wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Dec 30, 2014 14:02:50 GMT -5
I'm not missing it at all, I'm directly addressing it. Being a top star, the kind of star some people think Cesaro should be in the WWE, IS hard. They ARE in competition with each other to get the best spots, and they will be rewarded for it if they do. They haven't made things deliberately harder for Cesaro at all. Any time he has minutes, he has an opportunity, whether he's losing in 3 minutes or whether he gets a ten minute promo. He did well with a promo a few weeks ago on Cena, and does well in a lot of pre-tapes, but last night he didn't do well. He also hasn't found that hook that sends him from beyond being a Charlie Haas 'I'm a wrestler and don't care about the fans' to a real bona-fide star. Mizdow found a hook from losing every week and is now a champion in the company. Shelton Benjamin never found it. It is hard, but any time you have minutes on the TV screen you have the chance to be a star. And stars in WWE are people that can appeal to the mass market that they cater to. You can't get by just being a good wrestler. Kurt Angle didn't. Daniel Bryan didn't. Right now Luke Harper isn't. Yes they have to emphasise strengths, which is what they actually do for most of the roster. But within that, to reach higher, you've got to appeal to everyone, not just the fans that care about good wrestling. You have to take crap and make it gold. Kane could have been complete rubbish, but he made it work. And not only has he made it work, he's been able to show he's a destroyer, a comedian, a boyfriend, an ass kicker a tag team friend, a corporate lackey, a horror movie star, an anger management participant. It could have been complete garbage, but he's made the most of everything he's been given and that's why he is still here. Take every single guy that ever made it in WWE and they will have all connected with the mass market WWE audience in a number of ways. Take any guy that had talent but never quite stepped up and the reason will be because they never quite found that hook that meant a mass market could 'get' their character. It is a real life competition between the talent. And as Vince said on the podcast, he can't come up with the ideas for everyone, he needs the talent to step up and take the opportunities if they want it. Not everybody gets to be a star, but that doesn't mean everyone who isn't a star should be actively made to look incompetent. And yes, Daniel Bryan is over because he's a good wrestler. He's the "leader of a revolution" because he's a good wrestler and fans wanted to see a good wrestler be rewarded for his ability. Cesaro deserves the same. Maybe not a big push on Bryan's level, but he should definitely be better off than he is. No-one is making Cesaro look incompetent but Cesaro! He had 3 minutes and fluffed his lines. That's on him. He's a great wrestler, but he's just a great wrestler and not a star right now. That's also on him. But it's incredibly hard to come up with something that masses of people will like, so I don't hold that against him in a bad way. But logically speaking, it's on nobody but him. Daniel Bryan is not over just because he's a good wrestler. That's a huge part of it, but it isn't the only thing. It's the personality he shows when wrestling that allows him to connect. It was his ability to entertain as the jerk boyfriend of AJ. It was his comedic timing in his tag-team with Kane. It was his intensity when proving he wasn't the weak link. It was his ability in his match with John Cena and it was his ability to play the underdog who deserved more in his feud with the Authority. It is WAY more than simply being a good wrestler. It is identifiable character traits that allow him to connect, and fit into different storylines that require a different side to him.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 30, 2014 14:06:43 GMT -5
Yeah... but you're missing everything I said about this whole "proving yourself" thing being stupid. It's especially stupid when you deliberately make things harder for people because somehow that makes it "count" more if they do succeed. It's based around a weird obsession with there being "the guy" and with arbitrary tiers of performers. It's based around wanting to make some kind of weird real competition between wrestlers in place of the fake competition of the wrestling matches. It's ass-backwards, because the purpose is to feel like success in wrestling has some kind of legitimacy, and certainly not to put on the most entertaining show possible. I'm not missing it at all, I'm directly addressing it. Being a top star, the kind of star some people think Cesaro should be in the WWE, IS hard. They ARE in competition with each other to get the best spots, and they will be rewarded for it if they do. "The WWE's system is stupid and counterproductive." "No, because it EXISTS." At the very least, we're talking about two different things. But do you also see how you might be coming off as kinda reactionary here, not really wanting to address how things are unfair for the WWE's talent, and how like the Personal Responsibility of the performers isn't really the end-all-be-all?
