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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 9, 2015 16:15:26 GMT -5
"Talent that couldn't really work" Eddie Guerrero Taz Chris Jericho Dean Malenko Rob Van Dam Jerry Lynn Shane Douglas Chris Candido Bam Bam Bigelow Raven Terry Funk 2 Cold Scorpio The Eliminators(Perry Saturn and John Kronus) Stevie Richards Cactus Jack And that's just off the top of my head. Yes, there were guys who were more exclusively hardcore, but those guys were MUCH fewer and farther between than you're giving Paul credit for. Yes, he did some scummy stuff, but in the pantheon of shitball promoters, he's not even a patch on the worst of them. Pretending it was all fat idiots hitting each other with random crap is really, REALLY old. It's 2015, pull your head out. Many of those names were there for one year or less and left at the first opportunity they could and definitely weren't used as a selling point for ECW the way that hardcore was.  That barb wire covered logo sure says 'stellar ring work is the priority here', don't it? Even then, I did not say -all- ECW talent were fat guys waffling oneanother with chairs or dumping them through tables, the problem is the guys who actively hurt oneanother with chairs were there for the long run, and yes, I lump RVD in with them because a great deal of his big spots involved kicking something hard into someone's face. Amazing athlete, but decades into his career he was still knocking people's teeth out. Paul Heyman had people injuring themselves for no pay, knowing there was no hope of them ever getting paid and played the victim when people went to a place where the cheques could actually be cashed, like the Mike Awesome situation. So judge a company by the logo? Have you even watched ECW or is Wikipedia & various articles your sources of info? ECW wasn't the 1st company that used hardcore. Bloody, out of control brawls were quite common in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. Puerto Rico was built of being an even bloodier version of the Memphis style. All Heyman did was take the deathmatch style of FMW, mixed it with the southern style, and wrapped it up in the counter culture, anti-PC sensibilities of the 90's to make ECW. ECW was more than chairs. It was more than flaming tables. More than bleeding like a stuck pig. Dusty Rhodes is a legend in the biz and he was bleeding before most of the ECW originals got their 1st pube. The Sheik stabbed his foes with pencils and used fireballs long before his famous nephew Sabu and trainee RVD were conceived. Blood may brought the crowd in but talent is what kept them coming back. You also go on about Heyman not paying guys while ignoring TNA's long term issues with pay. Paul was a scumbag in not paying on time. ECW wasn't flushed with money like most thought and it was one big kicking the can down the road when it came to money. Plenty of stories of people getting f***ed over when it came to money or promises especially from folks who still call Paul their friend. No whitewash on that. But TNA had people who went balls out performing while hurt and get told their check is in the mail. Only for that check not to show for months. And just like ECW, TNA made ends might check to check. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 9, 2015 16:20:57 GMT -5
Forgot to bury and praise Heyman. Genius, master motivator, scout of hidden talent w/o peer. But had no business holding a checkbook. As much as he ran down WCW, at least they had a business structure and people got paid (maybe too much, but I doubt any of the boys complained) Bubba Ray Dudley had the best quote about Heyman, it went something like this, that failure and stupidity killed ECW. Heyman was a genius that could create a great storyline in seconds, but as a businessman he was the shits, he couldn't manage a check book He also gave an example that Heyman would rather send tapes via express on a plane that the obvious and cheapest option, just mailing them using the postal service. If I'm not mistaken Todd Gordon on the Heyman DVD said something to the effect that they were gonna air ECW on a Florida station, but Heyman f***ed it up and lied to Todd, that's why he sold ECW to him, he got flustered and knew that he couldn't be partners with someone like that. Another sad story was the way he f***ed Dreamer. On the stone cold podcast, Tommy said that WCW wanted to work with ECW but Heyman wouldn't allow it because Vince would go crazy, that's when he suspected that Heyman was in bed with Vince. Another time Tommy found a buyer for ECW, the guy was gonna pay several millions of dollars, when it was time for them to have the meeting and sell it, Heyman didn't even bothered to show up. Paul was a corrupt businessman, a con artist, a liar, possibly a thief also. When he was a writer on the creative team he also did shady shit, he buried Court Bauer, also Stephanie on the Heyman DVD said that Paul would turn the developmental talent agains them. Maybe he ruined Punk's and the WWE's relationship, that I don't know. But unlike Dixie, he revolutionized the wrestling business. Dixie is also shady but a failure both creatively and in business. Honestly I think Heyman is worse after hearing these stories. Heyman is a genius who intentionally destroyed his own creation out of selfishness. Dixie is just naive, incompetent and doesn't have her priorities straight. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 18:41:09 GMT -5
