The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,281
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 30, 2014 13:51:01 GMT -5
Cena obviously had some kind of childhood trauma involving briefcases. I really want that to be his explanation.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Sept 30, 2014 17:13:48 GMT -5
See this is EXACTLY what I talk about when I talk about the sheer hypocrisy in wrestling fans. Anything Cena or Sheamus or The Miz does people will find a way to criticize it even if it makes logical sense, but won't do the same for others.
Why the f*** should Cena just be like "Eh no big deal?" Imagine if you could say "I killed Satan" but get that taken away from you by some schmuck who just wanted more money, would you just be like "whatever" or would you be livid?
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 30, 2014 17:24:06 GMT -5
The problem I have with the whole thing is the convoluted booking. You've got too many things going on. Dean is feuding with Seth, who also has a beef with Cena, who is still, as far as I'm aware in a feud with Lesnar, but Orton, Kane and HHH are also involved, and Reigns is too when he comes back
It's a mess
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 30, 2014 17:34:09 GMT -5
This topic makes my head hurt.
Cena hates Rollins for ruining his chance at the title and he hates them. Makes sense to me.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 30, 2014 17:49:49 GMT -5
This topic makes my head hurt. Cena hates Rollins for ruining his chance at the title and he hates them. Makes sense to me. As a single event, you're right. As a pattern, it does show a flaw in the character. Yes, the problem then is that we remember stuff from the last few years when clearly we're not supposed to. Ryder and Bryan both got the "Here I come to save the day" routine, with the former getting heeled on BY Cena and then just dropping out of sight completely. The latter got moved to a Wyatts feud that, for all intents and purposes, would have had him forgotten about if the crowd hadn't revolted. Cena's logic is consistent in that it's self-serving.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 30, 2014 17:52:49 GMT -5
This topic makes my head hurt. Cena hates Rollins for ruining his chance at the title and he hates them. Makes sense to me. As a single event, you're right. As a pattern, it does show a flaw in the character. Yes, the problem then is that we remember stuff from the last few years when clearly we're not supposed to. Ryder and Bryan both got the "Here I come to save the day" routine, with the former getting heeled on BY Cena and then just dropping out of sight completely. The latter got moved to a Wyatts feud that, for all intents and purposes, would have had him forgotten about if the crowd hadn't revolted. Cena's logic is consistent in that it's self-serving. True but maybe its me but here he is justified. I think we're all set in the logic of one at a time feuds where someone has to stop having a beef with someone.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Sept 30, 2014 17:54:04 GMT -5
This topic makes my head hurt. Cena hates Rollins for ruining his chance at the title and he hates them. Makes sense to me. As a single event, you're right. As a pattern, it does show a flaw in the character. Yes, the problem then is that we remember stuff from the last few years when clearly we're not supposed to. Ryder and Bryan both got the "Here I come to save the day" routine, with the former getting heeled on BY Cena and then just dropping out of sight completely. The latter got moved to a Wyatts feud that, for all intents and purposes, would have had him forgotten about if the crowd hadn't revolted. Cena's logic is consistent in that it's self-serving. But in this situation, Cena's never gone through what Lesnar did to him before. This wasn't a "Oh I lost the title, I'll just get it back" situation. This was a "I got murdered by this guy and was 2 seconds from taking my revenge and avenging everything this guy did to me and what I stand for" and Rollins ruined it. They could play up the idea that that was the only chance Cena will ever have at coming close to beating Lesnar, thereby Rollins now taking away Cena's only chance, but they haven't yet.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Sept 30, 2014 18:01:44 GMT -5
Does it make sense for Cena to be upset? Sure. But they booked it perfectly so a Lesnar/Cena Hell in a Cell match would actually MAKE SENSE. To keep Rollins out and give Cena a fair shot at the belt. Sure, Cena can have a beef with Rollins, but he just feels shoved into the Ambrose/Rollins feud because Lesnar doesn't want to wrestle at the next PPV.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 30, 2014 18:05:43 GMT -5
As a single event, you're right. As a pattern, it does show a flaw in the character. Yes, the problem then is that we remember stuff from the last few years when clearly we're not supposed to. Ryder and Bryan both got the "Here I come to save the day" routine, with the former getting heeled on BY Cena and then just dropping out of sight completely. The latter got moved to a Wyatts feud that, for all intents and purposes, would have had him forgotten about if the crowd hadn't revolted. Cena's logic is consistent in that it's self-serving. True but maybe its me but here he is justified. I think we're all set in the logic of one at a time feuds where someone has to stop having a beef with someone. Again, single event vs. pattern. Should he be pissed at Rollins? Sure. At this point damn near everyone is for varying reasons, making Seth a damn fine heel. Thing is, if we look at character motivation in this single instance, I see the following. Kane and Orton" He's a huge pain the ass and we keep having to fix shit. Cena: Mah title! I almost won! I hate him for screwing me. Ambrose: He tried to murder me with a cinder block after he turned on me when we were as close as family. If anything, in this specific situation, Ambrose should be doing the "Here I come to save the day" routine. His justification, from a storyline point of view as well as a character consistency point of view, dictates that. I have no doubt that all three can tell that story, but that's not my concern. My concern is the announcers will tell the story that the valiant and insurmountable John Cena saved Dean Ambrose and made the world safe again, and it will do damage to an interesting character on the rise. That is the pattern, that is the consistent pattern for a decade now, and that's where my issue lies. Tell the story, everybody wants to murder Seth Rollins for being a dastardly prick for trying to cash in the MitB briefcast in the exact same manner that everyone else has. In the process he wronged Cena, and so now Cena, who can't get to Brock, wants payback. His allies also want to kick is ass for being an unsufferable bastard who keeps causing them headaches. Ambrose wants to, most likely, remove several of Seth's organs and probably make a diorama with them, or a casserole, one of the two. That way, you get five characters that can have their own unique spin on a storyline, each of whom can bring something to the table. Instead, we'll get one character doing his same routine while the others are mitigated to just below backup singer levels of importance.