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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 17, 2015 20:31:33 GMT -5
Youth today suck(I sound old) why punish the wining team? Because oh they hurt the feelings of a worse team. Boo f***ing hoo! I bet you the team that scored 2 points get a trophy or ribbons or some other stupid shit to reward failure. If I could like this post 6 times, I would. I HATE the "everyone gets a trophy, so no one really loses!" mentality.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 17, 2015 20:48:45 GMT -5
When you're winning by tht much at half-time, just hold onto the ball. Pass it around, work on movement, milk the clock as much as you can. You don't need to play like it's the buzzer at that point, don't be stupid and risk injury by playing full bore. I don't know if California high school basketball has a shot clock or not.
I don't know when the concept of sportsmanship transformed into pussification, but I'm sure the concept of being a good sport has been around longer than all of us have been alive. It's not about everyone getting a trophy (which I don't agree with) to me, it's about sports not being the "OMG most super important thing in the world!"
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 17, 2015 21:01:07 GMT -5
When you're winning by tht much at half-time, just hold onto the ball. Pass it around, work on movement, milk the clock as much as you can. You don't need to play like it's the buzzer at that point, don't be stupid and risk injury by playing full bore. I don't know if California high school basketball has a shot clock or not. I don't know when the concept of sportsmanship transformed into pussification, but I'm sure the concept of being a good sport has been around longer than all of us have been alive. It's not about everyone getting a trophy (which I don't agree with) to me, it's about sports not being the "OMG most super important thing in the world!" Yeah. I'm not sure how old guys thinking kids have it easy these days means this is okay. This is being a bad sport and an asshole. I've been on the "good" side of blow outs. I felt awful if we kept rubbing in. Losing instills a lesson. This just is unfounded.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jan 17, 2015 21:08:53 GMT -5
Youth today suck(I sound old) why punish the wining team? Because oh they hurt the feelings of a worse team. Boo f***ing hoo! I bet you the team that scored 2 points get a trophy or ribbons or some other stupid shit to reward failure. If I could like this post 6 times, I would. I HATE the "everyone gets a trophy, so no one really loses!" mentality. Noone is saying give the other team a trophy. This is just exaggerating what happened to downplay what is nothing more than a case of poor sportsmanship in victory. I am not saying the worse team shouldn't lose or feel bad. What I am saying is that the winning coach took liberties (to use wrestling terminology) to prove something that didn't need proving. He is a coach at a learning level not a pro-level and while it isn't his job to teach the other team it is his job to teach his team and I don't see what they could possibly have learned with a drubbing like that. I mean it could have been treated as a scrimmage to work on weaknesses instead of proving your full court press is best. Those are the games to push your stars out of their comfort zones before they are forced out by better players, which will probably eventually happen. These are games to let your next gen players get some spotlight time. Hell suit up your towel boy for his dedication and let him take a few shots.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 17, 2015 21:09:16 GMT -5
I liked the last video so much I want another!
Stuff like this never gets old.
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Post by Unaffiliated on Jan 17, 2015 21:27:44 GMT -5
To me, bad sportsmanship would have been celebrating every basket in their opponents' faces or some other over-the-top way.