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,501
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Post by kevin on Dec 30, 2014 14:48:07 GMT -5
I think firing Cesaro would be a terrible mistake the guy is an a great mid carder. I actually though his promo was fine I don't see why people hate it this much. The four ropes line four sides line was funny and well delivered.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 30, 2014 14:49:53 GMT -5
I think firing Cesaro would be a terrible mistake the guy is an a great mid carder. I actually though his promo was fine I don't see why people hate it this much. The four ropes line four sides line was funny and well delivered. Maybe firing is a poor choice of words. But maybe they should give him his release so he can go somewhere where he'd be appreciated more and used better.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 30, 2014 15:00:54 GMT -5
I think firing Cesaro would be a terrible mistake the guy is an a great mid carder. I actually though his promo was fine I don't see why people hate it this much. The four ropes line four sides line was funny and well delivered. Maybe firing is a poor choice of words. But maybe they should give him his release so he can go somewhere where he'd be appreciated more and used better. Again I don't know why Cesaro would want to be release and go to a poorer financial situation while giving up on any chance on becoming a main eventer in the WWE.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 30, 2014 15:12:35 GMT -5
Vince, why'd you join under the name wcc2? Seems pretty peculiar.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 30, 2014 15:16:51 GMT -5
Maybe firing is a poor choice of words. But maybe they should give him his release so he can go somewhere where he'd be appreciated more and used better. Again I don't know why Cesaro would want to be release and go to a poorer financial situation while giving up on any chance on becoming a main eventer in the WWE. WWE isnt using him well. And Cesaro isn't that bad off. He already built up a respectable brand on the indies under his real name before he got signed. His WWE tenure makes him even more valuable to indy promoters. Even the most ghetto bush league indy in Smalltown, Mississippi will throw a metric shit-ton of cash at him to get him on their cards. And if Cesaro saved/invested his WWE money well, he'd be better off. He can be a star while wrestling on his own terms.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 30, 2014 15:26:43 GMT -5
Again I don't know why Cesaro would want to be release and go to a poorer financial situation while giving up on any chance on becoming a main eventer in the WWE. WWE isnt using him well. And Cesaro isn't that bad off. He already built up a respectable brand on the indies under his real name before he got signed. His WWE tenure makes him even more valuable to indy promoters. Even the most ghetto bush league indy in Smalltown, Mississippi will throw a metric shit-ton of cash at him to get him on their cards. And if Cesaro saved/invested his WWE money well, he'd be better off. He can be a star while wrestling on his own terms. If he'll be so better off why hasn't he quit? That's why I doubt the money is better and I'm certain his potential earnings will be much higher in the WWE if he does breakthrough than a star in the indies.
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
This is the greatest post in the history of this board!
Posts: 4,083
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Dec 30, 2014 15:33:22 GMT -5
Vince, why'd you join under the name wcc2? Seems pretty peculiar. He's keeping an eye on us millenials and our millenial opinions about millenial Sports Entertainers(TM).