Bubba Ray Dudley had the best quote about Heyman, it went something like this, that failure and stupidity killed ECW. Heyman was a genius that could create a great storyline in seconds, but as a businessman he was the shits, he couldn't manage a check book He also gave an example that Heyman would rather send tapes via express on a plane that the obvious and cheapest option, just mailing them using the postal service. If I'm not mistaken Todd Gordon on the Heyman DVD said something to the effect that they were gonna air ECW on a Florida station, but Heyman f***ed it up and lied to Todd, that's why he sold ECW to him, he got flustered and knew that he couldn't be partners with someone like that. Another sad story was the way he f***ed Dreamer. On the stone cold podcast, Tommy said that WCW wanted to work with ECW but Heyman wouldn't allow it because Vince would go crazy, that's when he suspected that Heyman was in bed with Vince. Another time Tommy found a buyer for ECW, the guy was gonna pay several millions of dollars, when it was time for them to have the meeting and sell it, Heyman didn't even bothered to show up. Paul was a corrupt businessman, a con artist, a liar, possibly a thief also. When he was a writer on the creative team he also did shady shit, he buried Court Bauer, also Stephanie on the Heyman DVD said that Paul would turn the developmental talent agains them. Maybe he ruined Punk's and the WWE's relationship, that I don't know. But unlike Dixie, he revolutionized the wrestling business. Dixie is also shady but a failure both creatively and in business. Honestly I think Heyman is worse after hearing these stories. Heyman is a genius who intentionally destroyed his own creation out of selfishness. Dixie is just naive, incompetent and doesn't have her priorities straight. And Dixie isn't selfishness either? This is a women who turn down 2 major channel for some d-list network because she wanted her stupid reality show. She risk the future of her company and it talents for herself. |
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Oct 9, 2015 18:51:50 GMT -5
Bubba Ray Dudley had the best quote about Heyman, it went something like this, that failure and stupidity killed ECW. Heyman was a genius that could create a great storyline in seconds, but as a businessman he was the shits, he couldn't manage a check book He also gave an example that Heyman would rather send tapes via express on a plane that the obvious and cheapest option, just mailing them using the postal service. If I'm not mistaken Todd Gordon on the Heyman DVD said something to the effect that they were gonna air ECW on a Florida station, but Heyman f***ed it up and lied to Todd, that's why he sold ECW to him, he got flustered and knew that he couldn't be partners with someone like that. Another sad story was the way he f***ed Dreamer. On the stone cold podcast, Tommy said that WCW wanted to work with ECW but Heyman wouldn't allow it because Vince would go crazy, that's when he suspected that Heyman was in bed with Vince. Another time Tommy found a buyer for ECW, the guy was gonna pay several millions of dollars, when it was time for them to have the meeting and sell it, Heyman didn't even bothered to show up. Paul was a corrupt businessman, a con artist, a liar, possibly a thief also. When he was a writer on the creative team he also did shady shit, he buried Court Bauer, also Stephanie on the Heyman DVD said that Paul would turn the developmental talent agains them. Maybe he ruined Punk's and the WWE's relationship, that I don't know. But unlike Dixie, he revolutionized the wrestling business. Dixie is also shady but a failure both creatively and in business. Honestly I think Heyman is worse after hearing these stories. Heyman is a genius who intentionally destroyed his own creation out of selfishness. Dixie is just naive, incompetent and doesn't have her priorities straight. Jesse Sorensen, Daffney, Nikki Roxx, and Konnan all say hi. Don't let Dixie's little "Golden Girls southern niceness" bullshit persona fool you. She's just as shitty a business person as Heyman was. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 9, 2015 19:45:10 GMT -5
Honestly I think Heyman is worse after hearing these stories. Heyman is a genius who intentionally destroyed his own creation out of selfishness. Dixie is just naive, incompetent and doesn't have her priorities straight. And Dixie isn't selfishness either? This is a women who turn down 2 major channel for some d-list network because she wants her stupid reality show. She risk the future of her company and it talents for herself. Didnt one of those networks want TNA to go dark for a year or something? |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 9, 2015 19:50:35 GMT -5
Heyman, for all his many flaws and faults, at least had an upside.
