wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
|
Post by wcc2 on Jan 3, 2015 14:30:38 GMT -5
Can someone quantify exactly what 'not ready' means?
As far as I can see, he's believable, he looks like he could beat people up with a power move set, he gets good reactions, he has presence. He can talk.
I'm not convinced they are going to have him beat Brock at Mania but at the end of the day, if they do it, he's about as ready as anyone not called Cena or Bryan. (I think it's likely they go with Bryan anyway)
This idea that the crowd isn't getting behind him is completely false, because they are. Yes he's getting pushed, and I think it's a consequence of kayfabe being well and truly dead in this day and age that small sections find something to pick at with this. They want new stars, and here is one with presence, charisma and a consistent connection with the crowd. If they want to push him that shouldn't be a problem.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 3, 2015 14:31:40 GMT -5
I feel bad that everybody is on his dick, including this forum. Get off dude's jock.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 14:35:20 GMT -5
This idea that the crowd isn't getting behind him is completely false, because they are. Exactly. This is what I don't understand. It's as if we're supposed to believe the fans have/are turning on him because people want it to be so. It might well end up being the case but it's bizarre that there seems to be some kind of mutually-agreed self-indoctrination that it's happened and everyone speaks of it as fact.
|
|
MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
|
Post by MrBRulzOK on Jan 3, 2015 14:49:15 GMT -5
The problem with Reign is that he really isn't doing anything any better than most guys on the roster.
He sells alot of merchandise? So does Ambrose.
He always gets a good pop on television? So does Ziggler.
Sure, he has a great look, but he's no good at all with promos. And in the world that WWE has established where every main eventer has to be able to cut these long, winding twenty minute promos at the start of every show I guarantee you the guy is just not going to cut it. At least not right now.
He's also not getting people behind him in his matches whenever his opponents work him over. That's important too because if you've got a guy and the crowd is just sitting on their hands while he gets beaten up, that says to me that the crowd really doesn't care about him at all, which is a problem. It also doesn't help that they have him out there going even steven with guys like FANDANGO. I like Fandango, but that's just ridiculous.
Not to mention they've put Bryan in the Rumble, and I guarantee you that he's gonna overshadow Reigns easy. Even if Roman does win the match, chances are people won't focus on Reigns winning the match, but more on how Bryan didn't win. And they'll take that frustration out on Reigns. Just like when Sheamus beat Bryan in 18 seconds where you would've thought that would've been beneficial to Sheamus, but instead it pretty much derailed his momentum.
Honestly I do feel bad for Reigns because not all of this is his fault, but something tells me he's gonna have a rough road to the Rumble.
|
|
|
Post by Kay Faban on Jan 3, 2015 14:54:03 GMT -5
I feel bad for him because he is super over, which is the only thing that actually matters in wrestling, and people on here keep telling me he is doing bad.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 14:54:33 GMT -5
The problem with Reign is that he really isn't doing anything any better than most guys on the roster. He sells alot of merchandise? So does Ambrose. He always gets a good pop on television? So does Ziggler. I think they prefer it if more than one guy does both of these
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 3, 2015 14:55:28 GMT -5
I feel a lot more sorry for the guys they've sabotaged while grooming Reigns for this spot. Ambrose was white hot, and they blatantly and intentionally cooled him off in a hurry after Hell in a Cell. Then there's Cesaro, whose situation could only be described as sabotage. "You got over turning face at WrestleMania? Well, now you're a heel again. Crowd loves that swing? Stop doing that. Enjoy your terrible entrance music. Oh, and did you know that Paul Heyman's client Brock Lesnar conquered The Undertaker's undefeated streak at WrestleMania?"
