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Post by Session Moth is over on Dec 30, 2014 8:56:14 GMT -5
Forget the four rope mistake, anyone can make a mistake but even forgetting that part the promo was one of the worst promos I have heard on Raw in years. I felt sorry for Ceasaro bacause it was so bad.
Now I'm a Cesaro fan but we need to get real here. Love Cesaro or not I don't understand how anyone could think that wasn't a bad promo.
But Cesaro should never have been put in that position. All Cesaro ever needs to say on a mic is a few words. He should not be out in the middle of the ring on his own talking for that length of time. They need to play to his strength. He needs to be the guy that goes in that ring and does what he does best. Wrestle. WWE needs to play to these guys strengths, not put them at something they are uncomfortable at.
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Post by wahoowah11 on Dec 30, 2014 8:57:10 GMT -5
I hope he doesnt get fired or quits, I hope he makes it. Also I didnt think it was that bad of a mistake, and he corrected himself pretty quickly. If he didnt correct himself then I would say it was a bad promo.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 30, 2014 10:10:31 GMT -5
For god sakes pull Heyman into the creative meeting and have him give a lecture about playing to wrestler's strengths. WWE would try to book 911 as a luchadore.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 30, 2014 10:17:30 GMT -5
Man I can't believe that jabroni Hulk Hogan went out there and totally flubbed the line about being in the Superdome. I mean, here he is on the biggest stage of them all, WRESTLEMANIA, and he says "Silverdome" instead of "Superdome!" Who gave this guy a mic? I can't believe Vince would put him out there. Seriously, Hulk should be fired for that. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a mic, let alone Raw, let alone the WWE. He should just go back to Japan. I mean how can the front office even take Hogan seriously when he's just gonna go out there and cut a promo with such a flub in it that its practically Sid cutting the Genesis of McGillicutty promo times a hundred billion trillion million gazillion!!!!!!!!! It's not really fair to compare anyone to Hulk Hogan, but you did, so let's run with it. Yes, old-man Hulk flubbed the arena he was in, but look how he recovered - he tied it all in with Andre the Giant and Wrestlemania 3, and got a huge pop, and then a fun and deserved rib from Austin a few minutes later. It didn't hurt the promo at all. Cesaro's awkward correction took an already clunky promo and pushed it further off the rails - he looked scared out there at that point. He doesn't have the ability to improvise like a Hulk Hogan, hence, the need for scripted promos. It's funny how some members of this board are a lot like creative when it comes to falling in love with guys and not being able to see their flaws. The WWE gets accused of that with Cena and reigns. But there's plenty of fans who do the same thing with Cesaro.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 10:20:15 GMT -5
Man I can't believe that jabroni Hulk Hogan went out there and totally flubbed the line about being in the Superdome. I mean, here he is on the biggest stage of them all, WRESTLEMANIA, and he says "Silverdome" instead of "Superdome!" Who gave this guy a mic? I can't believe Vince would put him out there. Seriously, Hulk should be fired for that. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a mic, let alone Raw, let alone the WWE. He should just go back to Japan. I mean how can the front office even take Hogan seriously when he's just gonna go out there and cut a promo with such a flub in it that its practically Sid cutting the Genesis of McGillicutty promo times a hundred billion trillion million gazillion!!!!!!!!! It's not really fair to compare anyone to Hulk Hogan, but you did, so let's run with it. Yes, old-man Hulk flubbed the arena he was in, but look how he recovered - he tied it all in with Andre the Giant and Wrestlemania 3, and got a huge pop, and then a fun and deserved rib from Austin a few minutes later. It didn't hurt the promo at all. Cesaro's awkward correction took an already clunky promo and pushed it further off the rails - he looked scared out there at that point. He doesn't have the ability to improvise like a Hulk Hogan, hence, the need for scripted promos. It's funny how some members of this board are a lot like creative when it comes to falling in love with guys and not being able to see their flaws. The WWE gets accused of that with Cena and reigns. But there's plenty of fans who do the same thing with Cesaro. Well, maybe if WWE actually followed basic 101 booking and booked wrestlers to their srengths instead of accentuating their negatives we wouldn't have this problem.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 30, 2014 10:27:56 GMT -5
