Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,551
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 16, 2015 11:15:49 GMT -5
When you think about it, Melisandre really was an inefficient advisor. The only useful thing she ever did for Stannis was take care of Renly. And doing that only resulted in The Lannisters' army being tripled. The night is dark and full or errors
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jun 16, 2015 12:18:03 GMT -5
I don't see how his motivations for being an asshole were ever understandable. To be fair...he killed the Mad King. He saved the people of King's Landing and everyone ever since has been like "Sup Kingslayer...betrayed anyone today?" That's gonna make a bad egg rotten. And who was his bodyguards for years, protecting him so he could keep massacring his people, and who presumably stopped many people from killing the Mad King earlier, again? JAIME F***ING LANNISTER, who by the way, only had a change of heart conveniently when the king's enemies were about to storm in, so he didn't have to protect anyone from people he knew he had no chance of surviving against. How was the show rape debatable? When a woman goes "no! Stop!" as you put your dick in her, there's no ambiguity as to whether she's consenting or not. And the book canon is irrelevant to the show, as should be plainly obvious by now. I don't see how his motivations for being an asshole were ever understandable. All of them were motivated by personal gain. And don't give me the excuse that trying to kill Bran was justified because his whole family would have been killed had Robert found out about him and Cersei, because whose fault would it have been for not being able to keep it in his pants even as the king is just a few rooms away?! If anything, it makes it worse because it shows that he has no problem risking the lives of his entire family for a quick f*** with his sister. Losing his hand may have humbled him but that doesn't make him a good person, just a humble asshole. I'm writing off the rape as something just badly done seeing as not even the writers or director can keep it straight what they were trying for. Other than that, he has become more noble. Hell, even before the hand coming off, he stopped Brienne being raped, then afterwards when he realised he made things worse, he turned around and put his life on the line to save her and get her released. Then this season, he wants to face up to his responsibilities and go rescue his daughter from danger. He is mostly a changed man. I don't see how any of this absolves him of anything. So he's helped two people (one of whom was his own daughter so even for him it would have been a special kind of rotten if he didn't go, and even then he didn't have much of a choice if he didn't want to further piss off his f***-buddy/sister), that doesn't make him a good person. Fat load of good that does to the many people who's death he facilitated or directly caused, not to mention those who lived but had their lives ruined by him. And speaking of his children and mad kings, let us not forget that his inability to keep it in his pants is what lead to the birth of Jeoffrey, who immediately used his power as king to commit atrocities; he started his reign by killing children and newborns, for crying out loud! So that's two kings he helped torment their people. What a f***ing hero. And of course, Jeoffrey's lack of legitimacy due to this whole "incestuous bastard" thing is what kicked off the War of the Five Kingdoms. Jesus Christ, is there ANY tragedy in Westeros that Jaime Lannister isn't in some way responsible for?! The only way he could be even more of a nuisance to that continent would be if he somehow also brought the White Walker to life.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,070
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 16, 2015 12:56:16 GMT -5
To be fair...he killed the Mad King. He saved the people of King's Landing and everyone ever since has been like "Sup Kingslayer...betrayed anyone today?" That's gonna make a bad egg rotten. And who was his bodyguards for years, protecting him so he could keep massacring his people, and who presumably stopped many people from killing the Mad King earlier, again? JAIME F***ING LANNISTER, who by the way, only had a change of heart conveniently when the king's enemies were about to storm in, so he didn't have to protect anyone from people he knew he had no chance of surviving against. I'm writing off the rape as something just badly done seeing as not even the writers or director can keep it straight what they were trying for. Other than that, he has become more noble. Hell, even before the hand coming off, he stopped Brienne being raped, then afterwards when he realised he made things worse, he turned around and put his life on the line to save her and get her released. Then this season, he wants to face up to his responsibilities and go rescue his daughter from danger. He is mostly a changed man. I don't see how any of this absolves him of anything. So he's helped two people (one of whom was his own daughter so even for him it would have been a special kind of rotten if he didn't go, and even then he didn't have much of a choice if he didn't want to further piss off his f***-buddy/sister), that doesn't make him a good person. Fat load of good that does to the many people who's death he facilitated or directly caused, not to mention those who lived but had their lives ruined by him. And speaking of his children and mad kings, let us not forget that his inability to keep it in his pants is what lead to the birth of Jeoffrey, who immediately used his power as king to commit atrocities; he started his reign by killing children and newborns, for crying out loud! So that's two kings he helped torment their people. What a f***ing hero. And of course, Jeoffrey's lack of legitimacy due to this whole "incestuous bastard" thing is what kicked off the War of the Five Kingdoms. Jesus Christ, is there ANY tragedy in Westeros that Jaime Lannister isn't in some way responsible for?! The only way he could be even more of a nuisance to that continent would be if he somehow also brought the White Walker to life. Who said anything about absolving him? He was a bad, selfish person, and still has that inside him, I'm saying he's changed and is working to make things better. Hell, do we really have any stories of him being THAT evil outside of pushing Bran out the window, as terrible as that was? He has no deeds in the Kingsguard book, and fought in tournaments a lot, doesn't sound like he went out a lot or did anything of note, he just hung out in the capital banging his sister and guarding Roberts doors when he was cheating on her, it was all messed up but there's not that much evidence of him actually DOING things rather than having a crappy reputation, which he got by killing the king to stop him blowing up the city. As for him being a bodyguard to the mad king and letting him get away with things. That was the job, the Kingsguard protect the king, they don't question him. All the other honourable knights there with him did the same, to single him out in unfair. Especially as he was the one who reached the point where enough was enough and turned on him. As for Joffery, Jamie, at the request of Cersei, had no part whatsoever in his upbringing, so you can't blame him for the kid being a little shit.
