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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 3, 2015 9:37:05 GMT -5
I feel sorry for all the detractors who are going to be very upset when he gets cheered at the rumble and mania. Yes he needs to improve but in ring he's not too far away from Rock circa 1998, Nash circa 1995 or Warrior back in the day....mic skills are a problem but Bret, Brock, Jeff Hardy and others have overcome this through either practice, a manager, charisma and more.... Warrior, Nash and Rock were weak in the ring, Bret, Brock and Hardy were weak on the stick, Reigns is weak at both and is yet to form a true connection with the fans the way any of those talent did. The people clamouring to see Reigns main event a Wrestlemania at this point in time aren't in the audience, they're a handful of people backstage who genuinely believe that the future of the WWE can be handpicked despite the majority of their attempts to create a star that way falling flat.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 3, 2015 9:46:37 GMT -5
I do. with the right seasoning he could still be a big star but his current booking is setting him up to fail. it's going to be Sheamus all over again and we'll be stuck with Cena for another 5 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 9:49:02 GMT -5
I feel sorry for all the detractors who are going to be very upset when he gets cheered at the rumble and mania. Yes he needs to improve but in ring he's not too far away from Rock circa 1998, Nash circa 1995 or Warrior back in the day....mic skills are a problem but Bret, Brock, Jeff Hardy and others have overcome this through either practice, a manager, charisma and more.... Bret and Jeff had time to discover a personal connection on another level, and Lesnar has both a manager to fall back and the fact that, while he's not the best speaker, he's really not actually bad at it at all and he does know to do a lot of little things with his body language to help put a promo over which is a big part of why him being with Heyman works, because Lesnar knows how to sell everything Heyman's saying. As for the in-ring thing... Standards have changed. What was an acceptable match in 1991 or 1998 these days might well be considered boring and receive mocking chants, because crowds these days are pickier than they've ever really been with match quality due to how it's probably presently the company's peak as far as consistency on that front. And, again, there've already been crowds to boo him and crowds to no-sell him. Hell, on Raw this week they went from cheering for his entrance to sitting on their hands through the match to booing when he started to fight back.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 9:55:55 GMT -5
I don't get this pretend reality where we all supposedly agree that fans dislike him. I've said 1000 times before he's not my guy but I hear nothing but very strong babyface reactions for him.
This "pushed down out throats" thing is a nonsense too. It's wrestling. It's what happens. It's what's supposed to happen.
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Post by mizzziggler on Jan 3, 2015 9:56:30 GMT -5
No.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 3, 2015 10:03:02 GMT -5
I feel bad for Reigns because he's over and popular, yet people are trying their hardest to delegitimize the guy and what he's accomplished because they don't want him "stealing" the spot of one of their golden boys He's over and popular because WWE want him to be over and popular. Never understood this logic. WWE has tried to force us to like countless guys and it barely ever works. As for Reigns, I think he's great and has all the potential in the world, but at the risk of echoing everybody else, he really isn't ready yet. But in fairness, I'm not sure I would even put Ambrose or Rollins onto that rocket yet either. They're great but you want to give them a chance to prove their worth to the company, prove they can hang in the main events without the title first. Triple H gets a lot of flak on here, but he repeatedly said in his documentary that 'the guy should make the title, the title should not make the guy.' Austin was the hottest act on the show BEFORE they gave him the belt. Ditto The Rock.
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Post by edgestar on Jan 3, 2015 10:06:01 GMT -5
I feel bad, because he does seem like he's trying, but getting a Cena-type push just as Bryan is returning won't be good. (And I like both Cena and Bryan)
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 10:08:14 GMT -5
Also it does worry me a bit that guys who aren't a certain other guy will have vendetta's launched against them because they're not that other guy some people like. There are a handful of people who you can make a case of pushing; Ambrose, Bryan, Cena, Rollins, Reigns, Ziggler, Rusev - now there are pros and cons for everyone - for some the cons outweigh the pros and visa-versa. But we're in an age now where people insist/pretend that every other option other than Bryan is some outrageous, contemptuous, nonsense and that there's no logical argument for anyone else.