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 30, 2014 15:35:49 GMT -5
So if you're going out there to job in 3 minutes AND you're given promo time, you better knock it out of the park with your promo, otherwise next time you'll have just your 3 minute job and nothing else to stand on. I think lots of people have a problem with the entire "prove yourself" thing in the WWE, and so they're not even really talking about the same thing you are. Yes, if the system is stacked against you for stupid reasons, flubbing a line in a promo is bad. But the premise is the problem, not the conclusion. No matter what, though, it's definitely ass-backwards booking. And I'm not denying that WWE's system sucks, but unfortunately it is their system. They have every right to do things assbackwards since they think it works for them, and believe me it totally sucks. But at the end of the day you'll have to work through their stupid backassward system, and if you don't then you'll never make it. Look at guys like Punk and Bryan...they succeeded eventually but along the way they had to endure a bunch of nonsense yoyo booking and moments that made you question why they were losing in 3 minute matches, however they never f***ed around...they PROVED to the office that they can take whatever WWE gives to them. Cesaro really needs to do the same, because I trust he'll make the right adjustments before WWE does.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 30, 2014 15:49:31 GMT -5
They certainly shouldn't fire him, but they should seriously consider NXT. The crowd would love him, he'd be another great opponent for people to work with, and it would give him a place away from the main roster to really find himself as a character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 15:52:30 GMT -5
Not everybody gets to be a star, but that doesn't mean everyone who isn't a star should be actively made to look incompetent. And yes, Daniel Bryan is over because he's a good wrestler. He's the "leader of a revolution" because he's a good wrestler and fans wanted to see a good wrestler be rewarded for his ability. Cesaro deserves the same. Maybe not a big push on Bryan's level, but he should definitely be better off than he is. No-one is making Cesaro look incompetent but Cesaro! He had 3 minutes and fluffed his lines. That's on him. He's a great wrestler, but he's just a great wrestler and not a star right now. That's also on him. But it's incredibly hard to come up with something that masses of people will like, so I don't hold that against him in a bad way. But logically speaking, it's on nobody but him. Daniel Bryan is not over just because he's a good wrestler. That's a huge part of it, but it isn't the only thing. It's the personality he shows when wrestling that allows him to connect. It was his ability to entertain as the jerk boyfriend of AJ. It was his comedic timing in his tag-team with Kane. It was his intensity when proving he wasn't the weak link. It was his ability in his match with John Cena and it was his ability to play the underdog who deserved more in his feud with the Authority. It is WAY more than simply being a good wrestler. It is identifiable character traits that allow him to connect, and fit into different storylines that require a different side to him. It's also a matter of booking against guys strengths. I agree the Cesaro's promo was not good and I also agree that there has to be some accountability on wrestlers for their misgivings. But Cesaro had already arrived earlier this year. The guy who won the Andre the Giant Battle Royal was a star and it almost seemed like WWE went out of their way to expose him, and yes, if Cesaro were more talented on the mic and adapted better he'd still be a star, but it's just so stupid to build someone up like they did him just to tear him apart. They absolutely should challenge him, and push him to extend his talents more but not at the complete expense of his worth to the company the way they do it. It's unfair to him and just irresponsible of them to subject their audience to shows that for the most part seem like we're watching a bunch of spoiled kids being put on timeout.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 30, 2014 15:53:27 GMT -5
They certainly shouldn't fire him, but they should seriously consider NXT. The crowd would love him, he'd be another great opponent for people to work with, and it would give him a place away from the main roster to really find himself as a character. It would have to be a hell of a story because his arc with Sami was perfect. They should just work with him on the main roster, I feel. NXT would look a bit like a step back.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 15:56:00 GMT -5
They certainly shouldn't fire him, but they should seriously consider NXT. The crowd would love him, he'd be another great opponent for people to work with, and it would give him a place away from the main roster to really find himself as a character. I think we're slowly learning that's not the answer either though. Tyson Kidd went to NXT, reinvented himself about as perfectly as a guy could, but his existence in WWE as the neglectful husband hasn't at all been explained, he hasn't uttered a single word on TV, he's on again off again tagging with Cesaro. On NXT he's a fully fleshed out character, on WWE he's still just an interchangeable cocky heel without a voice and I just don't have high hopes that he's gonna be anything more than that.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Dec 30, 2014 15:56:33 GMT -5
