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Post by Some Guy on Nov 1, 2014 13:10:53 GMT -5
Jericho overrates himself but at the same time the WWE does as well. Look at the Network, they just had an entire episode of the Monday Night Wars dedicated to Jericho and how much of an impact he made. The episode ended with him getting the wins over Austin and Rock. He, not Mysterio, not Eddie, not Angle, but hey received an entire episode about him. He's a very great wrestler, done some amazing things and he's up there in the list. He's definitely above RVD that's for sure. The thing with Jericho that many other wrestlers don't have is that he's crossed over. He has Fozzy but beyond that people see him in I Love the 80s (along with many other VH1 things), Dancing with the Stars, Larry King Live and many other things. The guy's been around the media. I'll say he's on the second tier of wrestlers. He's not first tier but he's second. Not getting into who's all second tier but that fits with Jericho. Uhh, why would Eddie or Mysterio get an episode about them in the Monday Night Wars, exactly? They both had spots where they were underrated in the undercard in WCW, and then took a while before they really got higher in the WWE. Eddie was basically just a random undercard dude in the WWE during the Attitude Era.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 13:39:10 GMT -5
I was thinking about the Lennon/McCartney to Harrison analogy, and it's actually pretty accurate. Lennon and McCarthy are much, much more well-known than George Harrison. But, Harrison was an important piece of the band and is heavily respected by his peers. That comment's really not ou tof line at all.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Nov 1, 2014 14:19:00 GMT -5
Honestly, after dealing with Bret Hart's book.... I'm just thankful anytime someone shows humility and can admit mistakes. Jericho will plain out admit he sucks at times, his ideas are awful, or at least they go over like a fart in church. I do think he overestimates himself a bit, but it's better than Bret Hart's constant... "Anytime I won, it was legit... anytime I lost, it was a poor storyline decision."
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 1, 2014 14:22:07 GMT -5
He was much better in WCW imo. A lot of his WWE stuff has been a caricature of what he was in WCW, with the catchphrases maximized and the character itself minimized. Also haven't at all liked his last two returns. He still wrestles a good match but his matches and storylines are so heat free and empty to me in recent years, with the result not being of any importance in most cases. If Jericho was what he was in WCW in WWE, he'd be a C show jobber that only shows up on RAW to get beat up by the legends/celebrity guests.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 1, 2014 14:22:16 GMT -5
Honestly, after dealing with Bret Hart's book.... I'm just thankful anytime someone shows humility and can admit mistakes. Jericho will plain out admit he sucks at times, his ideas are awful, or at least they go over like a fart in church. I do think he overestimates himself a bit, but it's better than Bret Hart's constant... "Anytime I won, it was legit... anytime I lost, it was a poor storyline decision." Yeah I laughed so hard throughout Bret's book. I don't think that was his intention
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Post by IMPRESSIVE knightwing1047 on Nov 1, 2014 14:30:17 GMT -5
I was thinking about the Lennon/McCartney to Harrison analogy, and it's actually pretty accurate. Lennon and McCarthy are much, much more well-known than George Harrison. But, Harrison was an important piece of the band and is heavily respected by his peers. That comment's really not ou tof line at all. This. This. A thousand times this. Without a doubt 3rd behind Austin and The Rock. Harrison had a few hits on his own, one classic and then solid work and collaboration with other artists for the rest of his career. Very similar to Jericho's Wrestlemania resume. Also, I don't feel like there is ANY comparison between RVD and Jericho. Jericho blows RVD out of the water career-wise. This thread is GREATLY reducing Jericho's role.
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Post by BorneAgain on Nov 1, 2014 14:42:40 GMT -5
Honestly, after dealing with Bret Hart's book.... I'm just thankful anytime someone shows humility and can admit mistakes. Jericho will plain out admit he sucks at times, his ideas are awful, or at least they go over like a fart in church. I do think he overestimates himself a bit, but it's better than Bret Hart's constant... "Anytime I won, it was legit... anytime I lost, it was a poor storyline decision." To be fair he was going to admit more mistakes, but his editor walked up to him, tears in his eyes, and said he couldn't let Bret deceive the people by saying he was worse than he actually was.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 14:44:28 GMT -5
Without a doubt 3rd behind Austin and The Rock. I really don’t think he is. Even if we’re talking just the attitude era then he's well below Triple H, Undertaker, Mick Foley and Kurt Angle. Probably Kane too. And you could argue for the New Age Outlaws. I'd probably place Jericho just above the likes of Chris Benoit and Big Show.
