FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,428
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 27, 2014 9:06:16 GMT -5
Jontron's great, but he's been the target of "SJW"'s it seems. I even saw someone deriding Egoraptor for being a homophobe because he wouldn't admit he was gay when they called him out as such on Twitter, despite the fact he's married. To a woman. It's stupid, but everything these days seems to root back to racism, homo,trans and various other phobias and other crap. Folks just look for stuff to complain about. And whilst Sarkeesian makes a few good points, I've found she manages to f*** it up usually and make me wonder why she bothers. You do realise that the JonTron situation erupted when someone very politely asked him not to use a term that is frequently used as a slur towards the disabled. He responded by directing the slur at them, because how dare anyone ask him not to use a slur he likes. Pretty nasty behaviour. By contrast, the other Game Grumps, when asked to put a warning on a video that contained talk about rape, apologised and added a warning, making things more pleasant for everybody. It's not like some SJW council decided "Right, we don't like this guy, let's attack him!" As for calling someone a homophobe for saying they're not gay, that's so ridiculous that it's almost certainly a troll. There's plenty of people (usually from 4chan and Reddit) who act like parodies of SJWs that people just lap up as genuine examples. (Oh, and hey, guess what, homophobia, racism, transphobia, etc. DO exist and HAVE existed for a long time, and do inform a lot of our media and society in general! This is just the first time that marginalised groups have enough of a voice without having to put themselves in danger! I'm sorry if it's inconvenient for you that people are sick and tired of discrimination, and like to try and change things where they can. It's not 'looking for stuff to complain about'. I'm not gleeful when I see people spreading biphobia, it's just impossible to avoid, and it's depressing. I'd honestly like a situation where I and everyone else can avoid it. Ain't gonna happen by pretending everything's hunky dory.)
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 27, 2014 9:12:05 GMT -5
Why is this even a question?
It's not just a yes, it's a "no f'n duh."
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,517
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 27, 2014 9:14:33 GMT -5
Of course, just like all journalists should. At the very least they can remember that they're meant to serve the game buying public not publishers and that their word carries a lot of power so they better be fair (to people and games). A lot of the climate is down to publishers and the way they allow people to review their games with embargoes, teams of PR, limited time with games etc I read an article recently about there being knowledge of video game companies paying people with YouTube channels to do the let's play videos/reviews and talk positively about the game regardless of whether it was good or not. Does that actually happen? I know there is a difference between one who plays games and films the footage and someone who writes for a website/magazine, but then again if they are both being paid, is there a difference? Yes. www.pcworld.com/article/2089245/microsoft-paying-youtube-personalities-for-positive-xbox-one-endorsements.htmlA lot of companies also pay people to make positive posts on forums, collectively it's all known as astroturfing.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Aug 27, 2014 9:15:58 GMT -5
Jontron's great, but he's been the target of "SJW"'s it seems. I even saw someone deriding Egoraptor for being a homophobe because he wouldn't admit he was gay when they called him out as such on Twitter, despite the fact he's married. To a woman. It's stupid, but everything these days seems to root back to racism, homo,trans and various other phobias and other crap. Folks just look for stuff to complain about. And whilst Sarkeesian makes a few good points, I've found she manages to f*** it up usually and make me wonder why she bothers. You do realise that the JonTron situation erupted when someone very politely asked him not to use a term that is frequently used as a slur towards the disabled. He responded by directing the slur at them, because how dare anyone ask him not to use a slur he likes. Pretty nasty behaviour. By contrast, the other Game Grumps, when asked to put a warning on a video that contained talk about rape, apologised and added a warning, making things more pleasant for everybody. It's not like some SJW council decided "Right, we don't like this guy, let's attack him!" As for calling someone a homophobe for saying they're not gay, that's so ridiculous that it's almost certainly a troll. There's plenty of people (usually from 4chan and Reddit) who act like parodies of SJWs that people just lap up as genuine examples. (Oh, and hey, guess what, homophobia, racism, transphobia, etc. DO exist and HAVE existed for a long time, and do inform a lot of our media and society in general! This is just the first time that marginalised groups have enough of a voice without having to put themselves in danger! I'm sorry if it's inconvenient for you that people are sick and tired of discrimination, and like to try and change things where they can. It's not 'looking for stuff to complain about'. I'm not gleeful when