It's not really fair to compare anyone to Hulk Hogan, but you did, so let's run with it. Yes, old-man Hulk flubbed the arena he was in, but look how he recovered - he tied it all in with Andre the Giant and Wrestlemania 3, and got a huge pop, and then a fun and deserved rib from Austin a few minutes later. It didn't hurt the promo at all. Cesaro's awkward correction took an already clunky promo and pushed it further off the rails - he looked scared out there at that point. He doesn't have the ability to improvise like a Hulk Hogan, hence, the need for scripted promos. It's funny how some members of this board are a lot like creative when it comes to falling in love with guys and not being able to see their flaws. The WWE gets accused of that with Cena and reigns. But there's plenty of fans who do the same thing with Cesaro. Well, maybe if WWE actually followed basic 101 booking and booked wrestlers to their srengths instead of accentuating their negatives we wouldn't have this problem. If they take the mic away from him, the same posters will just complain about how they don't give him any mic time. Just like the WWE and Cena. If ratings go down, or a match doesn't work, they'll blame the guy they want to blame. If Cesaro is involved in something that doesn't work, it will always be the WWE's fault.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Dec 30, 2014 10:29:04 GMT -5
Russo said on Twitter throwing Cesaro out there on the mic following it with a beat down by BNB was a direct statement to the section of online wrestling fans who were up in arms over what Vince said about Cesaro.
Wouldn't suprise me with Vince tbh. It was always obvious giving Cesaro that much mic time was a terrible idea. I blame Vince for this. If I'm a football manager I don't put my best stricker in defence and then scream 'See told you he's terrible' when he messes up. Play to strengths. X Pac was right on twitter.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 30, 2014 10:29:36 GMT -5
So, to summarize this thread: one flub in a throwaway promo retroactively justifies WWE railroading yet another potential star?
That's a funny way of looking at it.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 30, 2014 10:46:52 GMT -5
So, to summarize this thread: one flub in a throwaway promo retroactively justifies WWE railroading yet another potential star? That's a funny way of looking at it. It's more like you can't be making that mistake when you are already fighting an uphill battle to prove to the people in the back you can be a main eventer.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 30, 2014 10:54:07 GMT -5
So, to summarize this thread: one flub in a throwaway promo retroactively justifies WWE railroading yet another potential star? That's a funny way of looking at it. It's more like you can't be making that mistake when you are already fighting an uphill battle to prove to the people in the back you can be a main eventer. The thing is, he wouldn't need to cut this promo if WWE hadn't sabotaged his push and particularly if Vince hadn't publicly mocked him. It's a little sad to see, from all the likes, that people are falling right in line with WWE's train of though. One mistake does not mean that they were right to depush the Cesaro and it doesn't cancel out his immense value.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 30, 2014 10:56:37 GMT -5
It's more like you can't be making that mistake when you are already fighting an uphill battle to prove to the people in the back you can be a main eventer. The thing is, he wouldn't need to cut this promo if WWE hadn't sabotaged his push and particularly if Vince hadn't publicly mocked him. It's a little sad to see, from all the likes, that people are falling right in line with WWE's train of though. One mistake does not mean that they were right to depush the Cesaro and it doesn't cancel out his immense value. Well he would eventually have to cut some good promos so this would be as good as time as any to show that he can do it when the boss thinks he can't.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 30, 2014 10:58:34 GMT -5
Even if he had cut that promo perfectly...dude was still gonna lose not even three minutes later, haha. No matter what happened, he was gonna look like trash. Cesaro is not a star in WWE's eyes. They had no intent of using this promo to elevate him. It was a promo meant to set up BNB returning. Cesaro didn't matter here. It could have been Tyson Kidd or Titus O' Neil or whatever goofball lower card heel they had at the building.
