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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 27, 2014 19:39:06 GMT -5
If we're going to be talking about gaming and ethics...Link contains the threats sent to Anita Sarkeesian, it's pretty graphic. When shit like this is happening, JonTron being criticised by SJWs for using slurs doesn't seem like that big a deal. All this because someone dared to suggest that games have a problem with sexism. And there are numerous sites where people in the comments are defending this because they think she's 'toxic' to gaming. Yeah, that and how she does none of her own work, has conned a fair amount of people out of money, stole video, stole artwork, puts no effort at all in the medium she attempts to analyse, and in fact has done absolute f*** all about women in games, using her ill gotten position to benefit herself and her bulls*** agenda, in fact doing way more to damage the community than unite it. Honestly, she deserves to be tossed aside, locked away and forgotten, and serving only as a historical point where gaming went to hell.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Aug 27, 2014 19:40:53 GMT -5
A lot of companies also pay people to make positive posts on forums, collectively it's all known as astroturfing. Where do I send my Resume?
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Post by Kash Flagg on Aug 27, 2014 19:43:04 GMT -5
A lot of companies also pay people to make positive posts on forums, collectively it's all known as astroturfing. Where do I send my Resume? I'll pay you in fritos.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Aug 27, 2014 19:45:01 GMT -5
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 27, 2014 19:45:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry, quick question, but when the bleeding hell did JonTron lose his freaking mind?I mean, holy shit, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. Well, when this was posted JonTron was in the middle of making a point that the kind of "social justice warriors" who claim to be preaching tolerance are doing anything but that by doing everything in their power to force their opinions onto others, preventing anyone else from expressing theirs, vilifying anyone who doesn't blindly agree with them and most importantly refuse to accept people who aren't part of their clique unless they submit to their views and disown anyone who disagrees... which he isn't exactly wrong about. I won't deny that in this specific example he expressed that in a stupid way but it does make more sense in context. It's not like he randomly went "lol SJWs are lynchers". Yeah nah. twitter.com/JonTronShow/status/495783749142192129i.imgur.com/x5muSIP.png(image has an uncensored f bomb) Shooting for the lofty heights of being like Mike from Penny Arcade. twitter.com/sokareemie/status/496283293374226432JonTron fanboys bombard a girl that calls him out on shit with a bunch of racist stuff. Jon doesn't try and get them to stop. Thank god for Ragny. Long story short Freedom of Speech basically means "You can't tell me my shitty opinions well educated facts are awful because that hurts my feelings makes you an SJW shill and a fascist!"
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Post by Cyno on Aug 27, 2014 19:58:58 GMT -5
Oh, so he didn't make more than one tasteless, antisemitic joke, then.
f*** him.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 27, 2014 20:03:02 GMT -5
Ok I think you guys have taken things way off track now.
Can you get back on topic, please? >_>
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 27, 2014 20:08:16 GMT -5
Oh, so he didn't make more than one tasteless, antisemitic joke, then. f*** him. It would be one thing if he said something dumb in the heat of hte moment and was apologetic later. But no, he's literally just going "you think my foot is in my mouth now? FOOL, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BIG AND SMELLY A FOOT THAT I CAN FIT IN THERE"
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 27, 2014 20:09:22 GMT -5
Oh, so he didn't make more than one tasteless, antisemitic joke, then. f*** him. It would be one thing if he said something dumb in the heat of hte moment and was apologetic later. But no, he's literally just going "you think my foot is in my mouth now? FOOL, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BIG AND SMELLY A FOOT THAT I CAN FIT IN THERE" .....Great.....I read that in his voice and now I can't stop laughing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 27, 2014 20:12:01 GMT -5
If we're going to be talking about gaming and ethics...Link contains the threats sent to Anita Sarkeesian, it's pretty graphic. When shit like this is happening, JonTron being criticised by SJWs for using slurs doesn't seem like that big a deal. All this because someone dared to suggest that games have a problem with sexism. And there are numerous sites where people in the comments are defending this because they think she's 'toxic' to gaming. Yeah, that and how she does none of her own work, has conned a fair amount of people out of money, stole video, stole artwork, puts no effort at all in the medium she attempts to analyse, and in fact has done absolute f*** all about women in games, using her ill gotten position to benefit herself and her bulls*** agenda, in fact doing way more to damage the community than unite it. Honestly, she deserves to be tossed aside, locked away and forgotten, and serving only as a historical point where gaming went to hell. Your evidence is overwhelming and your addressing the point Beyond was actually making is admirable. Oooh, wait...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 20:14:05 GMT -5
I know where this is going, so I'll be brief.
Most gaming journalism websites (and most forms in general) are owned by corporations and they make a lot of their money through advertising. So, the prorities are going to be skewered. I mean, look up the story about the GameInformer critic who got fired for making a negative review about a game that was heavily hyped in the magazine.
