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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 0:27:52 GMT -5
There's absolutely no psychology in his matches and he's a poor seller.
No.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 1:09:42 GMT -5
Best worker they have for stamina. He's not a young man anymore, has had injuries, works their most insane schedule and has a pacey ring style yet he's never looked out of shape or tired in the ring. He might be in trouble once he enters his 40s as loss of stamina hits one suddenly but for now he's an absolute machine.
Would struggle to make the top ten for psychology though.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Jun 27, 2015 2:06:19 GMT -5
Cena can have a good match with anyone, as long as the other person isn't Randy Orton, so yes. That's not even a knock on Orton, they just don't click at all. You can HEAR their non-syncing. It's like someone got half of the rhythm section drunk, and then plied the other half with enough mescaline to kill a bear, that has the strength of two bears. Opinions are like assholes and everything but I feel most people who call Cena a good ring worker are just trying too hard to be hipster. He's decent with the right opponent but the guy literally has the same match every week and the only thing that sets the matches apart are what moves his OPPONENT does. He has had great matches, I think he can still have them as well, but his number of great matches is small because he only really can tell a couple stories in the ring. Owens, Umaga, Michaels, all had great to amazing matches with him. Was that him elevating his game, or solely his style playing off someone specifically? I dunno.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 2:54:32 GMT -5
Cena matches that are good are emotion driven. Cena is decent in the ring, so is HHH. I wouldn't put either in the all time 50 ring workers. But that's just by a pure working standpoint that doesn't often matter in good matches.
They're good because there's the tension of wanting to see Cena beaten. It's the same reason some HHH matches are good. I wouldn't put Hogan in the all time 50 ring workers either but the crowd makes the match more than than the moves.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's kinda f***ed up that they always hinge on people rooting against Cena, the face, but oh well. If they want Cena to be a pretend face while being the heel in all his matches, so be it.
I know this isn't WWE but I'm sure many of you remember the Joe/Kobashi match. That was a good match. It really wasn't a great match. If you didn't know who either guy was you'd just lump it in with the 1000 other decent matches you've seen. But put the emotion in and now it's amongst the best matches. It's the same deal.
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DIIV
ALF
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Post by DIIV on Jun 27, 2015 2:59:00 GMT -5
His matches are based more off emotion than skill so I guess he has that going for him?
He's sloppy, his footwork is laughable and he calls moves unbelievablely loud to the point where I'm taken out of his matches completely. He's trash imo.
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Jun 27, 2015 3:10:08 GMT -5
Now?
Dude's been bringing it for YEARS. On PPV, you have to pair him with a real stiff to get under three snowflakes.
From a pure technical standpoint, he's still the simmering shits, but he can do that BIG MATCH, BIG MOMENT-style match WWE loves to do so much. Sure, it's often like a glorified videogame, but it's often exciting.
Either way, I'm a fan, even if I'm not at all loving how he gets booked half the time.
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
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Post by 67 more on Jun 27, 2015 3:16:14 GMT -5
In terms of technique, he's one of the worst wrestlers I've seen. He's clumsy, he's awkward, has no concept of selling, his punches suck, his STF sucks, he calls spots with a megaphone, he nearly breaks his neck everytime with the hurricanrana, he hits dropkicks with his body bent 90 degrees and he does everything he can to avoid taking a flat back bump (which has probably been the biggest reason for his body breaking down so much).
However, it's very rare to see him half-ass it despite all the pain he's in, he can get you invested in pretty much any match, he's never thrown a paddy at the crowd booing him (unlike Batista), he can wrestle very long matches and while he does stick to a formula nowadays, it's one that works and has produced great match after great match.
Cena is similar in a lot of ways to The Sandman, in the sense of while he's absolutely awful at a lot of things, it doesn't matter, you watch the match and you care about what happens.