I'm not missing it at all, I'm directly addressing it. Being a top star, the kind of star some people think Cesaro should be in the WWE, IS hard. They ARE in competition with each other to get the best spots, and they will be rewarded for it if they do. "The WWE's system is stupid and counterproductive." "No, because it EXISTS." At the very least, we're talking about two different things. But do you also see how you might be coming off as kinda reactionary here, not really wanting to address how things are unfair for the WWE's talent, and how like the Personal Responsibility of the performers isn't really the end-all-be-all? Ahhhhh ok, I get you now. I don't think it is stupid though. Or counterproductive. Put it this way. Being a top star in the WWE is the company saying 'Here you go, here's loads of money, loads of TV and PPV time, and loads of opportunity for you to see the world and be one of the public faces of our corporation, building your own brand in the process and allowing you to live your dream.' That's what's on offer here. And for them to get the stars they want, they need both the means of creating and promoting that star (the booking machine, the promotion through the business) as well as the talent and ability (the talent themselves). Both sides benefit if a true star is created. What a few of you guys seem to have been saying is that Cesaro has been deliberately made to look worse than his talent allows through the opportunities he has been given, and therefore the company's system is the reason he isn't a star, and that he has to therefore work extra hard to be a star and overcome obstacles that are needless. What I'm saying is that what his level of talent allows that he has demonstrated so far is that of a great wrestler, not that of a big WWE star. He's wrestled great matches and got good reactions from crowds that appreciate good wrestling, but he's never connected with the mass market WWE audience. And what I'm saying, is that he's had opportunities, he's had minutes on TV, but he hasn't made himself a star yet, despite those opportunities. And it's not all about winning and losing. You can become a star if you keep losing, and you can fail to become a star if you keep winning. Cesaro has had time to craft a character for himself all year and he's so far demonstrated nothing. And people behind the scenes evaluate talent better than we do because they see their ideas, see how they interact with decision makers and can more often than not evaluate that talent properly. They also have to know before we do whether they can last the course or whether they have hit their peak. Cesaro has not demonstrated anything that justifies him being a main eventer, or even above someone like Luke Harper right about now. And that isn't the WWE system's fault. Their system ensures that they give the money, the fame and the opportunities to the guys that are going to make the most of those opportunities. Why would they give one of these higher spots to someone who hasn't earned it yet, when there are other guys more deserving? And to be clear, simply being a good wrestler isn't enough. Especially when the roster is this talented (which again leads back into the competition being very well, if you're competition is super talented, you need to step up to compete). I think some people want, and think, the WWE should make it easy for Cesaro to become a star, and make everything simple for him. They need to create the gimmick, and they need to let him win a load of matches, and everything should be done for him. But it simply isn't possible for them to come up with a main event gimmick for every guy, and it isn't even the gimmick that matters. It's the ability to spin that gimmick into showcasing personal emotions that can connect with a mass audience. He just hasn't done that. He's a great wrestler who tells bad jokes on a Youtube show, complains on radio shows and then flubs his lines when he got given the opportunity to change his standing. I've just looked at the WWE roster and I can't think of one guy he should be above on the heel side right now. He's on the level of Curtis Axel, Titus O'Neil, Fandango and Adam Rose. Guys who are either struggling to connect, or have been repackaged and may be on their way to connecting. Why should he be above a Bo Dallas or a Luke Harper right now? He shouldn't be, because in the context of WWE, he hasn't done as much as them to connect. And actually, looking at the roster, the state of the mid-card heels in WWE means there's actually a massive opportunity to stand out, because not many of them lower down the card are connecting. He's got all the opportunity and just needs to find that hook to send him away, and once he does WWE will push him up, and he will receive the benefit of that.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 30, 2014 16:04:39 GMT -5