That's all I'll say.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Aug 27, 2014 20:21:23 GMT -5
...in fact doing way more to damage the community than unite it. In my eyes this is a good thing. I personally find the loud obnoxious gamers with their rape and death threats to anything female and "in their business" to be disgusting. Defending them is mind boggling to me. It's a community I fully believe needs to be shaken up from the core and matured, there's obviously something very wrong there.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 27, 2014 20:25:27 GMT -5
Here's the big thing for me, and apologies for the bluntness.
Why does anybody really care? Or at least care to the point that this story is eating 4chan and Reddit from the inside?
It's video games. It's not politics, it's not world news, it's something that, in it's very name, is a game.
Games can be artistic, challenging, and can offer a really strong medium for storytelling, I fully believe and agree with that. Ideally, yes, I think anybody who reports on it would do so with integrity, as I'd hope any movie reviewer would do with their medium, or art critic with their own.
But some over the top story went down, some folks got called out, we can't even get a straightforward version of what happened, yet we have corners of the Internet entering meltdown mode over this. "Quinnspiracy", the rage over the Tropes vs. Feminism videos...why are people so worked up over this? Why such blinding outrage from some people?
It's just a really dull pattern at this point: Dickwolves, Sarkeesian, Quinn, whatever it is, there's a sadly very vocal group that springs up to make it insanely personal that somebody, I don't know, somehow threatened the blissful, pure image of the gaming industry? So they post their personal information, post death threats, rape threats, on and on it goes and it just keeps happening.
Again, I totally agree that games can be a highly expressive artform and a medium that should receive sober, intelligent critical analysis...but, end of the day, they're games. Call out BS when a writer does it, fine. Say "It sucks when gaming journalism falls short of what it could be", fine.
All this insanity? I'll never comprehend that kind of rage.
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Aug 27, 2014 20:32:15 GMT -5
Outside of the whole batch of Twitter bullshit, yes, video game journalists and reviewers should be ethical and should be called out when putting out paid off reviews and videos. As @jdogindy said, outside influences will almost always prevent that from happening. Could be a good reason for the rise of Let's Play videos and such, but that's another conversation all together. ...in fact doing way more to damage the community than unite it. In my eyes this is a good thing. I personally find the loud obnoxious gamers with their rape and death threats to anything female and "in their business" to be disgusting. Defending them is mind boggling to me. It's a community I fully believe needs to be shaken up from the core and matured, there's obviously something very wrong there. And I couldn't agree with this more. A majority of the YouTube gaming personalities are absolutely terrible with this. It's also a large reason why I rarely play anything online unless I'm playing with a group of friends. Some of the shit people spew on Call of Duty, Street Fighter and GTA Online are just mind boggling. The great anonymity of the internet just makes it worse.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Aug 27, 2014 20:35:00 GMT -5
Here's the big thing for me, and apologies for the bluntness. Why does anybody really care? Or at least care to the point that this story is eating 4chan and Reddit from the inside? It's video games. It's not politics, it's not world news, it's something that, in it's very name, is a game. Games can be artistic, challenging, and can offer a really strong medium for storytelling, I fully believe and agree with that. Ideally, yes, I think anybody who reports on it would do so with integrity, as I'd hope any movie reviewer would do with their medium, or art critic with their own. But some over the top story went down, some folks got called out, we can't even get a straightforward version of what happened, yet we have corners of the Internet entering meltdown mode over this. "Quinnspiracy", the rage over the Tropes vs. Feminism videos...why are people so worked up over this? Why such blinding outrage from some people? It's just a really dull pattern at this point: Dickwolves, Sarkeesian, Quinn, whatever it is, there's a sadly very vocal group that springs up to make it insanely personal that somebody, I don't know, somehow threatened the blissful, pure image of the gaming industry? So they post their personal information, post death threats, rape threats, on and on it goes and it just keeps happening. Again, I totally agree that games can be a highly expressive artform and a medium that should receive sober, intelligent critical analysis...but, end of the day, they're games. Call out BS when a writer does it, fine. Say "It sucks when gaming journalism falls short of what it could be", fine. All this insanity? I'll never comprehend that kind of rage. I honestly don't get it either. Hell I don't even like Anita and I still think the crap that goes her way is pathetic. It just paints a very bad picture in regards to the people doing this kind of crap.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 27, 2014 21:29:18 GMT -5
The only video game journalism I'm really familiar with: Honestly, that needs reported more in depth--The Grim Reaper, the literal embodiment of Death is roaming our neighborhoods.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 21:46:47 GMT -5
Yeah, that and how she does none of her own work, has conned a fair amount of people out of money, stole video, stole artwork, puts no effort at all in the medium she attempts to analyse, and in fact has done absolute f*** all about women in games, using her ill gotten position to benefit herself and her bulls*** agenda, in fact doing way more to damage the community than unite it. Honestly, she deserves to be tossed aside, locked away and forgotten, and serving only as a historical point where gaming went to hell. Your evidence is overwhelming and your addressing the point Beyond was actually making is admirable. Oooh, wait... A lot of that his post is subjective, but here's a source on the claim of stealing artwork, and here's one on the claim of stealing game footage. As far as "conned a fair amount of people out of money", I think he's referring to the whole situation with her Kickstarter. A quick Google search can give you info on it if you're interested. Based on getting the vibe of his posts, this probably covers the "no effort" claim as well.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 27, 2014 22:10:55 GMT -5
