Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,050
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 16, 2014 9:35:58 GMT -5
Lesnar is the heel because it wasn't enough for him to just beat Cena in a match. Otherwise he would've just mercifully squashed him on the spot and ended it. But Lesnar's intentions going into the match were to beat the shit out of Cena until he decided he didn't want to beat the shit out of him anymore. Cena doesn't want revenge on Brock for beating him in a match. He wants revenge on Brock for going out of his way to beat him to a pulp and almost destroying his livelihood as a wrestler. Not really. Brock repeatedly told Cena he was willing to stop. He gave him chance after chance to give up and Brock would have stopped there, and left the ring. If he'd wanted to beat the shit out of him, he could have done much more than a series of German Suplexes. As for almost destroying his livelihood? How? Cena stayed at home for a week then returned, stronger than ever. By any logical sense, Cena is the heel at the moment. Using underhand tactics and threatening those who are clearly no challenge for him, to try and gain an advantage over the other man. Is this the narrative? Cena tried to fight fair and just couldn't measure up, so now he's going to cheat? Great example for the kids. Yeah, I'm someone who does see Brock as the heel in the 'vicious monster' role. But Cena's booking make that so hard, if Cena had done a stretcher job, been away for a few weeks injured, then you could go with it. Brock was taunting Cena, knowing he'll never give up, so that he could inflict more pain and mess with his head as well as his body, so he's even more of a monster. Nope, Cena's back, taking cheap shots, threatening managers. I can see what they want, but they're just doing it so badly. The cheap shots should be a strategy in a match, not a random inconsequential part of the buildup. Threatening the puppetmaster, happened all the time in the 80s with Bobby Heenan, but Cena isn't walking that line where it's justified because he's escalating things, Heyman's not getting physically involved, just talking, Cena's the one bringing that in so he comes off worse.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Sept 16, 2014 9:44:16 GMT -5
Doesn't matter. It's Cena, therefore it's okay.
I thought we were clear on this.
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Post by sonofblaine on Sept 16, 2014 15:07:08 GMT -5
At least Brock is there for his friends What does Cena do every time his friends are beaten up? NOTHING. Ryback was right and Reigns is following the same path... He doesn't even care that his gf is consorting with his enemies and being a heel.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 16, 2014 15:08:21 GMT -5
Yep, he's the face. Done nothing to justify being called a heel.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,294
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 16, 2014 15:15:36 GMT -5
I think the reason he doesn't seem like too much of a heel is the fact that he's only ever gone after the big dogs. Cena, HHH, Taker, Big Show, Mark Henry. I think the only other guy he's attacked was The Miz, unless I'm missing some.
WWE are billing him as this massive bully when he's more like the quiet, tough kid in school who beats up the bullies.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,477
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Post by metylerca on Sept 16, 2014 15:16:40 GMT -5
I like to think that Savage is the face. I mean, Hogan is stealing his girl and right in front of him no less. How anybody cheers Hulk, I may never know.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 16, 2014 15:27:07 GMT -5
I like to think that Savage is the face. I mean, Hogan is stealing his girl and right in front of him no less. How anybody cheers Hulk, I may never know. Hogan had lust in his eyes.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 16, 2014 15:33:26 GMT -5
I like to think that Savage is the face. I mean, Hogan is stealing his girl and right in front of him no less. How anybody cheers Hulk, I may never know. Hogan had lust in his eyes. Well he does have a thing for other guy's wives.
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Post by Beets by Schrute on Sept 16, 2014 16:38:42 GMT -5
I like to think that Savage is the face. I mean, Hogan is stealing his girl and right in front of him no less. How anybody cheers Hulk, I may never know. Same thing goes for Sid Justice.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,586
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Post by khali on Sept 16, 2014 16:46:29 GMT -5
Between this week and threatening Triple H with a lawsuit if he doesn't get the match, Cena has been more of a dick than ever. And all of it is being done to show he's feeling no effects from the loss at SS, and is more determined than ever.
Cena is winning, isn't he?
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Post by Dave the Dave on Sept 16, 2014 16:47:31 GMT -5
I mean, Cena isn't a face but Lesnar says he's going to beat people until the piss themselves or vomit. He's a callous prick.
He's not really a face either. And saving his friend is nice, but his friend is a dick to people.
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Post by came2piecesinmyhands on Sept 16, 2014 16:54:19 GMT -5
This is where we need someone like Jesse Ventura back calling Cena out on his heel tactics. Remember how Hogan use to regularly do eye rakes and back scratches and Jesse was the only commentator real enough to point out the hypocrisy?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 17:01:14 GMT -5
Between this week and threatening Triple H with a lawsuit if he doesn't get the match, Cena has been more of a dick than ever. And all of it is being done to show he's feeling no effects from the loss at SS, and is more determined than ever. Cena is winning, isn't he? Here's what I'm wondering. If this is the shit Vince is insisting on to make sure people don't lose faith in Cena, what the hell is he going to do if he loses again?
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Post by sonofblaine on Sept 16, 2014 17:22:52 GMT -5
This is where we need someone like Jesse Ventura back calling Cena out on his heel tactics. Remember how Hogan use to regularly do eye rakes and back scratches and Jesse was the only commentator real enough to point out the hypocrisy? It's a conspiracy.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 16, 2014 17:31:16 GMT -5
Between this week and threatening Triple H with a lawsuit if he doesn't get the match, Cena has been more of a dick than ever. And all of it is being done to show he's feeling no effects from the loss at SS, and is more determined than ever. Cena is winning, isn't he? Here's what I'm wondering. If this is the shit Vince is insisting on to make sure people don't lose faith in Cena, what the hell is he going to do if he loses again? That's a fair point, it's booking oneself into a corner. If Brock wins, then oh no they might lose faith in Cena. If Cena wins, then that just means you can beat Taker at Mania, but you damn sure can't win two straight matches against John Cena, even if one was a total squash match. Of course, combine that with the "Taker's not here, but I am" line and, well, that may be the intent.
