LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Mar 31, 2015 17:09:20 GMT -5
I've also never seen Firefly. :/ lol
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 31, 2015 17:09:47 GMT -5
I agree with said post above. I am a long time wrestling fan, and this is my first post. I have long enjoyed reading the threads and comments here, but this thread is what made me decide to join. I too question sincerity with threads like this, because if you look further down the page, there is a thread dedicated to the divas with the new rules in the first post, and then later see tons of comments objectifying them. If I should recall, on a recent Natalya picture, someone said that their "bunk" was calling them. Ew. Seriously, no one cares if your bunk is calling you, its gross. And the fact that there had to be new rules TELLING people to stop objectifying them and being gross about it is sad. Always calling it "objectifying" is a cute way of putting a negative spin on one of the most healthy and natural parts of existence. How dare people make lighthearted comments about sexuality, your views on it seem a bit judgmental. For the record I've never made a "bunk" comment, but have you even seen FireFly? It's a reference to a funny line said by Adam Baldwin and clearly his charm is lost on you. Your first post is made just to express your displeasure on what other people find fun to talk about, and in particular a topic aimed specifically at pics of divas. Why is it that negativity is generally what gets people to post online? Couple points: 1. The I'll Be In My Bunk thing... there's constant debate in the mod section to write it off as harmless references but then it gets over-used and people just start using for direct code to say "hey I got a boner". I wish the board would just knock it off personally to avoid us even having to HAVE this debate internally. When I agreed to mod here I never thought these are the type of situations that would evolve in a place originally meant to just poke fun at rasslin. Mo members, mo problems. 2. We kinda need the negativity to the point, we're a discussion board and we need things to discuss. We gotta have two sides to nearly everything here in order to even continue existing essentially, otherwise we're just floating in space agreeing with each other.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Mar 31, 2015 17:10:49 GMT -5
Always calling it "objectifying" is a cute way of putting a negative spin on one of the most healthy and natural parts of existence. How dare people make lighthearted comments about sexuality, your views on it seem a bit judgmental. For the record I've never made a "bunk" comment, but have you even seen FireFly? It's a reference to a funny line said by Adam Baldwin and clearly his charm is lost on you. Your first post is made just to express your displeasure on what other people find fun to talk about, and in particular a topic aimed specifically at pics of divas. Why is it that negativity is generally what gets people to post online? Listen, I'm just calling out the hypocrisy with the white nights. I am not trying to sound judgmental, I'm the first to own that I like Nikki Bella's behind, but I'm also not telling people that I'm gonna go masterbate to it, then pretend to be upset that someone made a chant that might be offensive to her. I laugh a lot at the things you guys say, but I also know how to control my behavior online. You know what I mean? If you want to go to your bunk, fine, but we don't need to know it lol. If people are sincere about thier concern of how wrestling fans are perceived, then maybe try to change that s little. Besides, I as a femake was not offended at what was said to them.... If i was any one of the girls I would of responded back to the crowd saying "So what? Don't be jealous!" But that's just me. Lol Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but the people saying "I'll be in my bunk" aren't literally reporting that they'll be masturbating. It's a joke, just a pop culture reference to say "hot" in a funny way. Granted it is in the rules to discourage that sort of thing, I just personally don't think it's as bad as you were making it sound. It also sounded like you're saying any acknowledgment of physical "hotness" is disrespectful and bad. You said it was sad and gross etc. So those posts bother you, but those chants didn't bother you, well, just goes to show everybody has their own lines. Nobody can really come to a consensus on this sort of stuff, but hey, we try.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 31, 2015 17:14:05 GMT -5