They certainly shouldn't fire him, but they should seriously consider NXT. The crowd would love him, he'd be another great opponent for people to work with, and it would give him a place away from the main roster to really find himself as a character. I think we're slowly learning that's not the answer either though. Tyson Kidd went to NXT, reinvented himself about as perfectly as a guy could, but his existence in WWE as the neglectful husband hasn't at all been explained, he hasn't uttered a single word on TV, he's on again off again tagging with Cesaro. On NXT he's a fully fleshed out character, on WWE he's still just an interchangeable cocky heel without a voice and I just don't have high hopes that he's gonna be anything more than that. And Kidd is different from Cesaro. Kidd was one of the small handful of serious wrestlers who were the bottom of the barrel and lower in the pecking order than the comedy jobbers before he had his NXT push. NXT helped Kidd build credibility. Cesaro has been upper midcard for his entire WWE run. The story of his previous NXT run was that he the main roster Big Bad running roughshod over developmental. It was a step up for Tyson. It would be a step down for Cesaro.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Dec 30, 2014 16:08:01 GMT -5
No-one is making Cesaro look incompetent but Cesaro! He had 3 minutes and fluffed his lines. That's on him. He's a great wrestler, but he's just a great wrestler and not a star right now. That's also on him. But it's incredibly hard to come up with something that masses of people will like, so I don't hold that against him in a bad way. But logically speaking, it's on nobody but him. Daniel Bryan is not over just because he's a good wrestler. That's a huge part of it, but it isn't the only thing. It's the personality he shows when wrestling that allows him to connect. It was his ability to entertain as the jerk boyfriend of AJ. It was his comedic timing in his tag-team with Kane. It was his intensity when proving he wasn't the weak link. It was his ability in his match with John Cena and it was his ability to play the underdog who deserved more in his feud with the Authority. It is WAY more than simply being a good wrestler. It is identifiable character traits that allow him to connect, and fit into different storylines that require a different side to him. It's also a matter of booking against guys strengths. I agree the Cesaro's promo was not good and I also agree that there has to be some accountability on wrestlers for their misgivings. But Cesaro had already arrived earlier this year. The guy who won the Andre the Giant Battle Royal was a star and it almost seemed like WWE went out of their way to expose him, and yes, if Cesaro were more talented on the mic and adapted better he'd still be a star, but it's just so stupid to build someone up like they did him just to tear him apart. They absolutely should challenge him, and push him to extend his talents more but not at the complete expense of his worth to the company the way they do it. It's unfair to him and just irresponsible of them to subject their audience to shows that for the most part seem like we're watching a bunch of spoiled kids being put on timeout. I see what you're saying, but that's it though, isn't it? The company gave him the opportunity to be showcased on the main stage at Wrestlemania. And he did well. And then in the weeks that followed, he got to win more matches, he got his segments focussed with the hashtag King of Swing and he had opportunity to keep going, but I think they didn't see much else from him. He's super strong, and he has a swing, but that's it. He got a crowd that enjoys good wrestlers and with a large European contingent to get behind him at Mania, and the company gave him the opportunity to win. Now either the company gave him that opportunity because they knew they were going to take it away from him a few weeks later, for a laugh, or they gave him that opportunity because they wanted to see him push on, and if anything he got worse. I don't think anyone is blaming him, or saying he's a bad guy, or not talented. Because he is super talented. But being a star in the WWE is a tough thing to do. But if anyone seriously thinks WWE let him win that match just for a laugh then frankly they are nuts. I think they will be as disappointed as anyone that they haven't made a star out of him yet, because it will be frustrating to see someone with all that talent and not quite know how to push him over the edge. And WWE will help him, but at the end of the day Cesaro needs to go out there and put it all together. I think Vince liked the look of him, let him win the battle royal, but then asked himself 'Now what?' and couldn't see where he takes it with Cesaro. People may say he's got rubbish music (which I absolutely agree with) or that Heyman kept talking about Brock (he didn't, he mentioned Cesaro too) but regardless, if a guy is a big star waiting to break out, stuff like that doesn't really matter. The fans will recognise it and bring that person through and make the company change their plans, whether it's their biggest story or something in the mid-card.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 30, 2014 16:14:22 GMT -5