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Post by Prince Petty on Sept 16, 2014 17:34:33 GMT -5
Not really. Brock repeatedly told Cena he was willing to stop. He gave him chance after chance to give up and Brock would have stopped there, and left the ring. If he'd wanted to beat the shit out of him, he could have done much more than a series of German Suplexes. As for almost destroying his livelihood? How? Cena stayed at home for a week then returned, stronger than ever. By any logical sense, Cena is the heel at the moment. Using underhand tactics and threatening those who are clearly no challenge for him, to try and gain an advantage over the other man. Is this the narrative? Cena tried to fight fair and just couldn't measure up, so now he's going to cheat? Great example for the kids. Yeah, I'm someone who does see Brock as the heel in the 'vicious monster' role. But Cena's booking make that so hard, if Cena had done a stretcher job, been away for a few weeks injured, then you could go with it. Brock was taunting Cena, knowing he'll never give up, so that he could inflict more pain and mess with his head as well as his body, so he's even more of a monster. Nope, Cena's back, taking cheap shots, threatening managers. I can see what they want, but they're just doing it so badly. The cheap shots should be a strategy in a match, not a random inconsequential part of the buildup. Threatening the puppetmaster, happened all the time in the 80s with Bobby Heenan, but Cena isn't walking that line where it's justified because he's escalating things, Heyman's not getting physically involved, just talking, Cena's the one bringing that in so he comes off worse. It's like they want to tell the 'Cena gets destroyed by the monster and has to go away and regroup story', but they just refuse to have Cena be off TV for more than a week (because kids are dumb and will stop liking him or something), so the entire storyline is crammed into a week, and Cena's back to this extra level of douchiness to combat Brock, but without us ever having seen him take time away to reflect and readjust his attitude. And yeah, Heyman is a different type of manager to the old school, 'I can't wait until the Hulkster gets his hands on you, buddy!' managers. Heyman doesn't distract the ref or jump up on the apron to get the babyface's attention. He doesn't grab a leg as the face is running the ropes. He just talks about how amazing Brock is, and then stands at ringside to watch him be amazing. So Cena is attacking for what? Because he can't beat Brock? Because Heyman said mean things? If the end result was to expose Cena as a hypocrite who is no longer worthy of respect, then it would be fine. But I think experience tells us that this is not on the cards. They seem to want Cena to have these levels of grey, but for no one to ever acknowledge it. He can do heelish stuff, and he can be a complete jerk to whoever he wants, but the announcers and the company still sell him to the audience as this unassailable paragon of all that is good about the WWE and America.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 16, 2014 17:40:12 GMT -5
This is where we need someone like Jesse Ventura back calling Cena out on his heel tactics. Remember how Hogan use to regularly do eye rakes and back scratches and Jesse was the only commentator real enough to point out the hypocrisy? It's a conspiracy.
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Post by SenorCrest on Sept 16, 2014 20:18:13 GMT -5
I think Cena will forever be a heel in the eyes of some people. For the most part we cheer for Lesnar, he is our face, we boo Cena because he is our heel. Its subjective, we look at wrestling way different than any of the casual or 'less committed' fans. We are truly in bizarro world.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 16, 2014 20:34:57 GMT -5
I think Cena will forever be a heel in the eyes of some people. For the most part we cheer for Lesnar, he is our face, we boo Cena because he is our heel. Its subjective, we look at wrestling way different than any of the casual or 'less committed' fans. We are truly in bizarro world. The funny thing is, if WWE actually wrote Cena's behavior to match his credo and how he's promoted, the WWE and Cena's fans would at least have higher moral ground. If he was actually written and portrayed as the hero character they simply insist he is, WWE & Cena fans could simply accuse detractors of being purposely contrarian or hating for hate sake. But that's not the case. The character is so full of easily to dissect consistency holes that the detractors are almost always right in their deconstruction of it. It's weird. Reminds me of the story the Emperor's New Clothes. Some people just choose not to see things, as glaring as they are.
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Post by SenorCrest on Sept 16, 2014 20:44:27 GMT -5
I think Cena will forever be a heel in the eyes of some people. For the most part we cheer for Lesnar, he is our face, we boo Cena because he is our heel. Its subjective, we look at wrestling way different than any of the casual or 'less committed' fans. We are truly in bizarro world. The funny thing is, if WWE actually wrote Cena's behavior to match his credo and how he's promoted, the WWE and Cena's fans would at least have higher moral ground. If he was actually written and portrayed as the hero character they simply insist he is, WWE & Cena fans could simply accuse detractors of being purposely contrarian or hating for hate sake. But that's not the case. The character is so full of easily to dissect consistency holes that the detractors are almost always right in their deconstruction of it. It's weird. Reminds me of the story the Emperor's New Clothes. Some people just choose not to see things, as glaring as they are. Yeah its weird. Because his action say one thing yet the company (hype promos, commentators)justify his behavior. Reminds me of spoiled child that is out of control yet the parent do not say anything and only make excuses for it.
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