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Post by Raskovnik on Jul 7, 2015 20:30:00 GMT -5
Cena's way too flawed for me to even unironically cheer him as a good guy if you ONLY watch the product you see on TV and ONLY judge him based on his character and promos. The Owens feud is the most recent example. Owens kicked his ass fair and square and pinned him clean in the first match, and Cena just said Owens wasn't a man and continually ran him down, goading him into a rematch. That's not virtuous at all. That's some lame f***ing shit. I've known people in real life who do the same shit and it's f***ing impossible to respect. Or there was that time Cena fought Rey for the title the same night Rey won a grueling tournament for it which is legitimately one of the biggest heel moves I can think of, ever, some straight up Edge shit, yet it was played completely straight. Or using cancer kids to completely neuter anyone who talks shit about him. That is so low. No one can even play off that and he knows it. He's that motherf***er who leaves $10 in the tip jar when he knows everyone is looking. He's that smug asshole who humblebrags on Twitter. He's that dude on Facebook who takes selfies with the homeless dude whose lunch he just bought to prove how nice he is. He's a big f***ing hypocrite and not even in an endearing way and he's been like this for years. Of course I'd turn my nose up at that, what the hell? I can't blame anyone for it. I personally much prefer Cena's "I'm the f***ing best and I know it, so bring it" elder statesman character that he brings out once a year because THAT'S who he is and THAT'S what he should be. Cut all the other bullshit out. And this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Reading posts like this is disheartening for me as a fan, so there's just no point. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or anything. I don't even think I'm being abrasive or just pulling shit out of thin air. It is just what his character is, or at least comes off as. I don't think Kevin Owens is a face, either. I'm not one of those dudes. They're both just two different kinds of heels squaring off from my point of view. John Cena is a philanthropic Derek from Step Brothers and Kevin Owens is a misanthropic bully. That's WWE's fault. I'm not just going to root for him because they tell me to. Make him consistently a good guy if you want him to be the good guy, or at least follow up on his more "human" moments instead of pretending they never happened. I mean, I look forward to his matches more than most others on any given card and I'm a fan of the guy, but you'll never catch me saying he's a face. Maybe that he's SUPPOSED to be the face. He has his moments of awesome babyface fire but they're too infrequent. Again, it's a WWE problem, but I'm not going to overlook it no matter whose fault it is.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 7, 2015 20:58:25 GMT -5
And this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Reading posts like this is disheartening for me as a fan, so there's just no point. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or anything. I don't even think I'm being abrasive or just pulling shit out of thin air. It is just what his character is, or at least comes off as. I don't think Kevin Owens is a face, either. I'm not one of those dudes. They're both just two different kinds of heels squaring off from my point of view. John Cena is a philanthropic Derek from Step Brothers and Kevin Owens is a misanthropic bully. That's WWE's fault. I'm not just going to root for him because they tell me to. Make him consistently a good guy if you want him to be the good guy, or at least follow up on his more "human" moments instead of pretending they never happened. I mean, I look forward to his matches more than most others on any given card and I'm a fan of the guy, but you'll never catch me saying he's a face. Maybe that he's SUPPOSED to be the face. He has his moments of awesome babyface fire but they're too infrequent. Again, it's a WWE problem, but I'm not going to overlook it no matter whose fault it is. Oh, I didn't think you were being mean, I apologize if that's how it came off. But I agree, it's primarily a company problem. Not saying that to prop Cena up or anything, that's just how it appears to me.
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Jul 7, 2015 21:30:19 GMT -5
If I personally cause you to dislike Cena then I do apologize. To start with, no, you're not really somebody I was talking about in regards to people's responses making me turn on Cena. It's people who have been a bit snarkier in this thread in regards to people questioning Cena's intentions. Though I guess I shouldn't complain, since I'm sure people can go back and finding me being just as snarky on similar subjects. I can completely see why you're a fan of Cena for these reasons (and Bryan as you mention later). Outside of the ring, Cena absolutely sounds like a great guy. The thing that makes things weird is that unlike most mediums like film and television, wrestling seems to be a strange mixture of both people playing characters and people playing themselves. So when it comes to the stuff like the Cesaro promo, I think it's more people wondering if this is Cena the character, Cena the person, or both. And I think it's an interesting discussion to have, but not everybody is going to care about it. I'm a big movie and TV guy. I like watching stuff from all eras and regions. And I've never been a guy who can "turn my brain off" when watching something. Not that I can't enjoy a "dumb action movie", as long as I'm immersed into what's going on, I have no problem, even if I can find flaws with what's going on. But if I don't like what I'm seeing, those little things add up and really irk me more and more. And I think that's the problem with Cena for me. And I know that most of the problems I have with Cena are more with the writing, but if you're watching any other TV show and there's a character you can't stand, you don't yell at the writing even though that's probably the issue, you just want the character off the show. I think a lot of this has to do with overexposure. Cena's been the top dog for a decade in an era where there's a weekly TV show where he's the highlight and a monthly Pay-Per-View that he usually main events. That means rougly 500 episodes of television and 100 pay-per-views where John Cena is the main focus. I'd honestly say people started getting tired of Cena around '09/'10, which at that point is around 250 episodes. Hell, most TV shows don't even make it to 250, and even then, it's near the tail run of their show and ratings are low because people are tired of it (People say The Simpsons starting getting bad around season 10/11, which is around the 200-250 episode range). Eventually, people just get burned out. And when that happens (at least to me), any problem they have with the show/a character just gets worse and worse, especially over a long period of time. It sound like you want to distinguish between in-character Cena and out-of-character Cena. And if that works for you, great. But like I've said, nowadays wrestling seems to be a mix of the two, so when you have these in-ring segments after the show it's tough to differentiate which Cena is talking, at least to me. And me personally, I don't have an issue with those post-show promos that he does, but like I said, it's interesting to me to see if it's his character, or him. Now, if stuff like that happens on-air, it does honestly come off as a bit patronizing to me, but I tend to be a bit more of a cynical guy in nature, so we're probably be on opposite sides on this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 21:35:50 GMT -5
Can't wait for this to lead to nothing.
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
Posts: 4,666
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Post by Hanzo on Jul 9, 2015 20:55:24 GMT -5
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 9, 2015 22:24:28 GMT -5
I don't doubt that John Cena meant what he said. Just the same, if he, the agent of the match, the writers, the booking committee, Triple H, or Vince McMahon, or the shareholders really want Cesaro to get over, they can try actually putting him over first, as in, winning a match against Cena in which he also looks good during the match. Getting over without being put over is kind of pointless when Cesaro is still in the same spot he is in now as he was 6 months or a year ago as one follows the product on TV week to week or even PPV to PPV. Yeah, that's the thing. You'll have guys like Daniel Bryan who benefitted from shitty booking, but the majority of the guys floundering right now would be over if Creative/Vince would just try putting them in storylines that make people want to see/boo/cheer them. You can have as big a following as you want, but it really does mean nothing if Vince doesn't want to use you.
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