I've also never seen Firefly. :/ lol Good show.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Mar 31, 2015 17:21:48 GMT -5
Listen, I'm just calling out the hypocrisy with the white nights. I am not trying to sound judgmental, I'm the first to own that I like Nikki Bella's behind, but I'm also not telling people that I'm gonna go masterbate to it, then pretend to be upset that someone made a chant that might be offensive to her. I laugh a lot at the things you guys say, but I also know how to control my behavior online. You know what I mean? If you want to go to your bunk, fine, but we don't need to know it lol. If people are sincere about thier concern of how wrestling fans are perceived, then maybe try to change that s little. Besides, I as a femake was not offended at what was said to them.... If i was any one of the girls I would of responded back to the crowd saying "So what? Don't be jealous!" But that's just me. Lol Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but the people saying "I'll be in my bunk" aren't literally reporting that they'll be masturbating. It's a joke, just a pop culture reference to say "hot" in a funny way. Granted it is in the rules to discourage that sort of thing, I just personally don't think it's as bad as you were making it sound. It also sounded like you're saying any acknowledgment of physical "hotness" is disrespectful and bad. You said it was sad and gross etc. So those posts bother you, but those chants didn't bother you, well, just goes to show everybody has their own lines. Nobody can really come to a consensus on this sort of stuff, but hey, we try. I have no problem with the hotness at all. I have a folder full of Nikki Bella pics and Brooke Tessmacher pics on my phone, but again, I'm not telling everyone I've got a girl boner and Im going to my bedroom. I keep that stuff to myself. Besides, why would you guys want to know that anyways haha. I'm good with jokes, but I just don't want to see people say that they're gonna peel the bacon to them.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 31, 2015 17:25:51 GMT -5
On the topic of hypocrisy, there's been a lot of words like neckbeard thrown around, and frankly, that's even worse, because now you are talking to people that can't defend themselves like the Bella Twins can.
We all know what the term really means. Insinuating that people have mental illnesses because they did something you don't like, that's something that really makes me embarrassed when I see it.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Mar 31, 2015 17:27:51 GMT -5
it is in the rules to discourage that sort of thing, I just personally don't think it's as bad as you were making it sound. Maybe you can see it from my point of view, that to an "outsider" not in on the joke, that it doesn't come across that way. Since you told me otherwise, I get it, but you had to tell me that for me to get it. Someone coming through the threads for the first time, not knowing you guys or knowing its a joke might see that and be like ew. Its about perception.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Mar 31, 2015 17:30:20 GMT -5
Always calling it "objectifying" is a cute way of putting a negative spin on one of the most healthy and natural parts of existence. How dare people make lighthearted comments about sexuality, your views on it seem a bit judgmental. For the record I've never made a "bunk" comment, but have you even seen FireFly? It's a reference to a funny line said by Adam Baldwin and clearly his charm is lost on you. Your first post is made just to express your displeasure on what other people find fun to talk about, and in particular a topic aimed specifically at pics of divas. Why is it that negativity is generally what gets people to post online? Couple points: 1. The I'll Be In My Bunk thing... there's constant debate in the mod section to write it off as harmless references but then it gets over-used and people just start using for direct code to say "hey I got a boner". I wish the board would just knock it off personally to avoid us even having to HAVE this debate internally. When I agreed to mod here I never thought these are the type of situations that would evolve in a place originally meant to just poke fun at rasslin. Mo members, mo problems. I thought a few months ago the mods made a rule about it somehow; was it changed around or not?
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 31, 2015 17:34:26 GMT -5
I kinda think the "in my bunk" thing is pretty gross, tbh. To be fair I would say things are way better than when I first joined in 2009, and every sig was some kind of jiggling hawt chick (was happy to find a way to hide sigs, it was just uncomfortable).