Is he a good "worker"? No. Is he an amazing wrestler? Absolutely.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jun 27, 2015 3:18:12 GMT -5
Cena matches that are good are emotion driven. Cena is decent in the ring, so is HHH. I wouldn't put either in the all time 50 ring workers. But that's just by a pure working standpoint that doesn't often matter in good matches. They're good because there's the tension of wanting to see Cena beaten. It's the same reason some HHH matches are good. I just wanted to isolate this part of your point to respond to. I feel like the emotional investment is there because some have seemingly applied real consequences to their matches ("SPOILERCENAWINSLOL... Guess that's another rising star who's dead in the water and who'll never be taken seriously again", "Triple H buried another guy dead because he was more over than him")... consequences that, other than the Triple H v Daniel Bryan feud, are never even brought up in the televised story. And that goes back to the lack of consequences in the stories they're telling. Few get pissed off about losing matches or feuds (unless it's to build to a rematch), they just quickly move on to the next one. Matches don't seem so brutal when they're on RAW the next night without even having anything taped up as proof of said brutality.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Jun 27, 2015 3:20:55 GMT -5
He's really grown on me recently. Finally. After all these years. Sure, he's an all time great.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 27, 2015 3:28:04 GMT -5
Or, I'll at least say this much: he's better than the fat bastard he's feuding with.
Yeah no, Owens has proved not only is he equal to Cena, in some comparisons he's far better
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jun 27, 2015 3:28:51 GMT -5
God no
I think he's decent at best, Top 50 sure but he'd be around the 40's
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
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Post by 67 more on Jun 27, 2015 3:35:40 GMT -5
Or, I'll at least say this much: he's better than the fat bastard he's feuding with. Clash, are you actually John Cena and this is where you come to vent?
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Post by grimbiniho on Jun 27, 2015 3:49:08 GMT -5
I genuinely think he is. His matches always have an 'event' feel to them as well which adds to them. As others have said, he puts on great matches with all sizes and types. Erm... I think I've become a Cena fan without realising it until now!
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jun 27, 2015 3:53:14 GMT -5
Cena can have a good match with anyone, as long as the other person isn't Randy Orton, so yes. That's not even a knock on Orton, they just don't click at all. Anytime they've been "forced to tag", they have weirdly great tag chemistry, and always bust out great tag team versions of the RKO, but as opponents, they are mediocre at best, and I have no earthly idea why. Kind of like how Batista and Booker T are good, but had shitty matches together. I'm legitimately pressed we never got John Cena and Randy Orton as a legitimate tag-team. Besides the fact that it would free up the WWE title scene and allow for some new blood, they really do have amazing chemistry as a tag-team.
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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Jun 27, 2015 7:19:37 GMT -5
Anytime they've been "forced to tag", they have weirdly great tag chemistry, and always bust out great tag team versions of the RKO, but as opponents, they are mediocre at best, and I have no earthly idea why. Kind of like how Batista and Booker T are good, but had shitty matches together. I'm legitimately pressed we never got John Cena and Randy Orton as a legitimate tag-team. Besides the fact that it would free up the WWE title scene and allow for some new blood, they really do have amazing chemistry as a tag-team. When Cena makes that fabled heel turn, I've always wanted him and Orton to team up as The Glass Ceiling and rule the tag division like a new Two Man Power Trip. Just, without the singles titles. Just the tag belts.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Jun 27, 2015 8:20:27 GMT -5
Cena is a great in ring wrestler. He has put on some great matches over the last few years. The reasons for this are:
1. He is a very good wrestler
2. People are always invested in him and his big time feuds and this leads to exciting matches.
3. His matches get more than 10 minutes.
So yes Cena is a great wrestler and I'm a big fan of his. But one of the all time great in ring workers? No. A lot of his moves look awkward and while he works exciting matches he does not have the same technical abilities as a Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero or a Shawn Michaels.
Cena is an all time great but not an all time great in ring worker.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 27, 2015 8:24:31 GMT -5
There's absolutely no psychology in his matches and he's a poor seller. No. What I was gonna say. He's had a lot of good matches and if nothing else, he should be applauded for his longevity but there are just too many holes in his game for me to call him an all-time great worker.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jun 27, 2015 9:10:52 GMT -5
Yep
Very rarely if ever had a bad match.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jun 27, 2015 9:29:31 GMT -5
Cena matches for me are usually very good. He is lacking on selling but has had far too many top notch matches to deny his ability. That said he looks like crap doing almost every move.. It's a weird thing
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Jeff Mangum PI
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jun 27, 2015 9:42:41 GMT -5
Cena is just like the Rock where they're both kinda bad if you look at them from a technical standpoint. Both of them completely get the storytelling aspect of matches though, which is why they're considered great wrestlers.
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