I see people spreading biphobia, it's just impossible to avoid, and it's depressing. I'd honestly like a situation where I and everyone else can avoid it. Ain't gonna happen by pretending everything's hunky dory.) I know he did that, and I don't support it. It's more the fact that people seemed to go through his back catalogue after that and pick those various things out. And I'm aware that they exist, but people are calling the most ridiculous things into question as having them, things that are innocent such as children's programs which have obviously not meant it in that way, but people feel the need to raise the pitchforks and start a huge thing over something that was in no way meant to offend said groups. I mean, I'm a supporter of LGBT rights and such, but I feel that people really devalue the cause by causing petty internet shitstorms over minor things.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,047
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 27, 2014 9:15:59 GMT -5
Why is this even a question? It's not just a yes, it's a "no f'n duh." It was a clumsy attempt to segue into talking about the 5 guys crap, with little interest in the initial question.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 27, 2014 10:07:09 GMT -5
I'll spare you all my sure to be popular thoughts on Quinn and the rest of the bulls*** team, and say that I really hate what gaming has turned into.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 10:09:28 GMT -5
All humans should act ethically.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 27, 2014 10:10:30 GMT -5
Also the wider online gaming community is pretty much morally repugnant. Case in point. They sprout shit like this all the time and expect to be taken seriously or treated like adults. I'm sorry, quick question, but when the bleeding hell did JonTron lose his freaking mind?I mean, holy shit, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Aug 27, 2014 12:24:44 GMT -5
Yes, yes they should. All journalists should. I can't believe it's even a question.
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Aug 27, 2014 12:38:45 GMT -5
Everyone involved in this whole debacle is a f***ing embarrassment. The gaming industry is becoming more carny than wrestling.
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Post by Ganon83 on Aug 27, 2014 12:57:49 GMT -5
Also the wider online gaming community is pretty much morally repugnant. Case in point. They sprout shit like this all the time and expect to be taken seriously or treated like adults. I'm sorry, quick question, but when the bleeding hell did JonTron lose his freaking mind?I mean, holy shit, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Takashi's Challenge I think drove him a little crazy
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jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
Nobody notices him; No, we noticed him
f*** Cancer
Posts: 33,594
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Post by jagilki on Aug 27, 2014 13:19:17 GMT -5
Christ.
Yes, Video Game "Journalists" should have ethics.
This other stuff...... Christ, this is why I like being in the parts of the internet where this shit doesn't happen.
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Post by bluemeii on Aug 27, 2014 13:31:06 GMT -5
Video games and the journalism that cover it are just like wrestling.
No one outside the community takes either seriously when it comes to either the product or the "journalism". The just go LOL Video games or LOL Wrestling.
Some people inside the community take it too god damn seriously to the point of fanatical obsession, damaging the "brand" to the general public as a whole. A large part of the whole LOL attitude towards the 2 is the thoughts and actions of people inside those communities to their own products.
edit : Honestly the question that has to be asked is, if their own niche audiences constantly question the morals and ethics (not to mention accuracy) of the journalism that covers it, why should anyone else take it seriously?
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 27, 2014 13:54:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry, quick question, but when the bleeding hell did JonTron lose his freaking mind?I mean, holy shit, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Takashi's Challenge I think drove him a little crazy Okay just woke up good thing this is still open. For the JonTron stuff, I really wish you guys would look into this a bit more, what is going on with him right now has nothing to do with what happened a little while ago. What he did now was speak out against this some what cult like mentality that is desperately trying to protect itself from critics, all he did was go on a podcast and talk about it. Since then he has been harassed and received death threats. Plus you do realize that JonTron is half Persian and has faced persecution in life, especially in a post 9/11 world. Also for the people attacking Zoe Quinn, that is bull crap but not what sites like 4chan and Reddit are really talking about, instead they are researching and documenting all the examples of hate and harassment from the so called nice people. If you would like I could post examples of them being just has if not more childish.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 27, 2014 14:02:35 GMT -5
JonTron made a pretty shitty antisemitic Holocaust joke so I lost any respect I had for him then.