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Post by g1megatronfan on Mar 31, 2015 17:35:47 GMT -5
A little low, but I get why they chant such things at the Bellas. A lot of people genuienly don't want to see them...ever.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 31, 2015 17:36:44 GMT -5
Couple points: 1. The I'll Be In My Bunk thing... there's constant debate in the mod section to write it off as harmless references but then it gets over-used and people just start using for direct code to say "hey I got a boner". I wish the board would just knock it off personally to avoid us even having to HAVE this debate internally. When I agreed to mod here I never thought these are the type of situations that would evolve in a place originally meant to just poke fun at rasslin. Mo members, mo problems. I thought a few months ago the mods made a rule about it somehow; was it changed around or not? It was a hard rule at first in attempts to clean up those threads which evolved into just wank material discussion for a while. Since then though, it's gotten a LOT better, there's only so much we can do to appease those who are offended by something without chopping everyone's hands off about saying they're attracted to someone. So we've attempted to lighten things gradually with our enforcement to a happy medium and concentrate on the big issues involved in it, and part of it is letting some of the "bunk" stuff slip through, but it still gets overly crass at times and we have to reevaluate what we allow here.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 31, 2015 17:39:18 GMT -5
I kinda think the "in my bunk" thing is pretty gross, tbh. To be fair I would say things are way better when I first joined in 2009, and every sig was some kind of jiggling hawt chick (was happy to find a way to hide sigs, it was just uncomfortable). And this is why we attempt to clean these things up, all these opinions are valid but it's VERY hard, near impossible, to even come close to pleasing everyone. FAN takes every attempt to keep ourselves level and comfortable to as many as possible, and we like to think this is the *posters* board. It's all about mediums for us. Sometimes we just suck at it. But we try.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Mar 31, 2015 17:40:20 GMT -5
A little low, but I get why they chant such things at the Bellas. A lot of people genuienly don't want to see them...ever. Not liking them is no excuse
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,852
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Post by Dub H on Mar 31, 2015 17:42:20 GMT -5
Always calling it "objectifying" is a cute way of putting a negative spin on one of the most healthy and natural parts of existence. How dare people make lighthearted comments about sexuality, your views on it seem a bit judgmental. For the record I've never made a "bunk" comment, but have you even seen FireFly? It's a reference to a funny line said by Adam Baldwin and clearly his charm is lost on you. Your first post is made just to express your displeasure on what other people find fun to talk about, and in particular a topic aimed specifically at pics of divas. Why is it that negativity is generally what gets people to post online? Listen, I'm just calling out the hypocrisy with the white nights. I am not trying to sound judgmental, I'm the first to own that I like Nikki Bella's behind, but I'm also not telling people that I'm gonna go masterbate to it, then pretend to be upset that someone made a chant that might be offensive to her. I laugh a lot at the things you guys say, but I also know how to control my behavior online. You know what I mean? If you want to go to your bunk, fine, but we don't need to know it lol. If people are sincere about thier concern of how wrestling fans are perceived, then maybe try to change that a little. Besides, I as a female was not offended at what was said to them.... If i was any one of the girls I would of responded back to the crowd saying "So what? Don't be jealous!" But that's just me. Lol We,finding someone attractive is natural,but we don't need to know about details . And that would have been the best comeback,now i'm sad none of then said it.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Mar 31, 2015 17:47:31 GMT -5
I kinda think the "in my bunk" thing is pretty gross, tbh. To be fair I would say things are way better when I first joined in 2009, and every sig was some kind of jiggling hawt chick (was happy to find a way to hide sigs, it was just uncomfortable). And this is why we attempt to clean these things up, all these opinions are valid but it's VERY hard, near impossible, to even come close to pleasing everyone. FAN takes every attempt to keep ourselves level and comfortable to as many as possible, and we like to think this is the *posters* board. It's all about mediums for us. Sometimes we just suck at it. But we try. I appreciate the hard work you guys do. I'm an administrator for a neighborhood crimewatch group for my city, and we have almost 5,000 people in the group, its hard to make everyone happy. You should see the private messages I get sometimes. Some people aren't even happy with a happy medium.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Mar 31, 2015 17:52:54 GMT -5
TIL misogynistic chants that reduce women into sexual objects are completely fine if the women in question have healthy sexual relationships outside of marriage and/or are featured on a reality show.
WWE is really missing out by not tapping into the Puritan market...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 19:10:37 GMT -5
There's no defending those chants.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
Member is Online
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Post by the2ndevil on Mar 31, 2015 19:17:05 GMT -5
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 31, 2015 21:03:04 GMT -5
Good call by a few people here: even if the guys chanting it didn't realize it, using "you suck Cena!" as an insult is a way to shame female sexuality. Nobody would chant "you eat Nikki!" at Cena, because having sex with Nikki Bella is seen as an accomplishment, and male "conquering" of an attractive woman is something to be lauded, not used as an insult. Meanwhile, the women get that treatment because female sexuality must be shameful, secretive, and only used to make men happy. It's a huge reason why this sucks.
