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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 16, 2014 15:21:17 GMT -5
I'd really like to go visit the alternate universe where the Wyatt/Bryan feud wasn't cut because people couldn't handle Bryan not yelling "Yes!" for a little while. It was cut because it was shoehorned pointless nonsense and the fans rightly demanded better for Daniel Bryan
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 16, 2014 15:21:32 GMT -5
Every one here should take a step back and watch Bray live on a morning show and all its awkwardness HEREWhy is Bray even doing media appearances? He shouldn't be doing "regular wrestler stuff".
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 15:51:29 GMT -5
I'd really like to go visit the alternate universe where the Wyatt/Bryan feud wasn't cut because people couldn't handle Bryan not yelling "Yes!" for a little while. It was cut because it was shoehorned pointless nonsense and the fans rightly demanded better for Daniel Bryan if Bray wasn't good enough for a guy who should be in the main event, then why is he good enough for the main event now? The fans didn't think he was good enough to work with Bryan, the WWE didn't think he was good enough to handle Cena. That seems to set a high spot below the main event
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 16, 2014 15:52:37 GMT -5
For those people making comparisons to Punk, well...Punk was able to completely reinvent himself. I personally thought that as a character, Punk was best as the SES leader. Punk did very good as the snarky anti-authority character too, which was essentially himself...but I never expected that to happen.
I don't think that Wyatt will have that same opportunity. First off, he's not nearly on the same caliber of talent that Punk was, nor does he have the ability to reinvent himself yet again. I know he did it first with Husky Harris, but anything outside of his Wyatt character just doesn't sound very appealing because his character does hide his limitations as a performer.
What I'm essentially saying is Bray Wyatt doesn't really have the same ability to do what Punk did because they are two different kinds of performers. I guess if anyone would be a safe Punk comparison, it would be someone like Ambrose, because I can actually see Ambrose in a Punk-style role.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 16, 2014 15:55:42 GMT -5
It was cut because it was shoehorned pointless nonsense and the fans rightly demanded better for Daniel Bryan if Bray wasn't good enough for a guy who should be in the main event, then why is he good enough for the main event now? The fans didn't think he was good enough to work with Bryan, the WWE didn't think he was good enough to handle Cena. That seems to set a high spot below the main event The problem was that WWE thought so little of Bryan that their plan was basically to feed him to Bray to fatten him up (no pun intended) for Cena.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 16, 2014 15:56:35 GMT -5
It was cut because it was shoehorned pointless nonsense and the fans rightly demanded better for Daniel Bryan if Bray wasn't good enough for a guy who should be in the main event, then why is he good enough for the main event now? The fans didn't think he was good enough to work with Bryan, the WWE didn't think he was good enough to handle Cena. That seems to set a high spot below the main event Bray was fine to work with Daniel Bryan, but not at that moment.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 16, 2014 16:41:27 GMT -5
It was cut because it was shoehorned pointless nonsense and the fans rightly demanded better for Daniel Bryan if Bray wasn't good enough for a guy who should be in the main event, then why is he good enough for the main event now? The fans didn't think he was good enough to work with Bryan, the WWE didn't think he was good enough to handle Cena. That seems to set a high spot below the main event The fans didn't think that at all. They just didn't want Bryan feuding exclusively with him at the time (let alone joining them) because it curtailed what the majority wanted to be a title chase and win at Mania. Fans saw it as a detour, distraction and roadblock, so it wouldn't have mattered who Bryan was feuding with. They saw it as the office reassigning Bryan somewhere else, rather than giving him the endgame he deserved (and got via fan out-pour and rejection). It had zero to do with Bray.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 18:03:44 GMT -5
Screwing up with Bray Wyatt is a real indictment of WWE's creative process. Yeah, his promos started to lack teeth and lack meaning, but that is purely on the writing and creative direction. If he cut those exact same promos, but they actually affected ANYTHING, like attracting new followers, or driving people crazy, or breaking people mentally, anything, anything, anything, anything at all, that would not the case. The only feud where it started to work, a little bit, was with Cena. But he won at Mania, took one of the most protected losses I've ever witnessed the next month, won at Payback, and nothing about him changed at all.
Bray came in and blew it up, and WWE dropped the ball.
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Sept 16, 2014 20:02:56 GMT -5
This thread...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 20:09:27 GMT -5
This thread... You can't escape truth.
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Post by edgestar on Sept 16, 2014 21:08:32 GMT -5
I confused "main event players" with "prime time players", and imagined Harper and Rowan doing the "millions of dollars" dance
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,158
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Sept 17, 2014 3:52:14 GMT -5
I mean, yea they've been booked terribly and their momentum has been destroyed. But it's also pro wrestling, and 1-2 months of good storytelling or one amazing moment can catapult anyone back to the top in a flash. Look at Mark Henry's Hall of Pain run after more than a decade of being treated like a fool. Look at the Summer of Punk after he'd spent a few years lingering in the midcard and doing nothing after his run with Hardy. The initial run of the Wyatts at the top has been over for a few months, but all it takes is one epic promo from Bray (certainly capable) or the right person backstage getting behind them and they could be in a better spot than they've ever been before. How about JBL, one half of a tag team that was often treated as second tier turned WWE Champion for eight months straight.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723
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Post by nisidhe on Sept 17, 2014 3:54:39 GMT -5
Cena didn't kill the Wyatts' momentum - that was Daniel Bryan who not only beat the Wyatts at their peak, but buried them in a promo on Raw the next night. He'd infiltrated and figured them out, he said. From that moment, the Wyatts were really little better than a cool entrance theme. Everything they did in the Cena buildup that followed just rang so hollow to me.