I would agree to disagree on this, but like I've said earlier, the score isn't everything. It could have been 20-2 by pulling starters, running down the clock, deliberately not scoring,... but they still would have shown that it could have been 161 if they wanted to. I don't see the difference between that and actually making it 161-2. If the losing team were to get so upset about that, they should have found more closely-matched opponents.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 17, 2015 21:28:39 GMT -5
If I could like this post 6 times, I would. I HATE the "everyone gets a trophy, so no one really loses!" mentality. Noone is saying give the other team a trophy. This is just exaggerating what happened to downplay what is nothing more than a case of poor sportsmanship in victory. I am not saying the worse team shouldn't lose or feel bad. What I am saying is that the winning coach took liberties (to use wrestling terminology) to prove something that didn't need proving. He is a coach at a learning level not a pro-level and while it isn't his job to teach the other team it is his job to teach his team and I don't see what they could possibly have learned with a drubbing like that. I mean it could have been treated as a scrimmage to work on weaknesses instead of proving your full court press is best. Those are the games to push your stars out of their comfort zones before they are forced out by better players, which will probably eventually happen. These are games to let your next gen players get some spotlight time. Hell suit up your towel boy for his dedication and let him take a few shots. Exactly. This was such a mismatch that you could have deliberately played girls at different positions to see how they handle it.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jan 17, 2015 21:47:53 GMT -5
To me, bad sportsmanship would have been celebrating every basket in their opponents' faces or some other over-the-top way. I would agree to disagree on this, but like I've said earlier, the score isn't everything. It could have been 20-2 by pulling starters, running down the clock, deliberately not scoring,... but they still would have shown that it could have been 161 if they wanted to. I don't see the difference between that and actually making it 161-2. If the losing team were to get so upset about that, they should have found more closely-matched opponents. Unfortunately, teams don't get to make their own schedule. In an ideal world these two teams should not be scheduled, however in highschool sports with limited public funded budgets, scheduling is often determined more by proximity then by talent levels. So sometimes you get lopsided match ups. It happens a lot actually, but the reason so few make news is because most coaches know better than to be dicks for stats. It does seem about once every few years some coach does decide to be a show off and usually ends up getting some sort of punishment for it, then all the other coaches behave for a few years again.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Jan 17, 2015 21:53:45 GMT -5
Noone is saying give the other team a trophy. This is just exaggerating what happened to downplay what is nothing more than a case of poor sportsmanship in victory. I am not saying the worse team shouldn't lose or feel bad. What I am saying is that the winning coach took liberties (to use wrestling terminology) to prove something that didn't need proving. He is a coach at a learning level not a pro-level and while it isn't his job to teach the other team it is his job to teach his team and I don't see what they could possibly have learned with a drubbing like that. I mean it could have been treated as a scrimmage to work on weaknesses instead of proving your full court press is best. Those are the games to push your stars out of their comfort zones before they are forced out by better players, which will probably eventually happen. These are games to let your next gen players get some spotlight time. Hell suit up your towel boy for his dedication and let him take a few shots. Exactly. This was such a mismatch that you could have deliberately played girls at different positions to see how they handle it. Do we know for a fact he didn't? I don't recall anything of the sort in the article, though I admittedly only skimmed through it.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jan 17, 2015 22:07:11 GMT -5
I apologize and thank you for the clarification, I'm not sure how Cali HS Sports does it, and correct me if I am wrong but I'd imagine the coaches have less to do with the scheduling then the AD's and other higher ups. They might make suggestions and it seems that these two coaches knew this match was one-sided going in. It was mentioned how the winning team wanted to treat it as a warm up scrim before a bigger game so that makes some sense. To bad they instead decided to turn it into drawn out squash.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 17, 2015 22:33:44 GMT -5
To me, bad sportsmanship would have been celebrating every basket in their opponents' faces or some other over-the-top way. I would agree to disagree on this, but like I've said earlier, the score isn't everything. It could have been 20-2 by pulling starters, running down the clock, deliberately not scoring,... but they still would have shown that it could have been 161 if they wanted to. I don't see the difference between that and actually making it 161-2. If the losing team were to get so upset about that, they should have found more closely-matched opponents. Feel free to disagree, but I see it similar to a situation like if you screwed up at work. If your boss brought you into his office and talked to you, it'd sting and be embarassing, but it'd be more insulting/humiliating if your boss chewed you out on the floor in front of all your coworkers. In one case, people forget in an hour or