WWE needs more people over - faces and baby faces. In the 80s faces weren't booed because they weren't Hogan and crowd favourites in the 90s/00s were allowed to be over despite not being Stone Cold. My fear for Reigns is that he won't be allowed to get up steam by the hardcore fan base who resent the fact he isn't Bryan. I'd like to see everyone go as far as they can, booking ****-ups aside, not: "you're not him. Boo!!! Quick lets hijack the shows until they get rid of him and put him in there instead!"
Fans should be welcoming new pushees and hope it goes well not targeting them. I find Reigns as interesting as magnolia wallpaper but I can see how it benefits me if he gains traction and is successful. I don't think "you're not Dean Ambrose, get off my screen"
Yet I do kinda get he feeling others do.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 3, 2015 10:09:04 GMT -5
He's over and popular because WWE want him to be over and popular. Never understood this logic. WWE has tried to force us to like countless guys and it barely ever works. As for Reigns, I think he's great and has all the potential in the world, but at the risk of echoing everybody else, he really isn't ready yet. But in fairness, I'm not sure I would even put Ambrose or Rollins onto that rocket yet either. They're great but you want to give them a chance to prove their worth to the company, prove they can hang in the main events without the title first. Triple H gets a lot of flak on here, but he repeatedly said in his documentary that 'the guy should make the title, the title should not make the guy.' Austin was the hottest act on the show BEFORE they gave him the belt. Ditto The Rock. Hell, even Bryan was in that same boat. He was WHITE F***ING HOT for months going into SummerSlam 2013, and later WrestleMania XXX.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 10:10:48 GMT -5
Also it does worry me a bit that guys who aren't a certain other guy will have vendetta's launched against them because they're not that other guy some people like. There are a handful of people who you can make a case of pushing; Ambrose, Bryan, Cena, Rollins, Reigns, Ziggler, Rusev - now there are pros and cons for everyone - for some the cons outweigh the pros and visa-versa. But we're in an age now where people insist/pretend that every other option other than Bryan is some outrageous, contemptuous, nonsense and that there's no logical argument for anyone else. WWE needs more people over - faces and baby faces. In the 80s faces weren't booed because they weren't Hogan and crowd favourites in the 90s/00s were allowed to be over despite not being Stone Cold. My fear for Reigns is that he won't be allowed to get up steam by the hardcore fan base who resent the fact he isn't Bryan. I'd like to see everyone go as far as they can, booking ****-ups aside, not: "you're not him. Boo!!! Quick lets hijack the shows until they get rid of him and put him in there instead!" Fans should be welcoming new pushees and hope it goes well not targeting them. I find Reigns as interesting as magnolia wallpaper but I can see how it benefits me if he gains traction and is successful. I don't think "you're not Dean Ambrose, get off my screen" Yet I do kinda get he feeling others do. I honestly don't really get the line of thought. me it seems like if somebody wants to react in a certain way to someone, let them - it isn't like Bryan's the only face on the roster to get cheered at all, and the crowd probably would be okay with somebody like Ziggler or Ambrose winning instead just due to an overlap in their fanbases. At the same time though, the crowd's going to like who they're going to like, and there's no sense cheering for someone like Reigns or the Usos or something just because they're supposed to. If they don't care about somebody, why fake it? And really, that genie's never going back in the bottle. Crowds already were more and more reacting to who they wanted, but the fact that the Batista backlash worked probably changed the industry for good.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 3, 2015 11:55:44 GMT -5
The big part of all this is that there is no organic movement for Reigns to get the title and main event. He is unfortunately going wildly into the category I have mentioned here in the past: The Blatant Push. This type of push rarely works because the fans aren't clamoring for it, but instead being force fed someone. Randy Orton was really one of the first Blatant Pushes in late 2004 and fans crapped on it and they pushed Batista instead, who the fans gradually got behind as an alternative to Orton (oh the irony).