Your evidence is overwhelming and your addressing the point Beyond was actually making is admirable. Oooh, wait... A lot of that his post is subjective, but here's a source on the claim of stealing artwork, and here's one on the claim of stealing game footage. As far as "conned a fair amount of people out of money", I think he's referring to the whole situation with her Kickstarter. A quick Google search can give you info on it if you're interested. Based on getting the vibe of his posts, this probably covers the "no effort" claim as well. Can't claim to comprehend the money thing; people aren't under pressure to give to a Kickstarter, and many by their own admission gave as a response to the treatment she was getting. Stealing video strikes me as odd, as well, since that sounds tantamount to Let's Plays being wrong, by extension. Can't speak enough on the ins and outs of that, I admit, as I'm no expert on what exactly she's accused of stealing or what would be considered legal/proper decorum concerning them. I get the lack of output thing, though, and I'd get somebody being annoyed by that if they gave money. Still, it's hard to call it a scam in that case unless there's some level of proof she's personally profiting off it...and again, at the core a Kickstarter is what it is, there's no pressure to actually give to one. Regardless, the story came out today that she was literally driven out of her home by these lunatics sending threats to her actual house. Even if everything negative attributed to her is true, that's some dark, dark stuff going on.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 27, 2014 22:16:36 GMT -5
Here's the big thing for me, and apologies for the bluntness. Why does anybody really care? Or at least care to the point that this story is eating 4chan and Reddit from the inside? It's video games. It's not politics, it's not world news, it's something that, in it's very name, is a game. Games can be artistic, challenging, and can offer a really strong medium for storytelling, I fully believe and agree with that. Ideally, yes, I think anybody who reports on it would do so with integrity, as I'd hope any movie reviewer would do with their medium, or art critic with their own. But some over the top story went down, some folks got called out, we can't even get a straightforward version of what happened, yet we have corners of the Internet entering meltdown mode over this. "Quinnspiracy", the rage over the Tropes vs. Feminism videos...why are people so worked up over this? Why such blinding outrage from some people? It's just a really dull pattern at this point: Dickwolves, Sarkeesian, Quinn, whatever it is, there's a sadly very vocal group that springs up to make it insanely personal that somebody, I don't know, somehow threatened the blissful, pure image of the gaming industry? So they post their personal information, post death threats, rape threats, on and on it goes and it just keeps happening. Again, I totally agree that games can be a highly expressive artform and a medium that should receive sober, intelligent critical analysis...but, end of the day, they're games. Call out BS when a writer does it, fine. Say "It sucks when gaming journalism falls short of what it could be", fine. All this insanity? I'll never comprehend that kind of rage. (LANGUAGE WARNING THROUGHOUT) And let me tell you why that is bullshit. This whole "Quinnspiracy" had f*** all to do with how many guys Zoe Quinn slept around with and more to do with the fact that this revealed the true hypocracy of the gaming media and how corrupt an area it was. This thing was BURIED, people were prevented from even bringing it up or talking about it, in contrast to the various other things the gaming media was quick to jump on board with the likes of the SJWs before, like with Ryan Perez and with David Jaffe and with Josh Mattingly, and the person who did Cards Against Humanity, and so on. Yet, when it comes to Quinn f***ing up royally, she's spared, and you honestly don't think that's going to raise some flags? Especially when you see some of their stupid reasoning for it? And the worst is that people keep acting like the gaming community is some sexist hive of scum and villainy when it's not. People here know and respect a good number of the female devs in the industry, past and present, as well as how we know the manygames that do have female characters that you can play as if you dared to look. Hell,even /v/ did some awesome work with their issue of supporting a woman's gaming project in the FYC, who were slandered by Zoe earlier. All people want is some goddamn accountability, and all they get in return is painted as monsters by these assholes and the gaming media pushing that agenda, and trying to pass off them, and all women by proxy as victims. "Oh, how dare these MEN attack these poor innocent women just cause of their sex?!" NO! THEY LIED. THEY CHEAT THE SYSTEM.THEY f***ED UP ROYALLY, AND THEY DESERVE TO BE CALLED OUT ON THAT! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THEY HAVE VAGINAS, AND MORE THEY ARE ASSHOLES!
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,477
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Aug 27, 2014 22:36:00 GMT -5
It feels like damn near the only kind of review you can trust is a movie review, and even that has its share of imbeciles. I disagree with even that statement. To me reviewers no longer review movies for what they are or for what the audience is expecting of the movies (or game, book, whatever). They review the movies to be like what they want it to be. IT is the equivalent of giving an action movie a bad score because it doesn't have enough romance. I look at movies that make a ton of money, have good word of mouth, and stays strong financially after the first weekend yet has absolutely horrible reviews across the board. This shows me a total disconnect between the reviewers and the target audience. If the movie satisfies the target audience then in no way should it be reviewed as a bad or horrible movie because it entertained who it was supposed to entertain.
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