The Wyatts have had about as long now as the Shield did, and unlike the Shield have done jack squat when it might have mattered. A singles wrestler with Bray Wyatt's gimmick might continue to work; however, there's been a total lack of character development among all three since the beginning and, while Harper could credibly challenge Bray for leadership, none of them can be considered capable of breakout status. The longer the faction is allowed to continue, the more the cracks in the characterizations begin to show. This is one faction for which there is no really dramatic endgame to engage fans or to springboard any new feuds that will engage fans. These are three basically unlikable characters with nowhere to go but who can't stay where they are for much longer.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 17, 2014 3:55:51 GMT -5
I mean, yea they've been booked terribly and their momentum has been destroyed. But it's also pro wrestling, and 1-2 months of good storytelling or one amazing moment can catapult anyone back to the top in a flash. Look at Mark Henry's Hall of Pain run after more than a decade of being treated like a fool. Look at the Summer of Punk after he'd spent a few years lingering in the midcard and doing nothing after his run with Hardy. The initial run of the Wyatts at the top has been over for a few months, but all it takes is one epic promo from Bray (certainly capable) or the right person backstage getting behind them and they could be in a better spot than they've ever been before. How about JBL, one half of a tag team that was often treated as second tier turned WWE Champion for eight months straight. JBL is part of the reason why WWE feels they have to push Cena so hard. Because despite being WWE Champion for eight months straight, he didn't have much of a rub to give Cena. Cena was never properly elevated and WWE tried too hard to "legitimize" him after the fact.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,534
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 17, 2014 5:52:24 GMT -5
Every one here should take a step back and watch Bray live on a morning show and all its awkwardness HEREWhy is Bray even doing media appearances? He shouldn't be doing "regular wrestler stuff". I think that's the biggest issue, WWE have destroyed any mystique he may have once had. That was vital to Bray Wyatt as a cult leader, why would anybody want to follow him now? Imagine if the Undertaker booked the same way in his early days, he'd have skipped nearly killing The Ultimate Warrior or his actions and The Macho Man's wedding and gone directly to losing his big title match with Hulk Hogan. As the timeline is now different maybe after Hogan was squashed by Earthquake he would take his frustrations out on 'Taker by sitting on him repeatedly like a giant blonde Mojo Rawley. After that the commentators would speak about irrelevant things all over Undertaker's entrances and then 'Taker would talk about the whole debacle with Jay Leno. The CM Punk example is much the same, it was bad but he was established and a former WHC before The Big Show buried SES so he had that base to recover from. That's the key part really, once fully established you can recover from most things but a monster especially needs to establish that credibility first and Bray hasn't done that as an individual and the work that was done as a stable has been reversed.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Sept 17, 2014 8:49:43 GMT -5
Give him a run with the IC title, I think he'd get decent feud out of Ziggler & their's plenty of good mid carders he could feud with.
Might help build him up again
Also stop making Rowan/harper jobbers and maybe add some new members (female Maybe)
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Post by sybaku on Sept 17, 2014 10:19:26 GMT -5
Only way they are saved is if they retire the Big Show during this feud.
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Post by joediego on Sept 17, 2014 11:12:23 GMT -5
if Bray wasn't good enough for a guy who should be in the main event, then why is he good enough for the main event now? The fans didn't think he was good enough to work with Bryan, the WWE didn't think he was good enough to handle Cena. That seems to set a high spot below the main event The fans didn't think that at all. They just didn't want Bryan feuding exclusively with him at the time (let alone joining them) because it curtailed what the majority wanted to be a title chase and win at Mania. Fans saw it as a detour, distraction and roadblock, so it wouldn't have mattered who Bryan was feuding with. They saw it as the office reassigning Bryan somewhere else, rather than giving him the endgame he deserved (and got via fan out-pour and rejection). It had zero to do with Bray. Agree with this, and now it makes me angry that Bray wasn't Bryan's feud post-Mania. The fans would have loved it - they could have easily protected Cena and had Bray win through shenanigans and THEN done the whole 'Bryan joins the Wyatts' thing as WWE champ. The fans would have ate that stuff up and Bray would have been elevated despite not coming away with the gold. Instead ladies and gentleman, Bray was fed to the 37 year old on-top-for-10-years-and-still-going-black-hole-for-nascent-careers John Cena, and Bryan had to feud with a 47 year old boring hoss that lost credibility as a singles competitor years ago.
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Post by joediego on Sept 17, 2014 11:15:24 GMT -5
I also want to say that I read a Raw spoiler that said the Big Show beat The Wyatts in a 3 on 1 handicap match!?! That's what made me make this thread, if I had actually seen Raw and found out that was untrue I would have held fire, as Bray might be going over Show (although he is probably being used to build Big SHow for Lesnar).
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Sept 17, 2014 11:31:16 GMT -5
His feuds aren't what turned me away from him but that Bray says the same general thing every week with no real meaning. What does half his stuff even have to do with wrestling? He seems to be having fun acting like a student who just figured out Kierkegaard's views on life. But its not entertaining me anymore.
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