"The WWE's system is stupid and counterproductive." "No, because it EXISTS." At the very least, we're talking about two different things. But do you also see how you might be coming off as kinda reactionary here, not really wanting to address how things are unfair for the WWE's talent, and how like the Personal Responsibility of the performers isn't really the end-all-be-all? Ahhhhh ok, I get you now. I don't think it is stupid though. Or counterproductive. Put it this way. Being a top star in the WWE is the company saying 'Here you go, here's loads of money, loads of TV and PPV time, and loads of opportunity for you to see the world and be one of the public faces of our corporation, building your own brand in the process and allowing you to live your dream.' That's what's on offer here. And for them to get the stars they want, they need both the means of creating and promoting that star (the booking machine, the promotion through the business) as well as the talent and ability (the talent themselves). Both sides benefit if a true star is created. What a few of you guys seem to have been saying is that Cesaro has been deliberately made to look worse than his talent allows through the opportunities he has been given, and therefore the company's system is the reason he isn't a star, and that he has to therefore work extra hard to be a star and overcome obstacles that are needless. What I'm saying is that what his level of talent allows that he has demonstrated so far is that of a great wrestler, not that of a big WWE star. He's wrestled great matches and got good reactions from crowds that appreciate good wrestling, but he's never connected with the mass market WWE audience. And what I'm saying, is that he's had opportunities, he's had minutes on TV, but he hasn't made himself a star yet, despite those opportunities. And it's not all about winning and losing. You can become a star if you keep losing, and you can fail to become a star if you keep winning. Cesaro has had time to craft a character for himself all year and he's so far demonstrated nothing. And people behind the scenes evaluate talent better than we do because they see their ideas, see how they interact with decision makers and can more often than not evaluate that talent properly. They also have to know before we do whether they can last the course or whether they have hit their peak. Cesaro has not demonstrated anything that justifies him being a main eventer, or even above someone like Luke Harper right about now. And that isn't the WWE system's fault. Their system ensures that they give the money, the fame and the opportunities to the guys that are going to make the most of those opportunities. Why would they give one of these higher spots to someone who hasn't earned it yet, when there are other guys more deserving? And to be clear, simply being a good wrestler isn't enough. Especially when the roster is this talented (which again leads back into the competition being very well, if you're competition is super talented, you need to step up to compete). I think some people want, and think, the WWE should make it easy for Cesaro to become a star, and make everything simple for him. They need to create the gimmick, and they need to let him win a load of matches, and everything should be done for him. But it simply isn't possible for them to come up with a main event gimmick for every guy, and it isn't even the gimmick that matters. It's the ability to spin that gimmick into showcasing personal emotions that can connect with a mass audience. He just hasn't done that. He's a great wrestler who tells bad jokes on a Youtube show, complains on radio shows and then flubs his lines when he got given the opportunity to change his standing. I've just looked at the WWE roster and I can't think of one guy he should be above on the heel side right now. He's on the level of Curtis Axel, Titus O'Neil, Fandango and Adam Rose. Guys who are either struggling to connect, or have been repackaged and may be on their way to connecting. Why should he be above a Bo Dallas or a Luke Harper right now? He shouldn't be, because in the context of WWE, he hasn't done as much as them to connect. And actually, looking at the roster, the state of the mid-card heels in WWE means there's actually a massive opportunity to stand out, because not many of them lower down the card are connecting. He's got all the opportunity and just needs to find that hook to send him away, and once he does WWE will push him up, and he will receive the benefit of that. Cesaro is way above Axel, Titus, Fandango and Rose and it's an insult to compare him to them. And hell, he's above Bo Dallas even if Bo has a better character (the entire point of Bo's character is that he's an average performer who thinks he's better than he actually is). And the heel side of the roster being as weak as it is means they should push him on the principle of him being able to put on strong matches against top faces. Cesaro can "make Roman Reigns look really strong". Even if he is constantly losing, he shouldn't be losing in three minutes and he shouldn't be the guy getting fed to debuting/returning guys.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 30, 2014 16:17:02 GMT -5
When did Heyman mention Cesaro? As a throwaway line after talking about Brock for 5 minutes? I am glad you're willing to defend your asinine booking decisions, Vinnie Mac.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Dec 30, 2014 16:34:35 GMT -5