Dixie has had none of that.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
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Post by ICBM on Oct 9, 2015 20:36:36 GMT -5
I'm going to try to bullet point the very few good things Dixie Carter can be great vein credit for then starts brief list of her wrongs:
Helped finance TNA and was waaaay willing to operate at a defecit to get it growing
Saw the progress and reinvested
Got deal with monthly PPV after not even having a tv deal
Got the spike deal
Reinvested once it got traction
Kept fans informed (early early on she or someone at production made sure to announce milestones each week on impact)
Saw it pop and ensured money went toward the expansion (I'm talking between 07-09)
Recognized the flash point coming up and Took the chance no invested in Hogan and Bischoff. She missed wide right by a few thousand miles but she took a ballsy and expensive chance. Had it been a different chance they maybe would have exploded and got 2-5k live events and 2 ratings...but it didn't work.
Negatives:
Refused to listen to wrestling people around her, alienated them and they left one by one
Grabbed any WWE cast off and pushed them over her own guys. Look I can understand Christian, Angle, Jeff Hardy, Booker T and Foley but some of the signing were just foolish
The pay issues...I still don't know or completely accept the internet rumors (ZERO actual evidence has ever come out) about the knockouts low assed pay and the way way undercard low pay (Jesse Neal), but these days the pay failures have been publicly known. The worst offense in my mind would be the production guys not getting paid
Speaking of money, she never ever invested in marketing. They had at one point an almost complete grass roots audience of one and a half million. That is a ton of eyeballs and in the social media age they could have created far more fans. Had they aggressively advertised like WWE, UFC, top rank, the NFl etc. their name would be out there and once the word of mouth by actual fans was backed up TNA ads running during say football, basketball, baseball, or other popular shows that got the 18-39 yr old male, it would have increased. But they failed. You cannot put billboards in Stamford CT when you are running towns in California that month. It does no good at all
Not renewing Ra Ka King in India. Man that thing popped and they just didn't follow up. They had a gold mine and just let it slip
Not established shby no a power base as a fall back position. I've said this in here a dozen times or more. I know they started as a national company but if they had established themselves regionally by running the rest of Tennessee, Kentucky, S. Carolina, N. Carolina and Virginia, they would have been in Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Mississippi in a yr and and returned anytime they wanted after trying other markets. But instead she had them run Texas for a week, California for two days, then out of nowhere they'd run North Dakota and come back to Orlando...then they would never return to those cities. It was damned foolish period. If they had run a loop close for two yrs and expanded the loop just in the south, by year five they'd be established and it would take dynamite to blow em out of Biloxi, Huntsville, North Florida, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 21:10:42 GMT -5
And Dixie isn't selfishness either? This is a women who turn down 2 major channel for some d-list network because she wants her stupid reality show. She risk the future of her company and it talents for herself. Didnt one of those networks want TNA to go dark for a year or something? Kind of....it was WGN and wanted to aired them in March instead of January. |
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Oct 9, 2015 21:17:11 GMT -5
I'm going to try to bullet point the very few good things Dixie Carter can be great vein credit for then starts brief list of her wrongs: Helped finance TNA and was waaaay willing to operate at a defecit to get it growing Saw the progress and reinvested Got deal with monthly PPV after not even having a tv deal Got the spike deal Reinvested once it got traction Kept fans informed (early early on she or someone at production made sure to announce milestones each week on impact) Saw it pop and ensured money went toward the expansion (I'm talking between 07-09) Recognized the flash point coming up and Took the chance no invested in Hogan and Bischoff. She missed wide right by a few thousand miles but she took a ballsy and expensive chance. Had it been a different chance they maybe would have exploded and got 2-5k live events and 2 ratings...but it didn't work. Negatives: Refused to listen to wrestling people around her, alienated them and they left one by one Grabbed any WWE cast off and pushed them over her own guys. Look I can understand Christian, Angle, Jeff Hardy, Booker T and Foley but some of the signing were just foolish The pay issues...I still don't know or completely accept the internet rumors (ZERO actual evidence has ever come out) about the knockouts low assed pay and the way way undercard low pay (Jesse Neal), but these days the pay failures have been publicly known. The worst offense in my mind would be the production guys not getting paid Speaking of money, she never ever invested in marketing. They had at one point an almost complete grass roots audience of one and a half million. That is a ton of eyeballs and in the social media age they could have created far more fans. Had they aggressively advertised like WWE, UFC, top rank, the NFl etc. their name would be out there and once the word of mouth by actual fans was backed up TNA ads running during say football, basketball, baseball, or other popular shows that got the 18-39 yr old