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Post by CuJ0 Will Keep Dancing on Jun 16, 2015 13:41:16 GMT -5
Oof, this sounds scarily accurate. So who will be Billith in Season 6 of GoT? Jon Snow and Melisandre will fuse together creating Jonisandre! Too many people getting killed off is doing this to me. It's the same reason why I have no ability to get invested in The Walking Dead and why I gave up on The Shield--the show makes it so glaringly obvious that the worst will happen sooner or later, and I sort of just tune out and stop caring. I can see that, personally I don't mind having many characters killed off but at the same time either cycle new interesting characters into the fold or if you want to start purging some plots, at least make what you have left interesting. The issue I see starting to happen is that any new characters that seem to be worth investing in, die relatively quickly (Oberyn/Wildling Commander) or characters that you've been invested in just seem to spin their wheels for several episodes until your will to care has been sapped (Dany/Arya). I don't know maybe next season will be better, but typically it seems like TV shows diminish in quality as they progress, so we'll see.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 16, 2015 19:25:43 GMT -5
And who was his bodyguards for years, protecting him so he could keep massacring his people, and who presumably stopped many people from killing the Mad King earlier, again? JAIME F***ING LANNISTER, who by the way, only had a change of heart conveniently when the king's enemies were about to storm in, so he didn't have to protect anyone from people he knew he had no chance of surviving against. I don't see how any of this absolves him of anything. So he's helped two people (one of whom was his own daughter so even for him it would have been a special kind of rotten if he didn't go, and even then he didn't have much of a choice if he didn't want to further piss off his f***-buddy/sister), that doesn't make him a good person. Fat load of good that does to the many people who's death he facilitated or directly caused, not to mention those who lived but had their lives ruined by him. And speaking of his children and mad kings, let us not forget that his inability to keep it in his pants is what lead to the birth of Jeoffrey, who immediately used his power as king to commit atrocities; he started his reign by killing children and newborns, for crying out loud! So that's two kings he helped torment their people. What a f***ing hero. And of course, Jeoffrey's lack of legitimacy due to this whole "incestuous bastard" thing is what kicked off the War of the Five Kingdoms. Jesus Christ, is there ANY tragedy in Westeros that Jaime Lannister isn't in some way responsible for?! The only way he could be even more of a nuisance to that continent would be if he somehow also brought the White Walker to life. Who said anything about absolving him? He was a bad, selfish person, and still has that inside him, I'm saying he's changed and is working to make things better. Hell, do we really have any stories of him being THAT evil outside of pushing Bran out the window, as terrible as that was? He has no deeds in the Kingsguard book, and fought in tournaments a lot, doesn't sound like he went out a lot or did anything of note, he just hung out in the capital banging his sister and guarding Roberts doors when he was cheating on her, it was all messed up but there's not that much evidence of him actually DOING things rather than having a crappy reputation, which he got by killing the king to stop him blowing up the city. As for him being a bodyguard to the mad king and letting him get away with things. That was the job, the Kingsguard protect the king, they don't question him. All the other honourable knights there with him did the same, to single him out in unfair. Especially as he was the one who reached the point where enough was enough and turned on him. As for Joffery, Jamie, at the request of Cersei, had no part whatsoever in his upbringing, so you can't blame him for the kid being a little shit. One of the major themes of Barristan Selmy's chapters is his guilt over saving Aerys after the Defiance of Duskendale instead of letting him rot and allowing Rhaegar to take the throne. It seems that everyone in that kingsguard questioned their oaths to him. That's also why Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower and....Whent I want to say? Went with Rhaegar after he "kidnapped" Lyanna Stark, he planned to overthrow Aerys and put his dynasty on the throne after he came back from the Trident(Which he never did of course. Robert's warhammer saw to that) Jaime wasn't the only one who wanted Aerys gone, he's just the one we know about. I believe they all wanted him gone, they just wanted to do it more subtly than Jaime did it due to their vows as the king's bodyguards. You can only stand by so long and watch Aerys do what he did and hide behind your so-called "vows" and do f*** all. Martin says he doesn't want to write a prequel about Aerys and Robert's Rebellion and yet, it's filled with just as much intrigue and violence as the main series. I hope he changes his mind on that. As far as Joffrey goes, Robert is just a much to blame for Joffrey being the way he was as Cersei. Cersei let him run amock and do whatever while Robert sat on his fat ass and did nothing. And even when he did, he was too damn drunk to remember it.