As for the Zoe Quinn stuff, not touching it with a ten foot pole. The closest to anything nuanced I've seen is from TotalBiscuit and it's mostly because even he's like "I have no idea what's true and what's not BUT if this and this happened..." etc. I usually don't like TB, but I thought he came off as someone level-headed who didn't jump to conclusions. And video games "journalism" is a joke anyway.
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Post by Ganon83 on Aug 27, 2014 14:07:32 GMT -5
Takashi's Challenge I think drove him a little crazy Okay just woke up good thing this is still open. For the JonTron stuff, I really wish you guys would look into this a bit more, what is going on with him right now has nothing to do with what happened a little while ago. What he did now was speak out against this some what cult like mentality that is desperately trying to protect itself from critics, all he did was go on a podcast and talk about it. Since then he has been harassed and received death threats. Plus you do realize that JonTron is half Persian and has faced persecution in life, especially in a post 9/11 world. Also for the people attacking Zoe Quinn, that is bull crap but not what sites like 4chan and Reddit are really talking about, instead they are researching and documenting all the examples of hate and harassment from the so called nice people. If you would like I could post examples of them being just has if not more childish. .... Nah, I'm trying to stay out of all of this. I like Jontron too but really don't care about this situation. Although the idea that Jontron has gone insane because of Takashi's Challenge may have some merit
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 27, 2014 14:13:24 GMT -5
Anyway it does look like Kotaku has changed it policy some what, it appears that at least for now that their staff must disclose any relationships with developers.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Aug 27, 2014 14:52:27 GMT -5
Also the wider online gaming community is pretty much morally repugnant. Case in point. They sprout shit like this all the time and expect to be taken seriously or treated like adults. I'm sorry, quick question, but when the bleeding hell did JonTron lose his freaking mind?I mean, holy shit, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Well, when this was posted JonTron was in the middle of making a point that the kind of "social justice warriors" who claim to be preaching tolerance are doing anything but that by doing everything in their power to force their opinions onto others, preventing anyone else from expressing theirs, vilifying anyone who doesn't blindly agree with them and most importantly refuse to accept people who aren't part of their clique unless they submit to their views and disown anyone who disagrees... which he isn't exactly wrong about. I won't deny that in this specific example he expressed that in a stupid way but it does make more sense in context. It's not like he randomly went "lol SJWs are lynchers".
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 27, 2014 19:05:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry, quick question, but when the bleeding hell did JonTron lose his freaking mind?I mean, holy shit, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Well, when this was posted JonTron was in the middle of making a point that the kind of "social justice warriors" who claim to be preaching tolerance are doing anything but that by doing everything in their power to force their opinions onto others, preventing anyone else from expressing theirs, vilifying anyone who doesn't blindly agree with them and most importantly refuse to accept people who aren't part of their clique unless they submit to their views and disown anyone who disagrees... which he isn't exactly wrong about. I won't deny that in this specific example he expressed that in a stupid way but it does make more sense in context. It's not like he randomly went "lol SJWs are lynchers". I know the whole backstory to this: dude flipped out because people asked him (I'm sure some politely, some not) to not use a particular word. So instead he's convinced he's surrounded by some hivemind that's out to censor him...somehow. The problem with your last line there is that it's literally exactly what he did. He literally just equated being badgered by people who are offended by something with being lynched. Like...no, there's no middle ground here. He did it. "LOL it's a joke"...no, you just equated it with actual historical examples of lynching. Good God. There is no context on planet Earth that makes this ok.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,428
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 27, 2014 19:11:04 GMT -5
If we're going to be talking about gaming and ethics...Link contains the threats sent to Anita Sarkeesian, it's pretty graphic. When shit like this is happening, JonTron being criticised by SJWs for using slurs doesn't seem like that big a deal. All this because someone dared to suggest that games have a problem with sexism. And there are numerous sites where people in the comments are defending this because they think she's 'toxic' to gaming.
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