But there's a point that I feel is just as key, especially for pro wrestling. I see people saying "Hey, doesn't look like the women involved cared that much"...believe it or not, it really isn't about them.
Go to any pro wrestling show these days, from WWE to your most local of local indy groups. Look around: what is the proportion of male fans to female fans present?
Back in the old days of pro wrestling, just about into the 1980s or so, there was a significantly higher number of female fans out there. As time has gone on, wrestling has spent more and more time trying to appeal almost solely to a male demographic, and not surprisingly, this has led to a huge drop in the number of women who watch, buy tickets, or attend events.
Now, if you do see a woman in the crowd at the show, and you happen to know her enough to have a conversation, ask her about her experiences going to a wrestling show by herself or with her friends (not with her boyfriend). Ask her what comments she's had to deal with, what chants she can't stand hearing, etc. Danielle Matheson over at Uproxx With Spandex did a great write-up about this, talking about being a passionate female wrestling fan, but often being subjective to awful experiences by predominantly male crowds.
This isn't about insulting Nikki, Brie, Natty, or any other female wrestling personally, although that in and of itself is wrong, as well, and deserves to be called out; it's much more about whether or not wrestling fans are willing to create a welcoming environment for fans who aren't male, or straight male, for that matter (thankfully, anti-gay chants are nowhere near as prevalent anymore, it seems).
I've said this in other threads, but pro wrestling in the United States is currently dying. This is not an exaggeration: while WWE can still occasionally draw 5 million viewers to Raw, its demographics remain very old (average viewer is 41 years old), it isn't drawing new, young fans, and it also isn't drawing fans who aren't typical guys you'd speak with on the Internet. Obviously female fans exist, but the environment they have to wade into now is not a pleasant one much of the time. And while WWE continues to sit around 4 million viewers, very, very few of those viewers are also watching other shows like TNA, Lucha Underground, ROH, etc., and their crowds are largely experiencing the same demographics issues.
If pro wrestling is to survive in the US going forward, the tent needs to grow; the fan environment needs to open up to people who aren't just guys and Internet fans. If things stay the way they are, the average fan is going to be 45 years old...then 50...and there won't be a new crop of fans anywhere near large enough to replace them.
So yeah, it's wrong to attempt to personally insult the women over having sex with their significant others, but even beyond that, it's both wrong and downright dangerous for the future of the industry to chant stuff and create a crowd environment that basically says "Female fans need not apply."
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 31, 2015 21:25:51 GMT -5
Now, if you do see a woman in the crowd at the show, and you happen to know her enough to have a conversation, ask her about her experiences going to a wrestling show by herself or with her friends (not with her boyfriend). Ask her what comments she's had to deal with, what chants she can't stand hearing, etc. Danielle Matheson over at Uproxx With Spandex did a great write-up about this, talking about being a passionate female wrestling fan, but often being subjective to awful experiences by predominantly male crowds. It's actually funny you mention this, because I was seated next to a female fan for Raw, in a Macho Man costume no less. It actually might have been Tyler Breeze, as she had the leg tassles. She HATED the Bellas with an absolute passion. I'm not going to speak for her in any fashion, so I don't know her exact feelings about that. However, when Paige did the spear through the ropes to Brie, she was really concerned about Paige, but almost relished the idea of Brie possibly hurt, at least in jest. Make no mistake, she may have hated the Bella Twins more than anyone else in that arena. What I can tell you is that I saw nothing of the sort when it came to harassing female fans, and I can say that I saw no abuse like that towards any female fans. I absolutely know it happens, but I was actually honest to go shocked with how many women were there for some of the events considering the very factual things you've said. I don't know if it means that there is a growing female fanbase, or what exactly it means. It may just mean that there are a lot of tolerating significant others, but they are there, and some even have the same feeling about the Bella Twins that the men do.
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