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Post by Sparvid on Jun 17, 2015 0:32:59 GMT -5
Also why have the Freys seem to have gotten away scot free with the Red Wedding? One of the best background stories in Books 4 and 5 is the karma balancing systematic killing of members of House Frey. I hope they haven't just moved on from the Freys and their stupid caps in the show. I was just clicking around the GoT wikia and noticed that other then Walder's wife who Catelyn got her hands on, every single named/introduced Frey is apparently still alive in TV continuity.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jun 17, 2015 3:48:54 GMT -5
And who was his bodyguards for years, protecting him so he could keep massacring his people, and who presumably stopped many people from killing the Mad King earlier, again? JAIME F***ING LANNISTER, who by the way, only had a change of heart conveniently when the king's enemies were about to storm in, so he didn't have to protect anyone from people he knew he had no chance of surviving against. I don't see how any of this absolves him of anything. So he's helped two people (one of whom was his own daughter so even for him it would have been a special kind of rotten if he didn't go, and even then he didn't have much of a choice if he didn't want to further piss off his f***-buddy/sister), that doesn't make him a good person. Fat load of good that does to the many people who's death he facilitated or directly caused, not to mention those who lived but had their lives ruined by him. And speaking of his children and mad kings, let us not forget that his inability to keep it in his pants is what lead to the birth of Jeoffrey, who immediately used his power as king to commit atrocities; he started his reign by killing children and newborns, for crying out loud! So that's two kings he helped torment their people. What a f***ing hero. And of course, Jeoffrey's lack of legitimacy due to this whole "incestuous bastard" thing is what kicked off the War of the Five Kingdoms. Jesus Christ, is there ANY tragedy in Westeros that Jaime Lannister isn't in some way responsible for?! The only way he could be even more of a nuisance to that continent would be if he somehow also brought the White Walker to life. Who said anything about absolving him? He was a bad, selfish person, and still has that inside him, I'm saying he's changed and is working to make things better. Hell, do we really have any stories of him being THAT evil outside of pushing Bran out the window, as terrible as that was? He has no deeds in the Kingsguard book, and fought in tournaments a lot, doesn't sound like he went out a lot or did anything of note, he just hung out in the capital banging his sister and guarding Roberts doors when he was cheating on her, it was all messed up but there's not that much evidence of him actually DOING things rather than having a crappy reputation, which he got by killing the king to stop him blowing up the city. As for him being a bodyguard to the mad king and letting him get away with things. That was the job, the Kingsguard protect the king, they don't question him. All the other honourable knights there with him did the same, to single him out in unfair. Especially as he was the one who reached the point where enough was enough and turned on him. As for Joffery, Jamie, at the request of Cersei, had no part whatsoever in his upbringing, so you can't blame him for the kid being a little shit. I hate to bring him up because I freaking hate Gary Stu/Tyrion, but Jamie (with ol pop of the year Tywin) totally skull f***ed the dwarf about his first wife. I admit he is changing but I don't care. I too hate the bad guys become good and the good guys become bad parts of GoT. I am just glad we haven't had Lady Dustin on the show to try to make us hate Ned. At least let us respect one single character in the history of the show.