male, it would have increased. But they failed. You cannot put billboards in Stamford CT when you are running towns in California that month. It does no good at all Not renewing Ra Ka King in India. Man that thing popped and they just didn't follow up. They had a gold mine and just let it slip Not established shby no a power base as a fall back position. I've said this in here a dozen times or more. I know they started as a national company but if they had established themselves regionally by running the rest of Tennessee, Kentucky, S. Carolina, N. Carolina and Virginia, they would have been in Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Mississippi in a yr and and returned anytime they wanted after trying other markets. But instead she had them run Texas for a week, California for two days, then out of nowhere they'd run North Dakota and come back to Orlando...then they would never return to those cities. It was damned foolish period. If they had run a loop close for two yrs and expanded the loop just in the south, by year five they'd be established and it would take dynamite to blow em out of Biloxi, Huntsville, North Florida, etc. Jesse Neal LITERALLY tweeted about being able to go on food stamps, while under a TNA contract. Low talent pay was in no way "rumors". |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 21:25:44 GMT -5
And Dixie isn't selfishness either? This is a women who turn down 2 major channel for some d-list network because she wants her stupid reality show. She risk the future of her company and it talents for herself. Didnt one of those networks want TNA to go dark for a year or something? Only for a few months and even then, it's not like it'd be any worse than the position they're in now, on a D-list network making it abundantly clear they fully intend to cancel them while they have so little of a budget that they're going about six months between TV tapings and seem to have completely stopped doing shows in the US for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Oct 9, 2015 21:25:47 GMT -5
"Talent that couldn't really work" Eddie Guerrero Taz Chris Jericho Dean Malenko Rob Van Dam Jerry Lynn Shane Douglas Chris Candido Bam Bam Bigelow Raven Terry Funk 2 Cold Scorpio The Eliminators(Perry Saturn and John Kronus) Stevie Richards Cactus Jack And that's just off the top of my head. Yes, there were guys who were more exclusively hardcore, but those guys were MUCH fewer and farther between than you're giving Paul credit for. Yes, he did some scummy stuff, but in the pantheon of shitball promoters, he's not even a patch on the worst of them. Pretending it was all fat idiots hitting each other with random crap is really, REALLY old. It's 2015, pull your head out. Many of those names were there for one year or less and left at the first opportunity they could and definitely weren't used as a selling point for ECW the way that hardcore was. That barb wire covered logo sure says 'stellar ring work is the priority here', don't it? Even then, I did not say -all- ECW talent were fat guys waffling oneanother with chairs or dumping them through tables, the problem is the guys who actively hurt oneanother with chairs were there for the long run, and yes, I lump RVD in with them because a great deal of his big spots involved kicking something hard into someone's face. Amazing athlete, but decades into his career he was still knocking people's teeth out. Paul Heyman had people injuring themselves for no pay, knowing there was no hope of them ever getting paid and played the victim when people went to a place where the cheques could actually be cashed, like the Mike Awesome situation. You sound just like a hipster on RetroJunk, attempting to describe something he was never really a part of. First of all, apologies for that tone. Second of all, ECW is something that you would have had to be there to understand, even if you weren't in the bingo hall in South Philly. From 1994-1999, it was a hell of a ride that started with the Hardcore TV and went up to Barely Legal '97 and finally stopping on TNN. Third of all, ECW offered an alternative to the stale WCW and WWF programming of the day. WCW and WWF eventually poached the talent but without ECW, that talent wouldn't have stood a chance. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 10, 2015 4:51:20 GMT -5
So judge a company by the logo? Have you even watched ECW or is Wikipedia & various articles your sources of info? ECW wasn't the 1st company that used hardcore. Bloody, out of control brawls were quite common in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. Puerto Rico was built of being an even bloodier version of the Memphis style. All Heyman did was take the deathmatch style of FMW, mixed it with the southern style, and wrapped it up in the counter culture, anti-PC sensibilities of the 90's to make ECW. ECW was more than chairs. It was more than flaming tables. More than bleeding like a stuck pig. Dusty Rhodes is a legend in the biz and he was bleeding before most of the ECW originals got their 1st pube. The Sheik stabbed his foes with pencils and used fireballs long before his famous nephew Sabu and trainee RVD were conceived. Blood may brought the crowd in but talent is what kept them coming back. You also go on about Heyman not paying guys while ignoring TNA's long term issues with pay. Paul was a scumbag in not paying on time. ECW wasn't flushed with money like most thought and it was one big kicking the can down the road when it came to money. Plenty of stories of people getting f***ed over when it came to money or promises especially from folks who still call Paul their friend. No whitewash on that. But TNA had people who went balls out performing while hurt and get told their check is in the mail. Only for