from the list of relatives). Samoan heritage, college football star, undrafted, gave the CFL a go, then dad got him into the WWE. I don't think it's doing Reigns any favours, because The Rock seemed to have an innate feel for every aspect of the art of professional wrestling, and I don't think Reigns does. I completely agree. Rock also had the benefit of working singles programs with vets like Austin and Triple H while they were still midcard talents. He wasn't immediately working big programs with former world champion main eventers, so he wasn't seen as being out of his league or overpushed. Reigns needs that same seasoning. People continuously go on about the IC Title needing to be elevated. Reigns is perfect for that job. The guy who should be in his current role is Cesaro, but they sabotaged his overness deliberately.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 23, 2014 17:35:21 GMT -5
Underdogs in wrestling are stupid though when it comes to a main event level talent. Once that guy wins the title, he should never be the underdog again. At least with Reigns he's protected enough to be looked at as the unstoppable face and thereby people paying to see if he's capable of keeping up his dominance, whereas anyone else beating Lesnar is nowhere near protected enough to be seen as unstoppable, and therefore their win may look weaker by comparison.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 23, 2014 19:42:35 GMT -5
They were really selling 'Reigns is the future of this business' in that Shield documentary, weren't they? I don't know, I just don't really see it yet. He has a nice presence, and it works well for him as a big scary, silent badass. But that isn't a character who gets to be the face of the WWE. Not even the Undertaker ever got to be The Guy. Get Reigns a manager like Heyman, a good hype-man who could take him under his wing and give him a real tutorial on how to be a top guy, and I think the sky is the limit. But it seems like they really want him to be The Rock 2. Even that documentary was highlighting their similarities (while carefully omitting Rock from the list of relatives). Samoan heritage, college football star, undrafted, gave the CFL a go, then dad got him into the WWE. I don't think it's doing Reigns any favours, because The Rock seemed to have an innate feel for every aspect of the art of professional wrestling, and I don't think Reigns does. Yeah. Reigns isn't the next Cena. At best he's the next Batista. A solid #2 face who can hold the title when the "The Guy" guy is either injured or preoccupied with a non title blood feud. He CAN be that because he's got a good look and can speak well on talk shows and the like, but they're taking that away from him with his presentation in the ring and wrestling style. It's like they can't decide whether they want him to be the monster powerhouse or the "All American Superhero" (I.e Cena/Bryan) so they want to have their cake and eat it too and have him be both.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 19:59:43 GMT -5
Reigns also doesn't have that "Everyman Workhorse" thing about him that guys like Bret, Austin and even Cena have. These guys look and act like regular people, they just happen to become THE GUY through circumstances. Bryan is one of these guys as well. Reigns looks to be closer to the "Diesel" prototype rather than that prototype. Ambrose fits the Everyman Workhorse model. Even Reigns said this in the documentary and given Ambrose's current style, it works in that favor as well.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 23, 2014 20:03:31 GMT -5
They were really selling 'Reigns is the future of this business' in that Shield documentary, weren't they? I don't know, I just don't really see it yet. He has a nice presence, and it works well for him as a big scary, silent badass. But that isn't a character who gets to be the face of the WWE. Not even the Undertaker ever got to be The Guy. Get Reigns a manager like Heyman, a good hype-man who could take him under his wing and give him a real tutorial on how to be a top guy, and I think the sky is the limit. But it seems like they really want him to be The Rock 2. Even that documentary was highlighting their similarities (while carefully omitting Rock from the list of relatives). Samoan heritage, college football star, undrafted, gave the CFL a go, then dad got him into the WWE. I don't think it's doing Reigns any favours, because The Rock seemed to have an innate feel for every aspect of the art of professional wrestling, and I don't think Reigns does. Yeah. Reigns isn't the next Cena. At best he's the next Batista. A solid #2 face who can hold the title when the "The Guy" guy is either injured or preoccupied with a non title blood feud. He CAN be that because he's got a good look and can speak well on talk shows and the like, but they're taking that away from him with his presentation in the ring and wrestling style. It's like they can't decide whether they want him to be the monster powerhouse or the "All American Superhero" (I.e Cena/Bryan) so they want to have their cake and eat it too and have him be both. He's a shorter Kevin Nash, is what he is.
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