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 14:56:32 GMT -5
I feel bad for him because he is super over, which is the only thing that actually matters in wrestling, and people on here keep telling me he is doing bad. It's a case of wanting something to be true and thinking that saying it enough will make it so. Reigns having the crowd turn on him and cheer for Bryan over him at the Rumble isn't a prediction or conjecture - it's happened.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 14:58:55 GMT -5
Can someone quantify exactly what 'not ready' means? As far as I can see, he's believable, he looks like he could beat people up with a power move set, he gets good reactions, he has presence. He can talk. I'm not convinced they are going to have him beat Brock at Mania but at the end of the day, if they do it, he's about as ready as anyone not called Cena or Bryan. (I think it's likely they go with Bryan anyway) This idea that the crowd isn't getting behind him is completely false, because they are. Yes he's getting pushed, and I think it's a consequence of kayfabe being well and truly dead in this day and age that small sections find something to pick at with this. They want new stars, and here is one with presence, charisma and a consistent connection with the crowd. If they want to push him that shouldn't be a problem. He has presence and charisma, sure, but he can't work a match and he can't cut a promo. As it stands he's basically incapable of doing the job on a high profile level, which is what people mean when they say he isn't ready. And for that matter he doesn't have an identity or personality beyond, "The Shield sure was cool, huh?"
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 15:07:05 GMT -5
Can someone quantify exactly what 'not ready' means? As far as I can see, he's believable, he looks like he could beat people up with a power move set, he gets good reactions, he has presence. He can talk. I'm not convinced they are going to have him beat Brock at Mania but at the end of the day, if they do it, he's about as ready as anyone not called Cena or Bryan. (I think it's likely they go with Bryan anyway) This idea that the crowd isn't getting behind him is completely false, because they are. Yes he's getting pushed, and I think it's a consequence of kayfabe being well and truly dead in this day and age that small sections find something to pick at with this. They want new stars, and here is one with presence, charisma and a consistent connection with the crowd. If they want to push him that shouldn't be a problem. He has presence and charisma, sure, but he can't work a match and he can't cut a promo. As it stands he's basically incapable of doing the job on a high profile level, which is what people mean when they say he isn't ready. And for that matter he doesn't have an identity or personality beyond, "The Shield sure was cool, huh?" I'd agree his promos aren't very good. If he can "work a match" isn't really relevant if we're honest. The pretence that in-ring talent has anything to do with ability to draw or suitability on the top of the card is sweet but fanciful. Look at Hogan and Austin, both capable of more than they gave in their top-run in terms of in-ring ability (Austin FAR more) but never really ever needed it.
|
|
|
Post by Kay Faban on Jan 3, 2015 15:37:58 GMT -5
I imagine this is sorta how it happened with Cena. I wasn't around then, but I was on boards when The Rock started getting hot as a baby face and the resentment started and people thought it was dumb to push him over guys who were better in the ring.
|
|
|
Post by angryfan on Jan 3, 2015 15:41:47 GMT -5
He has presence and charisma, sure, but he can't work a match and he can't cut a promo. As it stands he's basically incapable of doing the job on a high profile level, which is what people mean when they say he isn't ready. And for that matter he doesn't have an identity or personality beyond, "The Shield sure was cool, huh?" I'd agree his promos aren't very good. If he can "work a match" isn't really relevant if we're honest. The pretence that in-ring talent has anything to do with ability to draw or suitability on the top of the card is sweet but fanciful. Look at Hogan and Austin, both capable of more than they gave in their top-run in terms of in-ring ability (Austin FAR more) but never really ever needed it. I've made the comparison repeatedly at this point but I think it applies here. Reigns, prior to his solo run, was the hot tag act in a very over an successful group/team. He was the modern equivalent of a Robert Gibson or Terry Gordy. Both of those men sold as main eventers, both of them made a shitload of money, both of them drew. Thing is, both of them drew as part of the act, as either the "here we go, it's on now" babyface after the hot tag, or as the "oh my God, someone's going to die" heel. Now both could, and did, work as solo acts, but both of them had success as a solo act before finding their niche. Reigns absolutely doesn't have that benefit. He's the hot tag guy with the power move set and a good look. He can cut short, effective promos (see his work with The Shield when he would be the smooth talker who didn't say much but made what he said matter), but unless the plan is to Goldberg him (show no weakness, wreck people, rinse, repeat) then we have a problem. Hell, even if that IS the plan, we have a problem. We have one because, when the unstoppable badass finally gets stopped, then what? Yes, we can look back to "Reigns last stand" with the Wyatts and see that he got a pop for going down swinging, but that was built on two guys who were also over taking hellacious beatings in an absolute war, with Reigns following suit after a valiant effort. When he's out there alone, there is no buffer, there is no one to make his valiant effort meaningful because the "hot tag" ain't coming. I'm not saying he "sucks", I'm not saying he doesn't have a ton of potential, but if we're going to the "well, other guys didn't do much and they got over huge", while using as examples the two biggest draws WWF/E has ever had, then that should speak volumes. By that very logic, Reigns either is going to be the next huge breakout main event draw, bigger than Cena could ever hope to be in terms of bringing in the audience, or he is an absolute bust, because "other guys have gotten over while being limited".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 15:55:59 GMT -5
I imagine this is sorta how it happened with Cena. I wasn't around then, but I was on boards when The Rock started getting hot as a baby face and the resentment started and people thought it was dumb to push him over guys who were better in the ring. Cena beginning to show his deficiencies in the ring was certainly a big part of it, but the main reasons it seemed to happen were them stripping away everything that got him over in the first place and putting him exclusively against people the crowd liked more. I can pretty easily see both of those being done to Reigns. We've seen how much WWE loves guys who are a low-rent Rock, if Reigns wins the Rumble he'll suddenly be calling Lesnar a monkeybutt or something the next night.