The sad thing here? The planned Orton/Batista match would have at least been two guys who are familiar with each other and could have had a pretty decent match, regardless of the hilariously bad crowd response. Their segments 1 on 1 at WM last year were perfectly fine. Lesnar/Reigns though? Oh man. That match is going to SUCK. You'll have a not ready Reigns and a totally unmotivated Lesnar in what could be his last match. It might be salvaged as a Street Fight or something but if that is a standard singles match it'll be awful.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 11:59:16 GMT -5
Also it does worry me a bit that guys who aren't a certain other guy will have vendetta's launched against them because they're not that other guy some people like. There are a handful of people who you can make a case of pushing; Ambrose, Bryan, Cena, Rollins, Reigns, Ziggler, Rusev - now there are pros and cons for everyone - for some the cons outweigh the pros and visa-versa. But we're in an age now where people insist/pretend that every other option other than Bryan is some outrageous, contemptuous, nonsense and that there's no logical argument for anyone else. WWE needs more people over - faces and baby faces. In the 80s faces weren't booed because they weren't Hogan and crowd favourites in the 90s/00s were allowed to be over despite not being Stone Cold. My fear for Reigns is that he won't be allowed to get up steam by the hardcore fan base who resent the fact he isn't Bryan. I'd like to see everyone go as far as they can, booking ****-ups aside, not: "you're not him. Boo!!! Quick lets hijack the shows until they get rid of him and put him in there instead!" Fans should be welcoming new pushees and hope it goes well not targeting them. I find Reigns as interesting as magnolia wallpaper but I can see how it benefits me if he gains traction and is successful. I don't think "you're not Dean Ambrose, get off my screen" Yet I do kinda get he feeling others do. I honestly don't really get the line of thought. me it seems like if somebody wants to react in a certain way to someone, let them - it isn't like Bryan's the only face on the roster to get cheered at all, and the crowd probably would be okay with somebody like Ziggler or Ambrose winning instead just due to an overlap in their fanbases. At the same time though, the crowd's going to like who they're going to like, and there's no sense cheering for someone like Reigns or the Usos or something just because they're supposed to. If they don't care about somebody, why fake it? And really, that genie's never going back in the bottle. Crowds already were more and more reacting to who they wanted, but the fact that the Batista backlash worked probably changed the industry for good. It's not a matter of anyone saying "People can't like X because they like Y" it's a matter of there are plenty of people here and other places who are doing their damndest to make it seem like Roman Reigns is awful and no one likes him entirely because they want someone else main eventing WrestleMania. And let's be real here, SO many people complain CONSTANTLY about WWE not trying to create new stars. Well here we have a guy that's over, he has the look, he has the presence, the crowd reacts to his power moves, he's already gotten some big moments in his career, and WWE wants to pull the trigger on him to try and create this new star and all those people who moan about no new stars are the first ones to say "f*** YOU WWE PUSH SOMEONE ELSE" It's all because "Push new stars" has always been a farce created by people who want certain guys to be pushed without wanting to say "I want X to be pushed because I like him" It's been like that for many many years and it's not going away any time soon. That's why I feel bad for Reigns and get bothered by the reaction some people are giving him, like it's his fault WWE wants to push him -_-
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tms
Don Corleone
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Post by tms on Jan 3, 2015 12:48:07 GMT -5
If he really is being set up to definitively pin Brock Lesnar, it's going to be a train wreck.
Where does he go from there, after defeating the (kayfabe AND IRL) most formidable opponent the company has arguably ever had? This whole thing is comically shortsighted. It's the equivalent of Superman beating Darkseid and then expecting fans to believe he's going to struggle against Kalibak or some other 3rd-tier character.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Jan 3, 2015 13:01:40 GMT -5
I don't get this pretend reality where we all supposedly agree that fans dislike him. I've said 1000 times before he's not my guy but I hear nothing but very strong babyface reactions for him. This "pushed down out throats" thing is a nonsense too. It's wrestling. It's what happens. It's what's supposed to happen. As Catch_Us said others would benefit from the WWE machine being behind them. Guys like Cesaro and Big E would benefit greatly from that protected booking and they sure as hell excel at everything Reigns isn't good at. WWE need to make everyone in the uppercard look like equal stars to Cena and Bryan. WWE doesn't know how to share the wealth with their stars. Only 4-5 guys get the protected spot. And someone like Daniel Bryan had to have the show shitted on on a weekly basis until management found a way to fix their mistakes.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 3, 2015 13:05:21 GMT -5
I feel bad because he's not ready, his matches are gonna with Demon Kane and Big Show and they're gonna be straight up donkey dick because they want his matches to be in that same Even Steven WWE style match when HE'S NOT THAT f***ING GUY TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF MATCH YET, then they're gonna say it's his fault for sucking, then he'll be lucky to get a second chance if he improves after they drop his ass. Remember McIntyre's second chance after improving? Oh nope, comedy jobber then pink slip. Remember Masters' second chance? Oh nope, Superstars then pink slip.
