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Post by Red Impact on Jan 18, 2015 10:58:16 GMT -5
I went and watched an AAU basketball game with a friend once, the parents there were extremely intense, to the point where they were screaming at opposing team kids and kids were trying to injure opposing players. Keep in mind, these were third graders, 10 years old.
No one is saying it's poor sportsmanship to win, or even win convincingly, you can use that as a teaching moment just fine. But the notion that sportsmanship doesn't matter is a terrible one and makes youth sports worse. All the hypotheticals of "I'd feel more insulted if_____" or "This just tells kids _______" don't really change the negative effects this type of extreme hypercompettiveness has had on sports. Condoning it under the guise of toughening kids up hasn't made things better, it's just made people bigger assholes.
He didn't do that though, so any opportunity to teach that lesson was lost.
There's also something to be said for playing intelligently and not risking freak injury when you really don't need to.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jan 18, 2015 11:05:52 GMT -5
I assume the Bloomington team lacks the talent to compete with this team.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Jan 18, 2015 11:13:08 GMT -5
I went and watched an AAU basketball game with a friend once, the parents there were extremely intense, to the point where they were screaming at opposing team kids and kids were trying to injure opposing players. Keep in mind, these were third graders, 10 years old. No one is saying it's poor sportsmanship to win, or even win convincingly, you can use that as a teaching moment just fine. But the notion that sportsmanship doesn't matter is a terrible one and makes youth sports worse. All the hypotheticals of "I'd feel more insulted if_____" or "This just tells kids _______" don't really change the negative effects this type of extreme hypercompettiveness has had on sports. Condoning it under the guise of toughening kids up hasn't made things better, it's just made people bigger assholes. He didn't do that though, so any opportunity to teach that lesson was lost. There's also something to be said for playing intelligently and not risking freak injury when you really don't need to. Yeah, that situation is pretty messed up. At least in the situation in the article, those are high school girls, who to my knowledge aren't getting abused like that. I dunno, I'm a pretty competitive guy myself, so maybe I'm viewing this whole thing from a skewed perspective.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 18, 2015 14:49:32 GMT -5
I went and watched an AAU basketball game with a friend once, the parents there were extremely intense, to the point where they were screaming at opposing team kids and kids were trying to injure opposing players. Keep in mind, these were third graders, 10 years old. No one is saying it's poor sportsmanship to win, or even win convincingly, you can use that as a teaching moment just fine. But the notion that sportsmanship doesn't matter is a terrible one and makes youth sports worse. All the hypotheticals of "I'd feel more insulted if_____" or "This just tells kids _______" don't really change the negative effects this type of extreme hypercompettiveness has had on sports. Condoning it under the guise of toughening kids up hasn't made things better, it's just made people bigger assholes. Exactly. How many times have you seen generally sociopathic behavior and wondered just where those people learned to be that way and why we as a civilization can't have nice things? It's because of shit like this. Arroyo was clearly superior and deserved to win. There is nothing wrong with that. They were so superior that a blowout was inevitable because of the existence of a shot clock in California's high school system. What happened was far beyond that, however. It was beyond unnecessary. Personally, I don't care about what would be more insulting to the losing team. Either way their feelings are hurt. My issue is not about protecting their delicate feelings. They will have to learn to deal with whatever hurt feelings they have. This is entirely about the winning team. If you have to take on someone you are that superior to, you go all out until you are sure that a comeback is unlikely, then you play conservatively. You don't have to deliberately play badly, but eating the clock to protect a lead is also a viable strategy. Running up the score in a not pro sports league is dishonorable. It is somewhat sociopathic. It is definitely the act of a bully and an all around shitty person. I don't want the kids to learn to be that kind of person. The world has already surpassed its quota for assholes.
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ICBM
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Post by ICBM on Jan 18, 2015 14:55:47 GMT -5
It is not poor sportsmanship to win. Getting beat is as important as practicing. But there is a big difference between getting beaten and a once in a lifetime thrashing that words simply cannot accurately describe. Again 40-17 is a blowout but not a reason to call the game at the half or late in the third. 161-2 is in my opinion. Your opinion can differ and that is fine. Sports teach good lessons, some of them are being a gracious winner or loser, knowing when winning is less as important as teaching (little league games where coach leaves the starters in even though they are up by ten rather than play kids that need to get better).
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Dave the Dave
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 18, 2015 15:32:54 GMT -5
Yeah I'd quit arguing. People hanging their hat on "why should they be in trouble winning" and saying "don't whine if you lose" just are hung up on "kids these days".
It's not that. It's about a coach being a shit head and him getting punished.