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,548
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Jun 17, 2015 4:59:01 GMT -5
Thing with Cersei is, the world is still pretty much carrying on the same for her. They have to live with that forever. Cersei is a selfish character, she cares about her children, so their deaths hurt her, but cares about herself more, so they don't affect her that much, hell she's been undermining her own son all year. As horrible as her imprisonment and the walk were, as soon as she gets back to the Red Keep, she has a minion bring her a super strong zombie slave, so life is almost back to normal and she can go straight into plotting revenge mode and ignore what's happened. Cersei has possibly one of the easiest lives in the show(not that that's saying a lot) so she doesn't ever face a situation where she needs to change and think about things. wait, are we talking about Cersei or stephanie mcmahon?
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,070
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jun 17, 2015 5:54:52 GMT -5
Who said anything about absolving him? He was a bad, selfish person, and still has that inside him, I'm saying he's changed and is working to make things better. Hell, do we really have any stories of him being THAT evil outside of pushing Bran out the window, as terrible as that was? He has no deeds in the Kingsguard book, and fought in tournaments a lot, doesn't sound like he went out a lot or did anything of note, he just hung out in the capital banging his sister and guarding Roberts doors when he was cheating on her, it was all messed up but there's not that much evidence of him actually DOING things rather than having a crappy reputation, which he got by killing the king to stop him blowing up the city. As for him being a bodyguard to the mad king and letting him get away with things. That was the job, the Kingsguard protect the king, they don't question him. All the other honourable knights there with him did the same, to single him out in unfair. Especially as he was the one who reached the point where enough was enough and turned on him. As for Joffery, Jamie, at the request of Cersei, had no part whatsoever in his upbringing, so you can't blame him for the kid being a little shit. I hate to bring him up because I freaking hate Gary Stu/Tyrion, but Jamie (with ol pop of the year Tywin) totally skull f***ed the dwarf about his first wife. I admit he is changing but I don't care. I too hate the bad guys become good and the good guys become bad parts of GoT. I am just glad we haven't had Lady Dustin on the show to try to make us hate Ned. At least let us respect one single character in the history of the show. Ok cool, another actual example, I'm going with the show where nothing's been said since season 1's story btw Personally, I'd put that with his watching Aerys stuff, because although it was Tywin's idea, he should have gone against him.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jun 17, 2015 6:34:34 GMT -5
Also why have the Freys seem to have gotten away scot free with the Red Wedding? One of the best background stories in Books 4 and 5 is the karma balancing systematic killing of members of House Frey. I hope they haven't just moved on from the Freys and their stupid caps in the show. Yeah, every once in a while, I like to think of Walder Frey sitting in his castle and thinking to himself he can't believe he actually got away with this and no-one seems to be trying to get revenge on him.
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Post by walterharrow on Jun 17, 2015 14:51:30 GMT -5
I loved Arya's scenes in the finale. Maisie Williams has been great since the beginning and her performance in the scene where she kills Meryn was one of the best of the season in my opinion {Spoiler}{Spoiler}
I hope they actually feature her warging abilities in season 6, which would make sense and be the natural next step for them to take after her going blind (connecting to Nymeria and warging cats to use their eyes to see etc)
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jun 17, 2015 15:31:01 GMT -5
EDITED to avoid any and all potential spoilers. Carry on! -HMark
Well. Thanks for the spoilers, mate.