He had nothing to prove because this wasn't a real opportunity for him. He was a warm body out there to get pinned. That's it.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Dec 30, 2014 11:01:03 GMT -5
So, to summarize this thread: one flub in a throwaway promo retroactively justifies WWE railroading yet another potential star? That's a funny way of looking at it. No it's WWEs fault for putting him in that position to begin with. Also did you listen to the promo? It's not just that one mistake, even without that it was a terrible promo. Didn't start well when he attacked the crowd. It was pretty obvious what WWE were trying to do with this. Again I blame WWE for this and feel sorry that WWE put him in this position.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 11:03:09 GMT -5
Yeah if he was going to lose clean anyway, what was the point of the promo? He could have outdone Punk's promo and still lost. What would it have accomplished?
If Cesaro sucks on the mic, stick a manager with him or don't let him talk. This was the WWE either trying to sabotage him by exposing his flaws or....yeah, I have nothing else. It was done with an agenda in mind.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 30, 2014 11:05:51 GMT -5
The thing is, he wouldn't need to cut this promo if WWE hadn't sabotaged his push and particularly if Vince hadn't publicly mocked him. It's a little sad to see, from all the likes, that people are falling right in line with WWE's train of though. One mistake does not mean that they were right to depush the Cesaro and it doesn't cancel out his immense value. Well he would eventually have to cut some good promos so this would be as good as time as any to show that he can do it when the boss thinks he can't. Yes. That's a great way of doing things. "Cesaro, we know we've booked you horribly for the past few months and we're sorry. So here's a promo. We can't promise a push but if you f*** up, it's all over for you and oh - you're losing. Good luck." ...Instead of, you know, following a coherent narrative and embracing a great Wrestlemania moment to build on. Besides, the idea is that because he missed the mark here, he always will, and WWE should be more conservative with their chances? Tell that to Reigns who has flubbed matches and promos.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Dec 30, 2014 11:18:02 GMT -5
Well he would eventually have to cut some good promos so this would be as good as time as any to show that he can do it when the boss thinks he can't. Yes. That's a great way of doing things. "Cesaro, we know we've booked you horribly for the past few months and we're sorry. So here's a promo. We can't promise a push but if you f*** up, it's all over for you and oh - you're losing. Good luck." ...Instead of, you know, following a coherent narrative and embracing a great Wrestlemania moment to build on. Besides, the idea is that because he missed the mark here, he always will, and WWE should be more conservative with their chances? Tell that to Reigns who has flubbed matches and promos. That promo showed the reason why Vince knows more than the fans, and why his knowledge allows him to see somewhat into the future, in terms of knowing what makes a star in the company. Firstly, there is playing to strengths, but there is also trying to make someone a massive star. I really, really like Cesaro. I really want him to be a massive star. But he's had all year to come up with something that will make him a big heel, and what does he come out with? 'I just care about the wrestling, not about you fans'. Charlie Haas tried that about 7 years ago and where did that take him? It's one thing to be a good, or even a great, wrestler. That will make you a big star in a promotion who's fans care about wrestling first and everything else second. But if you want to be a star in the WWE you've got to appeal to a broad cross section of a viewing audience. Kurt Angle was a great wrestler, but they shot him to the moon almost immediately because as well as being a great wrestler, he could portray the character of a goofball, an ass kicker, a bad ass, a comedian, etc etc. Daniel Bryan is a great wrestler. He can also portray a jerk boyfriend, a leader of a revolution, a comedian, has catchphrases etc etc. These are the things that make a top star in the WWE, not just a top star on the indies. Cesaro has talent. But he was given minutes out there to show something else, and he didn't take them. He may have to wait a little while now and be happy with his spot for that time, until his chance comes around again, because now someone else deserves it. If he knocked a promo out of the park before losing, he still would have lost. But he needs to show the decision makers why he deserves to be treated like a big star, beyond just being a good wrestler. A wrestling skill set will get you big cheers in certain cities at certain events, but a WWE star is one that can adapt to all sorts of situations. He had his minutes, and unfortunately he didn't maximise them. Vince gave him a shot, and was proved right. And I genuinely feel bad for him, but this isn't a charity, this is a business looking to make money and showcase stars to a mass audience. Cesaro isn't quite there yet.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 30, 2014 11:24:45 GMT -5