two, in the other, they tell everyone at home what happened. Yes, the end result is the same, but the way they went about it is completely different. They knew before tipoff that the game was a mismatch, Bloomington is a small unincorporated community and San Bernadino is one of Californias larger cities, but actually doing so made this a story, rather than a line on page 7 of the sports page. It goes from being a humiliating loss to a stat/nationwide declaration of some kids complete and total incompetence. It's true that a closer score doesn't mean more equally talented schools, but the score is what gets recorded in the end, and it's what's broadcast for the world to see. And it's not always that easy to schedule close to your talent level, especially for a poorer school that might have to take things like travel costs into account. I'd imagine this game was scheduled because Bloomington couldn't afford to travel very far, and Arroyo wanted an easy win.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 17, 2015 22:41:50 GMT -5
To me, bad sportsmanship would have been celebrating every basket in their opponents' faces or some other over-the-top way. I would agree to disagree on this, but like I've said earlier, the score isn't everything. It could have been 20-2 by pulling starters, running down the clock, deliberately not scoring,... but they still would have shown that it could have been 161 if they wanted to. I don't see the difference between that and actually making it 161-2. If the losing team were to get so upset about that, they should have found more closely-matched opponents. Feel free to disagre, but I see it similar to a situation like if you screwed up at work. If your boss brought you into your office and talked to you, it'd sting and be embarassing, but it'd be more insulting/humiliating if your boss chewed you out on the floor in front of all your coworkers. In one case, people forget in an hour or two, in the other, they tell everyone at home what happened. Yes, the end result is the same, but the way they went about it is completely different. They knew before tipoff that the game was a mismatch, Bloomington is a small unincorporated community and San Bernadino is one of Californias larger cities, but actually doing so made this a story, rather than a line on page 7 of the sports page. It goes from being a humiliating loss to a stat/nationwide declaration of your complete and total incompetence. And it's not always that easy to schedule close to your talent level, especially for a poorer school that might have to take things like travel costs into account. I spent a little time looking into the logistics last night. Both schools are in the same county, so it would have been a little unusual for them to have not played each other. While San Bernadino is 10X the size of Bloomington, both schools have about the same # of students and both actually seem to have some success in sports, albeit in different sports. The talent pool should have been similar for both schools, but it is obvious that Arroyo actually spent money on girls basketball for facilities, equipment, and development opportunities while Bloomington clearly has not. This means that, on average, Arroyo should have better, more experienced girls for their ball team. Obviously the difference is even larger than you might assume.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Jan 18, 2015 8:32:31 GMT -5
I don't want to get into the arguments that have heated this thread. I'm just stating my own position and in no way intend disrespect or malice in my response. I am not targeting anyone's responses:
I've been on winning teams and losing teams. Losing sucks but winning in a way that makes you feel bad is worse. You feel like a bully. Not everyone should get a trophy for just being there in sports but they need to learn things from organized sport or competition. This is why youth sports exist at all. When someone is being outclassed this badly, stop the game. Were I a coach I would (unless I was coaching against Ohio State, Texas, USC or FSU, I'd run it to 1002 if I could). I am a great believer in sportsmanship and that is what should get taught in youth sports. Blow outs like this run counter to that idea. I am not mad at the coach but the school district knew this would get wide press coverage and had make a statement if this did not line up with the core values of the district. Apparently they felt it did not and warranted the message/suspension.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jan 18, 2015 8:55:07 GMT -5
I hate the fear today that if someone loses they're going to get upset and their feelings hurt.
The soccer team I played for as a kid regularly lost 10-0 and more. I played in goal. I was responsible for letting in 10 goals on a regular basis and I didn't start crying about it and get my feelings hurt and, I honestly doubt the kids on this team are going to be upset about losing.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Jan 18, 2015 9:27:02 GMT -5
I hate the fear today that if someone loses they're going to get upset and their feelings hurt. The soccer team I played for as a kid regularly lost 10-0 and more. I played in goal. I was responsible for letting in 10 goals on a regular basis and I didn't start crying about it and get my feelings hurt and, I honestly doubt the kids on this team are going to be upset about losing. And the people who's concern is feelings are missing the point of sportsmanship as well. It isn't about someone being hurt. I get the psychological angle they re playing at but I believe that still misses the point
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 18, 2015 9:58:02 GMT -5
Good team beats poor team, feelings are hurt, someone gets in trouble.
Doesnt seem right to me, you play to win, or you dont play, and when you are that good, remind everyone so you become THE team.
