metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Jun 26, 2015 17:20:20 GMT -5
Same five moves every match... What year is it? Someone who can make 5 moves work into the context of a great match will always be better than someone who can duct tape 53 moves into a incoherent, poorly booked match. |
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rippo
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 600 
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Post by rippo on Jun 26, 2015 17:25:15 GMT -5
Opinions are like assholes and everything but I feel most people who call Cena a good ring worker are just trying too hard to be hipster.
He's decent with the right opponent but the guy literally has the same match every week and the only thing that sets the matches apart are what moves his OPPONENT does.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,659
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jun 26, 2015 17:34:44 GMT -5
A while ago I would've maybe said yes, but I think much less of him these days now that he's devolved into TNA Kurt Angle by only having no logic matches filled with gratuitous moves and finisher kickouts.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 37,305
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Post by The Ichi on Jun 26, 2015 17:59:07 GMT -5
Has been for some time now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 18:03:30 GMT -5
If you're talking about the amount of moves he does, the answer is no.
If you're talking about keeping the crowd into his matches no matter what, the answer's yes; few guys get dueling chants, so hate him or love him, at least people care.
But I can think of guys from this era alone who have him beat in both ways, like Bryan, Undertaker, and Lesnar.
All-time great? Depends on how long your list is. He definitely isn't Top 5 in my eyes, but he'd make a Top 15-20 list.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 18:10:27 GMT -5
It's a difficult question to answer. From a technical standpoint Cena is really pretty awful. His punches are crap, his power moves are sloppy and weak-looking, his high-flying attempts are cringe-worthy and his submissions are legendarily bad. And yet he's had a ton of good matches to his name in spite of all that and he always has the crowd invested in what he's doing.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,490
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jun 26, 2015 18:19:30 GMT -5
Same five moves every match... That's...pretty much every wrestler ever. |
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SUPES
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,373
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Post by SUPES on Jun 26, 2015 18:31:05 GMT -5
His body of work speaks for itself. Before Lashley's TNA push of the past year, NOBODY else came close to giving him a great match, not even the almighty Samoa Joe.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 26, 2015 18:39:03 GMT -5
I dunno, how long of a list does it count for the label greatest?
He's not ahead of Flair, Savage, Steamboat, Shawn or Bret. If you want to talk about overall, he's probably dogging it neck and neck with Austin under the top five, probably under Austin because Austin could get the entire crowd behind him.
So, I guess top ten of all time, yeah. Top five? Nah.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jun 26, 2015 19:05:34 GMT -5
Hes been having consistently great matches for at least five years and seems to be getting better and better. So, yes.
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Post by abjordans on Jun 26, 2015 19:07:52 GMT -5
Yes he is. John Cena is a top 10 all time main event worker. I have seen him have wars on house shows, plus his televised classics.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 26, 2015 19:53:05 GMT -5
Depends on how long a list you'd make for all time. I doubt he'd crack my top twenty if I was making a list. But he's good.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,506
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jun 26, 2015 20:02:21 GMT -5
Yes, in my opinion he is easily one of the all-time greats and I have no problem putting him in the top 5. He can have solid matches with anyone and consistently has solid performances and can adapt to any type of crowd and knows how to have any style of crowd in the palm of his hand.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 20:29:57 GMT -5
It's complicated.
There's something to be said for him always being put in position to have great matches. Like there's some guys that can maximize 4 minutes and blow people away. Cena isn't going to do that, and he's also not going to veer off of the tried and true formula. It's either Cena-match Cena, or gimmick match Cena.
All of his matches have big-time emotional investment, which brings them up huge. If he has that same match with Kevin Owens in front of a dead WCW crowd like the ones Benoit and Guerrero wrestled in front of sometimes, it wouldn't seem half as good.
The thing is, the emotional aspect of his matches is cultivated more by the weird, unprecedented booking/nature of his character than what he's actually doing in the ring. He does a lot of things in the ring that actively kill the drama of the match, but in a twisted way it makes people who notice that stuff dislike him more, and adds to his overall heat. It's like he's rewarded for his flaws, because WWE has decided to break every bit of logic with this guy.
That sounds more negative than I mean it to, but like I said, it's complicated. I think he gets great results overall, his matches are usually really fun to watch, in the end that's what matters. But we're talking "worker" here and to me that's just different and calls for more analysis, and getting into the philosophy of what it means to be a great in-ring worker.
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The Gallus Mark
Unicron
Watching Icelandic Women’s Soccer Highlights
Posts: 2,553
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Post by The Gallus Mark on Jun 26, 2015 22:06:12 GMT -5
Top 10? Yes
Top 5? Probably not, but he's getting closer and closer.
Dude has great matches consistently, even if you don't like the finish, you're likely pulled into the match in some way. His stunner thing is dumb, but outside of that, I'm usually big on his matches.
Maybe I'm not a big enough nerd, but how in the world do people hear him call spots? Maybe next time I'll have to super concentrate on that to possibly hear something.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 26, 2015 22:22:12 GMT -5
Cena can have a good match with anyone, as long as the other person isn't Randy Orton, so yes. That's not even a knock on Orton, they just don't click at all. Anytime they've been "forced to tag", they have weirdly great tag chemistry, and always bust out great tag team versions of the RKO, but as opponents, they are mediocre at best, and I have no earthly idea why. Kind of like how Batista and Booker T are good, but had shitty matches together. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 22:25:57 GMT -5
Top 10? Yes Top 5? Probably not, but he's getting closer and closer. Dude has great matches consistently, even if you don't like the finish, you're likely pulled into the match in some way. His stunner thing is dumb, but outside of that, I'm usually big on his matches. Maybe I'm not a big enough nerd, but how in the world do people hear him call spots? Maybe next time I'll have to super concentrate on that to possibly hear something. Are you watching on a laptop with bad speakers or something? I watch it on a 15 year old TV and have to try to ignore the spot calling. I'm not listening as hard as I can so I can bitch about Cena, it just jumps right out of the speakers. He's not the only one. But, he may be the worst about it. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 22:45:53 GMT -5
I realized that almost all of my favorite WWE matches from the last decade are Cena matches.
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Post by Main Eventer on Jun 26, 2015 22:50:51 GMT -5
Nope, I can think of at least 10 Superstars who are better in ring workers than Cena who are currently on the roster.
However out of the top guys of all time (Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.) I would say he is number one (number two if I decide to count Bret Hart as a top guy.)
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Post by Gremlin on Jun 26, 2015 22:56:28 GMT -5
Yes but only because of the hurricenarana.
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