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Post by walterharrow on Jun 17, 2015 15:47:11 GMT -5
EDITED for the same reason! Tally-ho! -HMarkSorry about that. Im posting on asoiaf.org at the same time so I'm used to not covering my spoilers (ive edited my original post now though)[/p]
Also, it might not really be a spoiler since they should have included it in the show by now
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 17, 2015 17:25:07 GMT -5
Who said anything about absolving him? He was a bad, selfish person, and still has that inside him, I'm saying he's changed and is working to make things better. Hell, do we really have any stories of him being THAT evil outside of pushing Bran out the window, as terrible as that was? He has no deeds in the Kingsguard book, and fought in tournaments a lot, doesn't sound like he went out a lot or did anything of note, he just hung out in the capital banging his sister and guarding Roberts doors when he was cheating on her, it was all messed up but there's not that much evidence of him actually DOING things rather than having a crappy reputation, which he got by killing the king to stop him blowing up the city. As for him being a bodyguard to the mad king and letting him get away with things. That was the job, the Kingsguard protect the king, they don't question him. All the other honourable knights there with him did the same, to single him out in unfair. Especially as he was the one who reached the point where enough was enough and turned on him. As for Joffery, Jamie, at the request of Cersei, had no part whatsoever in his upbringing, so you can't blame him for the kid being a little shit. I hate to bring him up because I freaking hate Gary Stu/Tyrion, but Jamie (with ol pop of the year Tywin) totally skull f***ed the dwarf about his first wife. I admit he is changing but I don't care. I too hate the bad guys become good and the good guys become bad parts of GoT. I am just glad we haven't had Lady Dustin on the show to try to make us hate Ned. At least let us respect one single character in the history of the show. Is that what you got out of Lady Dustin's rantings? I took as someone who was mad that she couldn't get to marry Brandon Stark(Ned's Brother) because the Stark maester told Lord Rickon that it would be better for his house if he married his son to Catelyn Tully. She mentions to Theon that they are both similar in that they both wanted to be Starks, yet never could, and that's why they ended up resentful of them. And about her rantings against Ned, those never made much sense either. So, what exactly was he supposed to do? Yes, he brought Lyanna's bones back to Winterfell and not the others because she wanted to be buried there. Ned had no clue how Lord Dustin or anyone else who died in the Tower of Joy wanted to be buried and bringing 8 other sets of bones back is a bigger pain than you would think. He gave them a good burial place under the Tower of Joy and that's all that could be done. If she's that upset that her husband's bones were brought back, why not just send someone to get them back herself? Yes, I'm supposed to feel bad for her and I do but, she takes her bitterness way too far. None of what happened to her and her husband are worth threatening to feed Ned's bones to her dogs over.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jun 17, 2015 20:22:23 GMT -5
Also why have the Freys seem to have gotten away scot free with the Red Wedding? One of the best background stories in Books 4 and 5 is the karma balancing systematic killing of members of House Frey. I hope they haven't just moved on from the Freys and their stupid caps in the show. Yeah, every once in a while, I like to think of Walder Frey sitting in his castle and thinking to himself he can't believe he actually got away with this and no-one seems to be trying to get revenge on him. How about Balon Greyjoy? Doing pretty well in that War of the Five Kings {Spoiler}Winning by default, assuming Stannis actually is dead
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Post by 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer on Jun 18, 2015 12:59:55 GMT -5
Yeah, every once in a while, I like to think of Walder Frey sitting in his castle and thinking to himself he can't believe he actually got away with this and no-one seems to be trying to get revenge on him. How about Balon Greyjoy? Doing pretty well in that War of the Five Kings Winning by default, assuming Stannis actually is dead yeah, I hope you didn't throw away your "win" ticket on Balon. He had to be a massive underdog.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jun 18, 2015 15:45:36 GMT -5
I'm guessing the Ironborn still hold Deepwood Motte in the show.
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Post by Beets by Schrute on Jun 18, 2015 19:28:06 GMT -5
After nearly a week of avoiding the internet due to being on a trip, I have finally watched the finale, and oh my God do I need a day or two to recover emotionally. First, Stannis apparently bites the dust and the Boltons live to fight another day. That's strike 1. Then Myrcella does end up getting saved by her father/uncle only to get poisoned as she leaves Dorne. That's strike 2. And I will summarize the third strike with these three words: f*** the Watch! If they are too petty to know what is coming, then let the Night King do his business. In fact, abandon all band wagons and get on the White Walker train. I'm all for immortality and raising people from the dead. May they dominate from the Wall to Winterfell.
With all of these deaths, the only main characters left are: Jaime Lannister, Cersei, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, and Danerys. Since House Baratheon is pretty much done for, I guess that means Littlefinger sends in the armies of the Vale to probably destroy the Boltons as requested. Hopefully that will give more of an opening for Sansa and Theon/Reek to escape. Tyrion will rule as he always wanted to. Arya will be a blind assassin. How will the storyline of the Wall continue without Jon Snow?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jun 18, 2015 20:48:32 GMT -5
Brienne hit the tree, Bronn/Trystane has the antidote, and a witch whose religion involves resurrection powers just arrived at the wall.
I'll eat my hat if at least two of those aren't true.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 22:30:37 GMT -5
Well I think back to Daenerys visions in the house of the undying and she sees a destroyed Kings Landing. So I think the White Walkers are going to win and Danny is going to drive them off with her Dragons. Also Tyrion inherits Castlerock as no other Lannister is alive to claim it.
Thus Jaime kills Cersei as he is undead at the time.
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