Ahhhhh ok, I get you now. I don't think it is stupid though. Or counterproductive. Put it this way. Being a top star in the WWE is the company saying 'Here you go, here's loads of money, loads of TV and PPV time, and loads of opportunity for you to see the world and be one of the public faces of our corporation, building your own brand in the process and allowing you to live your dream.' That's what's on offer here. And for them to get the stars they want, they need both the means of creating and promoting that star (the booking machine, the promotion through the business) as well as the talent and ability (the talent themselves). Both sides benefit if a true star is created. What a few of you guys seem to have been saying is that Cesaro has been deliberately made to look worse than his talent allows through the opportunities he has been given, and therefore the company's system is the reason he isn't a star, and that he has to therefore work extra hard to be a star and overcome obstacles that are needless. What I'm saying is that what his level of talent allows that he has demonstrated so far is that of a great wrestler, not that of a big WWE star. He's wrestled great matches and got good reactions from crowds that appreciate good wrestling, but he's never connected with the mass market WWE audience. And what I'm saying, is that he's had opportunities, he's had minutes on TV, but he hasn't made himself a star yet, despite those opportunities. And it's not all about winning and losing. You can become a star if you keep losing, and you can fail to become a star if you keep winning. Cesaro has had time to craft a character for himself all year and he's so far demonstrated nothing. And people behind the scenes evaluate talent better than we do because they see their ideas, see how they interact with decision makers and can more often than not evaluate that talent properly. They also have to know before we do whether they can last the course or whether they have hit their peak. Cesaro has not demonstrated anything that justifies him being a main eventer, or even above someone like Luke Harper right about now. And that isn't the WWE system's fault. Their system ensures that they give the money, the fame and the opportunities to the guys that are going to make the most of those opportunities. Why would they give one of these higher spots to someone who hasn't earned it yet, when there are other guys more deserving? And to be clear, simply being a good wrestler isn't enough. Especially when the roster is this talented (which again leads back into the competition being very well, if you're competition is super talented, you need to step up to compete). I think some people want, and think, the WWE should make it easy for Cesaro to become a star, and make everything simple for him. They need to create the gimmick, and they need to let him win a load of matches, and everything should be done for him. But it simply isn't possible for them to come up with a main event gimmick for every guy, and it isn't even the gimmick that matters. It's the ability to spin that gimmick into showcasing personal emotions that can connect with a mass audience. He just hasn't done that. He's a great wrestler who tells bad jokes on a Youtube show, complains on radio shows and then flubs his lines when he got given the opportunity to change his standing. I've just looked at the WWE roster and I can't think of one guy he should be above on the heel side right now. He's on the level of Curtis Axel, Titus O'Neil, Fandango and Adam Rose. Guys who are either struggling to connect, or have been repackaged and may be on their way to connecting. Why should he be above a Bo Dallas or a Luke Harper right now? He shouldn't be, because in the context of WWE, he hasn't done as much as them to connect. And actually, looking at the roster, the state of the mid-card heels in WWE means there's actually a massive opportunity to stand out, because not many of them lower down the card are connecting. He's got all the opportunity and just needs to find that hook to send him away, and once he does WWE will push him up, and he will receive the benefit of that. Cesaro is way above Axel, Titus, Fandango and Rose and it's an insult to compare him to them. And hell, he's above Bo Dallas even if Bo has a better character (the entire point of Bo's character is that he's an average performer who thinks he's better than he actually is). And the heel side of the roster being as weak as it is means they should push him on the principle of him being able to put on strong matches against top faces. Cesaro can "make Roman Reigns look really strong". Even if he is constantly losing, he shouldn't be losing in three minutes and he shouldn't be the guy getting fed to debuting/returning guys. In terms of ability to perform a long pro wrestling match? He's above all of them. In terms of connecting to the mass WWE audience, he simply isn't above them. And that's what matters. He has been higher in the card and fed to the higher faces, but he's at the point now where he's either got to sink or swim. He's not a new guy with any debut protection behind him and he's had his tag run and a manager. He's been an upper mid card heel and has fallen because he hasn't gotten anything beyond a swing.
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