Yes. That's a great way of doing things. "Cesaro, we know we've booked you horribly for the past few months and we're sorry. So here's a promo. We can't promise a push but if you f*** up, it's all over for you and oh - you're losing. Good luck." ...Instead of, you know, following a coherent narrative and embracing a great Wrestlemania moment to build on. Besides, the idea is that because he missed the mark here, he always will, and WWE should be more conservative with their chances? Tell that to Reigns who has flubbed matches and promos. That promo showed the reason why Vince knows more than the fans, and why his knowledge allows him to see somewhat into the future, in terms of knowing what makes a star in the company. Firstly, there is playing to strengths, but there is also trying to make someone a massive star. I really, really like Cesaro. I really want him to be a massive star. But he's had all year to come up with something that will make him a big heel, and what does he come out with? 'I just care about the wrestling, not about you fans'. Charlie Haas tried that about 7 years ago and where did that take him? It's one thing to be a good, or even a great, wrestler. That will make you a big star in a promotion who's fans care about wrestling first and everything else second. But if you want to be a star in the WWE you've got to appeal to a broad cross section of a viewing audience. Kurt Angle was a great wrestler, but they shot him to the moon almost immediately because as well as being a great wrestler, he could portray the character of a goofball, an ass kicker, a bad ass, a comedian, etc etc. Daniel Bryan is a great wrestler. He can also portray a jerk boyfriend, a leader of a revolution, a comedian, has catchphrases etc etc. These are the things that make a top star in the WWE, not just a top star on the indies. Cesaro has talent. But he was given minutes out there to show something else, and he didn't take them. He may have to wait a little while now and be happy with his spot for that time, until his chance comes around again, because now someone else deserves it. If he knocked a promo out of the park before losing, he still would have lost. But he needs to show the decision makers why he deserves to be treated like a big star, beyond just being a good wrestler. A wrestling skill set will get you big cheers in certain cities at certain events, but a WWE star is one that can adapt to all sorts of situations. He had his minutes, and unfortunately he didn't maximise them. Vince gave him a shot, and was proved right. And I genuinely feel bad for him, but this isn't a charity, this is a business looking to make money and showcase stars to a mass audience. Cesaro isn't quite there yet. It comes down to this question: what's wrong with following a story that people want to see and tracking where it leads instead of derailing it and hoping that your pre-conceived, possibly bigoted notions are eventually proven right? WWE also says it's a TV show. If any writer wrote a story to their personal whims, they'd be criticized for it. I don't see the difference in this case.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 30, 2014 11:25:02 GMT -5
Y'know, I think I kinda see the logic. If they're trying to make another Bryan, then the goal is to build sympathy for Cesaro, how he's so good in the ring but held down by politics and stupid booking and an ass-backwards overfocus on "it factor." Smart internet fans are supposed to get outraged about how he's booked to lose right after pointing out how good he is; the bookers blatantly become the heels. Marks don't really know what's going on, but they do see he got cheated out of a win. The thought is, this works, next year it's fan hero Cesaro vs. Corporate Reigns.
Oh, don't get me wrong: It's a stupid goddamn idea, and they're obviously underestimating many internet fans' bizarre propensity to latch onto anything to defend the WWE's stupid policies. But it does make sense as an attempt to get him over by people determined to do so (like they were with Bryan before him) while having to work with a raving old man who really does believe these dumb things.
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BigWill
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Post by BigWill on Dec 30, 2014 11:25:55 GMT -5
So, to summarize this thread: one flub in a throwaway promo retroactively justifies WWE railroading yet another potential star? That's a funny way of looking at it. It's more like you can't be making that mistake when you are already fighting an uphill battle to prove to the people in the back you can be a main eventer. I don't see why if he's not good enough to be a main eventer, he needs to be a jobber. There's a middle ground in the WWE called being a midcarder, where he isn't losing every week to random superstars. I'd be perfectly happy if that was where Cesaro was.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 11:26:33 GMT -5
He's got a job for at least 3 or 4 or 7 more years.
Then, when they've completely worn down his credibility (and then not even used him for a year or 2), he shall be released.
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