You dont succeed in life letting others off lightly in case feelings get hurt. Get better, or continue to lose.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Jan 18, 2015 10:08:06 GMT -5
Good team beats poor team, feelings are hurt, someone gets in trouble. Doesnt seem right to me, you play to win, or you dont play, and when you are that good, remind everyone so you become THE team. You dont succeed in life letting others off lightly in case feelings get hurt. Get better, or continue to lose. That isn't even close to why this is in the news. That is a headline drive by bullet point. It is Not about feelings. It is sportsmanship and knowing when enough is enough. If it is utterly in hand by that drastic a margin than go to center court, shake hands and be mature enough to say its done. That is on both coaches and any administrator who was present. 161-2 is different from a normal blow out say 70-41. You don't stop that game because there are still things to learn in losing lopsided. But those rare absolute destructions like the one pointed out here, are unnecessary and not because it hurts feelings. Youth sports are teaching tools and a school district sanctioning something that drastic that would have gotten no kidding national news even w/o the suspension, would be the wrong lesson. The core values of the institution that teaches would not allow for that kind of game to represent them. They acted appropriately. They didn't fire him, nobody died and nobody is going to die because of it.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jan 18, 2015 10:28:24 GMT -5
I hate the fear today that if someone loses they're going to get upset and their feelings hurt. The soccer team I played for as a kid regularly lost 10-0 and more. I played in goal. I was responsible for letting in 10 goals on a regular basis and I didn't start crying about it and get my feelings hurt and, I honestly doubt the kids on this team are going to be upset about losing. And the people who's concern is feelings are missing the point of sportsmanship as well. It isn't about someone being hurt. I get the psychological angle they re playing at but I believe that still misses the point Why is it poor sportsmanship to win? Sports are competitive. Honestly, I'd more insulted if I played for a team and the opponents decided to go easy on us because we're shit and they were winning by a wide score. Really, stepping off the gas is just saying "your so shit we don't even have to try" which is much more insulting and embarrassing than playing all out for the entire game. Besides, the girls on the other team wanted to win. Imagine you played for that team and were the girl who scored 90 points in a single game; how proud you would be. It's not fair on them if the coach said "Susan, don't score any more. Give them a chance". It hinders her opportunity to get goals, break records, become the league's top scorer, reach the school's record of points scored, have a story to tell her kids, impress any scouts watching the game etc.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jan 18, 2015 10:33:13 GMT -5
Good team beats poor team, feelings are hurt, someone gets in trouble. Doesnt seem right to me, you play to win, or you dont play, and when you are that good, remind everyone so you become THE team. You dont succeed in life letting others off lightly in case feelings get hurt. Get better, or continue to lose. That isn't even close to why this is in the news. That is a headline drive by bullet point. It is Not about feelings. It is sportsmanship and knowing when enough is enough. If it is utterly in hand by that drastic a margin than go to center court, shake hands and be mature enough to say its done. That is on both coaches and any administrator who was present. 161-2 is different from a normal blow out say 70-41. You don't stop that game because there are still things to learn in losing lopsided. But those rare absolute destructions like the one pointed out here, are unnecessary and not because it hurts feelings. Youth sports are teaching tools and a school district sanctioning something that drastic that would have gotten no kidding national news even w/o the suspension, would be the wrong lesson. The core values of the institution that teaches would not allow for that kind of game to represent them. They acted appropriately. They didn't fire him, nobody died and nobody is going to die because of it. Except the lesson taught here is 'don't try too hard and play to your full potential every game else your coach might get in trouble and people call you unsporting.....despite the fact you have clearly worked damn hard to be better than everyone else. We should be celebrating this excellent team and their clearly inspiring coach, not knocking him down because he played his team, rightly, to teach the lesson that you dont take it easy on people, you beat them and you keep on beating them until they get better or you are at the top because you worked hard to be the best. In sport, as in life, the winner should never decide enough is enough, it's for the loser to quit or work to get better, never the winner to ease off. You don't limit those that are good because they are good just in case those that are not so good feel bad about it. You work everyone hard, at all times, and either people get better or they go find the thing they are better at.
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Jan 18, 2015 10:56:01 GMT -5
Life sometimes kicks your ass HARD. This was a learning moment for both teams. All this talk of "waah it wasn't fair or sportsmanlike" is just wishy washy crybabyness.
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