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Post by Tarik Dee on Nov 1, 2014 14:54:49 GMT -5
He was much better in WCW imo. A lot of his WWE stuff has been a caricature of what he was in WCW, with the catchphrases maximized and the character itself minimized. Also haven't at all liked his last two returns. He still wrestles a good match but his matches and storylines are so heat free and empty to me in recent years, with the result not being of any importance in most cases. If Jericho was what he was in WCW in WWE, he'd be a C show jobber that only shows up on RAW to get beat up by the legends/celebrity guests. So, Heath Slater?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 15:09:35 GMT -5
Without a doubt 3rd behind Austin and The Rock. I really don’t think he is. Even if we’re talking just the attitude era then he's well below Triple H, Undertaker, Mick Foley and Kurt Angle. Probably Kane too. And you could argue for the New Age Outlaws. I'd probably place Jericho just above the likes of Chris Benoit and Big Show. Mr. Haitch, Taker, and Foley I will agree on. Angle took a bit to actually get over, and by the time he really hit his stride the Attitude Era had pretty much ended. Jericho came in at the peak of WWE's popularity, and was over as hell the day he came in. He's a little bit below Foley I'd say. Kane is pretty similar to Jericho, but in different circles. More 90s wrestling fans probably remember Kane, but Jericho has a lot more media exposure through other projects. The Outlaws got the big pops and sold the merch, but they didn't have the kind of support Jericho had. People really cared if he won or lost, with the Outlaws they were only there for the schtick.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 15:35:17 GMT -5
Chris Jericho just played Captain Fantastic on my musical hero, Devin Townsend's new Ziltoid 2 CD. He can think he is whatever he wants. That's my all time fav collaboration of anything ever.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 15:41:28 GMT -5
Jericho overrates himself but at the same time the WWE does as well. Look at the Network, they just had an entire episode of the Monday Night Wars dedicated to Jericho and how much of an impact he made. The episode ended with him getting the wins over Austin and Rock. He, not Mysterio, not Eddie, not Angle, but hey received an entire episode about him. He's a very great wrestler, done some amazing things and he's up there in the list. He's definitely above RVD that's for sure. The thing with Jericho that many other wrestlers don't have is that he's crossed over. He has Fozzy but beyond that people see him in I Love the 80s (along with many other VH1 things), Dancing with the Stars, Larry King Live and many other things. The guy's been around the media. I'll say he's on the second tier of wrestlers. He's not first tier but he's second. Not getting into who's all second tier but that fits with Jericho. Uhh, why would Eddie or Mysterio get an episode about them in the Monday Night Wars, exactly? They both had spots where they were underrated in the undercard in WCW, and then took a while before they really got higher in the WWE. Eddie was basically just a random undercard dude in the WWE during the Attitude Era. ? I was using them in response to this bringing up Eddie, Mysterio and many other wrestlers. I didn't say they didn't become more popular as time went on as they did, I was just using them as an example of it. Still in their popularity and relevance, it can be argued that the WWE wouldn't see them up to Jericho's level of relevancy as a whole considering how highly they rate Jericho in general especially given this episode. They rate Jericho extremely high.
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 1, 2014 15:55:49 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say you weren't watching in 2000, then. Jericho was absolutey the #2 babyface once Foley retired, and remained that way until Austin came back late 2000. HHH, Angle and Benoit were despised heels, and the Hardyz were more over as a tag team and hadn't had big singles runs yet at that point. Beyond that, no, he's not on the same tier as Rock/Austin/Taker/HHH, but this thread is selling him pretty damn short too. I think I just saw someone claim he's as popular as Taz. Ridiculous. Indeed I was, in fact it's my favourite year in wrestling. Just because those guys were heels doesn't mean they weren't popular. Angle and HHH in the summer were as popular every night as Jericho on that one night that everybody refers to. And his pop is as much attributed to a) super-heel HHH being beaten and b) an impromptu title change. The Hardys were certainly more popular than Jericho and were main eventing shows and in advertised PPV matches. Jericho was a very reliable upper mid-carder. If he WAS third most popular after Austin and Rock, he's far, far, far below them at a distant third. He's certainly not top five biggest stars of 2000/01. Most of that is down to his booking, however So Jericho was only mega-popular "because of HHH" and because he was booked that way? He was booked that way BECAUSE he was very over with the crowd. You put him in the ring during that time against HHH or Angle and the crowd would be firmly in his corner, and don't give me that "thanks to the heels efforts" excuse. I'm not denying Austin and Rock were way infront of him, but Austin and Rock are way infront of most people. I'm just saying Jericho was easily one of the more over faces during that time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 16:05:36 GMT -5
He does, but when you're someone who's strived to be one of the best you tend to need that ego. If you are an outgoing person who thrives and requires attention (podcast/band/wrestler/VH1 talking head) then you WILL believe you're more than an F-list at best celebrity to most non-fans of wrestling.