Not like he'll be fired, but good luck with him being anything other than that guy they trout out to beat up Fandango and Miz at 9:30 on Raw.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Jan 3, 2015 13:08:08 GMT -5
I feel bad because he's not ready, his matches are gonna with Demon Kane and Big Show and they're gonna be straight up donkey dick because they want his matches to be in that same Even Steven WWE style match when HE'S NOT THAT f***ING GUY TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF MATCH YET, then they're gonna say it's his fault for sucking, then he'll be lucky to get a second chance if he improves after they drop his ass. Remember McIntyre's second chance after improving? Oh nope, comedy jobber then pink slip. Remember Masters' second chance? Oh nope, Superstars then pink slip. Not like he'll be fired, but good luck with him being anything other than that guy they trout out to beat up Fandango and Miz at 9:30 on Raw. So Sheamus lite without all the skills of Sheamus. So is that below uppercard?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 13:17:31 GMT -5
If he really is being set up to definitively pin Brock Lesnar, it's going to be a train wreck. Where does he go from there, after defeating the (kayfabe AND IRL) most formidable opponent the company has arguably ever had? This whole thing is comically shortsighted. It's the equivalent of Superman beating Darkseid and then expecting fans to believe he's going to struggle against Kalibak or some other 3rd-tier character. All you're saying here is that no one should beat Lesnar because literally anyone else would have the same exact issue in your opinion
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 3, 2015 13:18:32 GMT -5
I feel bad because he's not ready, his matches are gonna with Demon Kane and Big Show and they're gonna be straight up donkey dick because they want his matches to be in that same Even Steven WWE style match when HE'S NOT THAT f***ING GUY TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF MATCH YET, then they're gonna say it's his fault for sucking, then he'll be lucky to get a second chance if he improves after they drop his ass. Remember McIntyre's second chance after improving? Oh nope, comedy jobber then pink slip. Remember Masters' second chance? Oh nope, Superstars then pink slip. Not like he'll be fired, but good luck with him being anything other than that guy they trout out to beat up Fandango and Miz at 9:30 on Raw. So Sheamus lite without all the skills of Sheamus. So is that below uppercard? You know the spot Ryback's in? That spot. The Shield put him too high to fall all the way down like Ryder level, but you'll probably see him working with gus like Cesaro and Kidd more if this push fails so he's kept out of the spotlight and can learn singles matches better. Don't get me wrong, I like the dude a lot and I don't want him to fail, but to quote Hulk Hogan, he's just not ready brother.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Jan 3, 2015 13:53:33 GMT -5
Sure, I mean if he's a cool guy in real life which none of us can know, assuming he is I feel kind of bad for him to be in a tough position like this (at the same time he is living the dream of being a WWE superstar and getting pushed so). I dont think anyone here takes things personally, we all know it's WWE who constantly mess things up for the most part, except for those weird random posts you see every now and again from people saying stuff like "I hope X gets fired, I hate him so much." I mean most of us dont want to see the likes of Kane or Show anymore but most rational people can distinguish between seeing a character on TV who we're bored of and the real person who we dont really know.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 3, 2015 14:15:53 GMT -5
No.
He's in a great spot. Even if they do overpush him, and crowds react poorly, clearly they're behind him enough to weather that.
Presumably they won't cut him off at the knees like a Cesaro.
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