Losing isn't the problem. He's running a press up by 60. Neither his team or the other team are learning.
These teams had no business being in the same gym, and coaches need to account for that.
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Post by Unaffiliated on Jan 18, 2015 16:06:06 GMT -5
Yeah I'd quit arguing. People hanging their hat on "why should they be in trouble winning" and saying "don't whine if you lose" just are hung up on "kids these days". It's not that. It's about a coach being a shit head and him getting punished. Losing isn't the problem. He's running a press up by 60. Neither his team or the other team are learning. These teams had no business being in the same gym, and coaches need to account for that. That's not very fair to all those who disagree. Yes, some of them are in the "kids these days" group, but not all. Some simply disagree on what constitutes disrespect or bullying of the opponent, and from there disagree on whether the coach's actions were appropriate or not. I think it's fair to say this disdain for running up the score is a cultural thing. The only times I've ever heard of such a thing is from America. Earlier in this thread, some responses were genuinely curious about why this was even a story.
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Dave the Dave
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 18, 2015 16:09:18 GMT -5
Yeah I'd quit arguing. People hanging their hat on "why should they be in trouble winning" and saying "don't whine if you lose" just are hung up on "kids these days". It's not that. It's about a coach being a shit head and him getting punished. Losing isn't the problem. He's running a press up by 60. Neither his team or the other team are learning. These teams had no business being in the same gym, and coaches need to account for that. That's not very fair to all those who disagree. Yes, some of them are in the "kids these days" group, but not all. Some simply disagree on what constitutes disrespect or bullying of the opponent, and from there disagree on whether the coach's actions were appropriate or not. I think it's fair to say this disdain for running up the score is a cultural thing. The only times I've ever heard of such a thing is from America. Earlier in this thread, some responses were genuinely curious about why this was even a story. Well sure. Not everyone is saying that. My comment was directed at those who were.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 18, 2015 16:10:40 GMT -5
What I don't get is not one of the adults (either coach, refs, etc) before the second half said "Something's wrong, You know what i'm saying? Something's wrong with that", and stopped the game.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jan 18, 2015 16:16:45 GMT -5
I don't know what 'lesson' you are teaching beating a team you are that much better than to that degree.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 18, 2015 16:18:15 GMT -5
The next team who plays the Arroyo Valley High School will be shitting bricks.
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Tony Schiavontay
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Jan 18, 2015 16:31:00 GMT -5
I don't know basketball, but why would he be punished for winning a game? Good sportsmanship. This story comes up every once in a while in the U.S., usually with basketball but sometimes in football too. One high school or middle school team just completely dominates the others and people worry that it starts to become an exercise in cruelty after a while. It's not professional sports, so some argue that the dominating team should take their starters out or play less aggressively, etc while others say that, as long as it is all on the up and up, that it should be fine and the dominating team shouldn't feel bad for winning. The losing team can learn a lesson about losing and being a good sport. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion in the end. When pro teams are dominating in a total blowout they usually do rest their starters and play less aggressively.
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Rican
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Post by Rican on Jan 18, 2015 16:40:02 GMT -5
Could the Arroyo Valley High School girls basketball team beat the New York Knicks?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 16:48:31 GMT -5
Ouch.
Our football team got spanked a few times, but nothing like that. Who are these girls? Do they all have one leg or something? Sheesh. I couldn't even begin to imagine how soulcrushing it would be to be stuck out there.
I think the suspension is dumb, but c'mon dude. Take a look at your bench. Get some of your lesser talented girls some floor time. Drill your various formations and shit.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 18, 2015 17:25:36 GMT -5
The next team who plays the Arroyo Valley High School will be shitting bricks. Apparently the coach's son is the interim coach and used the exact same tactics, outside of the fact that he sat the star player for pretty much 3 quarters because she got into foul trouble.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 18, 2015 17:29:28 GMT -5
Good sportsmanship. This story comes up every once in a while in the U.S., usually with basketball but sometimes in football too. One high school or middle school team just completely dominates the others and people worry that it starts to become an exercise in cruelty after a while. It's not professional sports, so some argue that the dominating team should take their starters out or play less aggressively, etc while others say that, as long as it is all on the up and up, that it should be fine and the dominating team shouldn't feel bad for winning. The losing team can learn a lesson about losing and being a good sport. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion in the end. When pro teams are dominating in a total blowout they usually do rest their starters and play less aggressively. Well, unless you are the Patriots. Then again, I fully believe that is because they played like assholes out of anger of getting caught with Spygate and now have to play that way all of the time to argue that they didn't do it that year to be a group of dicks, but rather because that is how they always play. Considering I don't recall any comments about it before Spygate, I don't buy it.
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