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Sept 30, 2014 18:07:13 GMT -5
If WWE doesn't mess this up I think it is actually helping elevate Ambrose. They even have him insulting Cena and not taking any guff from him every week, which enhances his rebel badass image, and taps into the "Cena sucks" part of the crowd. But they do need to make sure the feud is Ambrose/Rollins as planned and somehow have that be the big match. Get Cena distracted by another feud so he has to abandon the Rollins thing.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 30, 2014 19:58:46 GMT -5
If WWE doesn't mess this up I think it is actually helping elevate Ambrose. They even have him insulting Cena and not taking any guff from him every week, which enhances his rebel badass image, and taps into the "Cena sucks" part of the crowd. But they do need to make sure the feud is Ambrose/Rollins as planned and somehow have that be the big match. Get Cena distracted by another feud so he has to abandon the Rollins thing. The Rollins thing is already Cena's "distraction" to get him away from Lesnar/the title.
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ededdneddy
Hank Scorpio
ededdandembed
Posts: 5,697
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Post by ededdneddy on Oct 1, 2014 11:37:30 GMT -5
But now here we are, again, with a rising star in danger of having his heat hijacked by Cena. ...Again.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 1, 2014 12:14:34 GMT -5
WWE made Ryder look like a bitch all on their own. They didn't need Cena's help with that one.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 1, 2014 12:20:10 GMT -5
They should let Rollins piss off everyone on the roster.
And then have the inevitable segment where they chase him around the arena en masse.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Oct 1, 2014 12:26:54 GMT -5
Cena obviously had some kind of childhood trauma involving briefcases. I really want that to be his explanation. I like to believe he has a personal vendetta against MITB on account of he was both the first person to get cashed in on and the first person to cash in and lose.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 1, 2014 12:27:55 GMT -5
See this Why the f*** should Cena just be like "Eh no big deal?" Imagine if you could say "I killed Satan" but get that taken away from you by some schmuck who just wanted more money, would you just be like "whatever" or would you be livid? Because what would make logical sense would be for him to demand another match with Brock in an environment where there's no possibility of that happening again. If the title is what he's mad about, he should be going after the titleholder. He can be angry& even attack Seth, but it shouldn't be an end forl in itself. It's not hypocrisy to want motivations to make sense.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 1, 2014 12:33:22 GMT -5
All Cena can do is beat him. It wouldn't stop Rollins from simply interfering again if Cena got another title shot.
It would make more sense if Cena goaded him into putting the contract on the line. Ambrose would also demand to get in on that, and it would be a three way match. I'd have Cena be on the verge of victory, only for Ambrose to take him out and get the pin and the MITB briefcase, which gives him a satisfying revenge against Rollins too.
I see more momentum for Ambrose hunting down a heel Lesnar and waiting for his chance, than Rollins (another heel) or Cena (stale and hated by half the crowd).
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 1, 2014 12:40:28 GMT -5
They should let Rollins piss off everyone on the roster. And then have the inevitable segment where they chase him around the arena en masse. only if this plays
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 1, 2014 12:53:48 GMT -5
See this Why the f*** should Cena just be like "Eh no big deal?" Imagine if you could say "I killed Satan" but get that taken away from you by some schmuck who just wanted more money, would you just be like "whatever" or would you be livid? Because what would make logical sense would be for him to demand another match with Brock in an environment where there's no possibility of that happening again. If the title is what he's mad about, he should be going after the titleholder. He can be angry& even attack Seth, but it shouldn't be an end forl in itself. It's not hypocrisy to want motivations to make sense. This. Great post. Pretty much sums up the short and skinny of it and ends the debate rationally. Kudos.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 1, 2014 13:35:54 GMT -5
I love how some people are using kayfabe events to push their argument.
The point of the matter is, they put Cena in this feud BECAUSE they booked themselves into a corner by having Cena say what he said he was going to do at NOC.
That was absolutely stupid, and showed that they have no intention of doing one or the other for Cena or Brock, so there shouldn't have even been a rematch.
The point of everything is for Cena to once again look strong by focusing himself against Rollins. Otherwise he'd look like a chump because he still didn't get the job done against Brock...again all because Cena is an infallible entity whenever he says he will do something.
So as a result, let's keep Cena busy by having the two most interesting guys in the company carry him until his next big feud against someone who he's already proven himself against.
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