However -despite me disliking Jericho in the early 2000s as I was and still get irritated by the character- in pro-wrestling he's a genuine name from a hugely successful era for both WCW and WWF/E. I stress both companies impact on that, the reason he was a hot name coming into the WWF was due to his consistent 60 second promos/vignettes on every episode of Nitro. Fozzy got all the support they ever had due to Jericho's popularity with a sect of younger people who would go to their gigs firstly to see pro-wrestler Jericho with the music far behind, many people ignoring the sounds they make altogether, that says a lot about his celebrity status: he's over with a niche group, but a relatively large niche group.
Jericho does think he's bigger than he is in music and in wrestling, he's less than a footnote in music and owes most of the chances he had due to his wrestling career, but he's got a page long essay dedicated to him in the book of modern pro-wrestling through his success and work across 3 decades.
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Post by The Tee Why on Nov 1, 2014 17:35:01 GMT -5
I hear a lot of talk about how he's kind of a dick in person, would love to hear some of these as I almost met him at a book signing once but my ride bailed(back when the second book came out).
I love stories of beloved 'known' people being dicks.
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Post by Hawk Hart on Nov 1, 2014 17:58:47 GMT -5
I hear a lot of talk about how he's kind of a dick in person, would love to hear some of these as I almost met him at a book signing once but my ride bailed(back when the second book came out). I love stories of beloved 'known' people being dicks. I know @supersweetbotch has a story or two of Jericho being a decent fella. I've heard tons of negative stories about meeting CM Punk too and dude was cool as hell to me.
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Post by King Boo on Nov 1, 2014 18:01:28 GMT -5
Jericho was utterly awesome when I hung out with him for a bit after a Fozzy show. Just a really nice, fun guy.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 1, 2014 18:02:37 GMT -5
I hear a lot of talk about how he's kind of a dick in person, would love to hear some of these as I almost met him at a book signing once but my ride bailed(back when the second book came out). I love stories of beloved 'known' people being dicks. I know @supersweetbotch has a story or two of Jericho being a decent fella. I've heard tons of negative stories about meeting CM Punk too and dude was cool as hell to me. Yeah, a lot of it is going to depend on what circumstances you meet people under. A friend of mine met Jericho and he was really awesome to her, so there's that. Jericho was utterly awesome when I hung out with him for a bit after a Fozzy show. Just a really nice, fun guy. Oh hey, speak of the devil!
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Post by Nickybojelais on Nov 1, 2014 18:09:19 GMT -5
I did have a bit of a "don't meet people you are fans of" moment with him that might have helped inspire this thread... I went to his last book signing in Tampa last weekend, which is where he lives. I stood in line watching him engage everyone, ask for people's names and personalize their autographs, etc. Well, his wife and kids showed up. They were standing right beside me and I blurted out "Is this Ash the fish expert?" Ash turned around and high fived me and Jericho said "it is and these are (whatever his daughter's names are) the literary experts! (To the kids) See how many fans you guys have!" Ok, so cool moment.. But, his wife then said they were going to eat. Jericho said he wanted to come and she said something along the lines of well you will be here a while. Jericho straight up said I will hurry it along just wait. Now, granted, his wife is a bad motha hush yo mouth in person, so I would probably do the same. But, he just rushed us completely through. He still looked up to pose for pics, but didn't ask my name or really engage much at all. That rubbed me a wrong way a bit. Just a smidge, it wasn't too blatant and I had the cool moment with his kids, but the people in front of me got a lot more. The guy in front of me asked of Jericho would sign ARMBAR and Jericho said no, but he signed Fozzy on my copy, which made me wonder why he couldn't at least make that change for a fan who waited to see him and paid money? Sorry for the long story! That was an interesting interaction you had. Here's only my "Devil's Advocate" thought: It's pretty damn cool that the guy would rather go have lunch with his family than sign autographs and feed his ego. That's a fair point if you are bugging Jericho in a moment of privacy, in an airport or on the street. But its certainly not right when you are getting paid by the fans for a scheduled appearance.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 1, 2014 18:15:09 GMT -5
That was an interesting interaction you had. Here's only my "Devil's Advocate" thought: It's pretty damn cool that the guy would rather go have lunch with his family than sign autographs and feed his ego. That's a fair point if you are bugging Jericho in a moment of privacy, in an airport or on the street. But its certainly not right when you are getting paid by the fans for a scheduled appearance. Couldn't agree more. When people are paying to meet you, you stay however long it takes and be friendly to every person (unless they're an asshole to you, of course)
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