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 3, 2015 16:21:47 GMT -5
I do. I feel like he's being pushed for reasons that have little to do with his talent. Like his family and his looks.
I think he's more than capable of being "the guy" I just think they're not going to let him get there naturally and mess his momentum up.
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 3, 2015 16:23:33 GMT -5
I do. I feel like he's being pushed for reasons that have little to do with his talent. Like his family and his looks.I think he's more than capable of being "the guy" I just think they're not going to let him get there naturally and mess his momentum up. This is why I can't like him even though I want to.
|
|
wildchair
Tommy Wiseau
A fan of the WWF/WWE since 1982
Posts: 77
|
Post by wildchair on Jan 3, 2015 16:26:07 GMT -5
Roman cannot wrestle and the WWE is exposing him too quickly. He is going to be an awesome act - 5 years from now he will be Hogan/Rock/Cena level. WWE is pushing him too hard and when you push things too hard that cannot take it they tend to break.
|
|
tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
|
Post by tms on Jan 3, 2015 16:54:09 GMT -5
If he really is being set up to definitively pin Brock Lesnar, it's going to be a train wreck. Where does he go from there, after defeating the (kayfabe AND IRL) most formidable opponent the company has arguably ever had? This whole thing is comically shortsighted. It's the equivalent of Superman beating Darkseid and then expecting fans to believe he's going to struggle against Kalibak or some other 3rd-tier character. All you're saying here is that no one should beat Lesnar because literally anyone else would have the same exact issue in your opinion Not what I'm saying at all. Roman's big match "resume", if you will, is wafer-thin. Let's compare him to Goldberg. Even though Goldberg came into the wrestling scene out of nowhere (like Reigns and the Shield), he gradually defeated an increasingly impressive list of opponents before taking down the biggest, most established heel in the company in Hogan. It's as if the WWE and certain fans want to condense that entire feud into the beginning and the end and leave out everything that happened in between. There isn't anything organic about this at all. It doesn't help that Lesnar is vastly superior to Reigns in every category.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Jan 3, 2015 17:05:29 GMT -5
Each guy is different though. Sometimes the quick acceleration is right for the character. Goldberg didn't have two years as a member of a top tag-team on television. Undertaker got title shot (and brief run) a year after he turned up in the company - Savage had to wait 3 years. You can't look at anyone previous as a blueprint as the right of wrong way to go. The fans will tell you if it's right or not.
|
|
|
Post by Kay Faban on Jan 3, 2015 17:34:00 GMT -5
Each guy is different though. Sometimes the quick acceleration is right for the character. Goldberg didn't have two years as a member of a top tag-team on television. Undertaker got title shot (and brief run) a year after he turned up in the company - Savage had to wait 3 years. You can't look at anyone previous as a blueprint as the right of wrong way to go. The fans will tell you if it's right or not. You're right. I guess I wish more people would realize or admit that the actual only thing that really matters is how over he is. If he's average in the ring and below average on the mic but his high spots and physical charisma keep him super over than he is in fact ready to be a top guy.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 3, 2015 18:19:39 GMT -5
He's not overwhelmingly the most over guy. I'm a big fan, but it's easy to see that. He's over, but fans aren't just clamoring for him like they did for say a Goldberg during that push. Not yet anyway.
|
|