that check not to show for months. And just like ECW, TNA made ends might check to check. ECW wasn't the first company to use hardcore, but it was the first with aspirations of being a national western company in the modern era to make weapon usage a major part of the marketing of the company, and yes, I do think the presence of barbed wire on the logo is a relevant fact, no matter how often people say nuh huh, no ways. ECW was more than chairs and tables and swearing, but dashing people with weapon shots and dumping them through wooden tables was a major part of the promotion no matter how people wail and pretend that it was all about guys who were there for a year in 1995 and act like they were ever present and the heart and soul of the promotion. It wasn't all there is to ECW, but it was enough and he was the guy who booked and promoted it. TNA has problems when it comes to paying them, but Dixie isn't climbing up there on the cross when talent actually expect to get paid for their work the way Heyman did and still does to this day, she hasn't walked into a cushy job after leaving talent she owes tens of thousands to high and dry yet either. Don't for a minute assume I don't think Dixie is a scumbag, I stopped watching TNA entirely after the truth about Jesse Sorensen came to light, however, I think the damage caused by the wrestling 'style' that Heyman encouraged and the blind eye he turned to the rampant drug use in the lockerroom will be worse over the long term and but people give him a benefit of the doubt he does not in any way deserve as a promoter and person because he's a good booker. |
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717 
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Post by Glitch on Oct 10, 2015 5:22:11 GMT -5
This leans way more toward Dixie, but I will give her credit for one thing. She will likely be the last person to jump off the sinking ship of tna. Whereas heyman left the ecw talent on their own as soon as the writing was on the wall.
Although I'm only speculating. Who the hell knows if Dixie would immediately abandon tna if a reality show did develop.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Oct 10, 2015 5:56:56 GMT -5
I'm going to try to bullet point the very few good things Dixie Carter can be great vein credit for then starts brief list of her wrongs: Helped finance TNA and was waaaay willing to operate at a defecit to get it growing Saw the progress and reinvested Got deal with monthly PPV after not even having a tv deal Got the spike deal Reinvested once it got traction Kept fans informed (early early on she or someone at production made sure to announce milestones each week on impact) Saw it pop and ensured money went toward the expansion (I'm talking between 07-09) Recognized the flash point coming up and Took the chance no invested in Hogan and Bischoff. She missed wide right by a few thousand miles but she took a ballsy and expensive chance. Had it been a different chance they maybe would have exploded and got 2-5k live events and 2 ratings...but it didn't work. Negatives: Refused to listen to wrestling people around her, alienated them and they left one by one Grabbed any WWE cast off and pushed them over her own guys. Look I can understand Christian, Angle, Jeff Hardy, Booker T and Foley but some of the signing were just foolish The pay issues...I still don't know or completely accept the internet rumors (ZERO actual evidence has ever come out) about the knockouts low assed pay and the way way undercard low pay (Jesse Neal), but these days the pay failures have been publicly known. The worst offense in my mind would be the production guys not getting paid Speaking of money, she never ever invested in marketing. They had at one point an almost complete grass roots audience of one and a half million. That is a ton of eyeballs and in the social media age they could have created far more fans. Had they aggressively advertised like WWE, UFC, top rank, the NFl etc. their name would be out there and once the word of mouth by actual fans was backed up TNA ads running during say football, basketball, baseball, or other popular shows that got the 18-39 yr old male, it would have increased. But they failed. You cannot put billboards in Stamford CT when you are running towns in California that month. It does no good at all Not renewing Ra Ka King in India. Man that thing popped and they just didn't follow up. They had a gold mine and just let it slip Not established shby no a power base as a fall back position. I've said this in here a dozen times or more. I know they started as a national company but if they had established themselves regionally by running the rest of Tennessee, Kentucky, S. Carolina, N. Carolina and Virginia, they would have been in Georgia, Florida, Alabama and Mississippi in a yr and and returned anytime they wanted after trying other markets. But instead she had them run Texas for a week, California for two days, then out of nowhere they'd run North Dakota and come back to Orlando...then they would never return to those cities. It was damned foolish period. If they had run a loop close for two yrs and expanded the loop just in the south, by year five they'd be established and it would take dynamite to blow em out of Biloxi, Huntsville, North Florida, etc. Jesse Neal LITERALLY tweeted about being able to go on food stamps, while under a TNA contract. Low talent pay was in no way "rumors". Wasn't Taylor Wilde working in Sunglasses Hut as she needed a second job despite being the face of the Knockouts Division? Paul Heyman made something from nothing. Dixie Carter had EVERYTHING she needed to make TNA a massive global brand and she cocked it up. |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 10, 2015 6:42:23 GMT -5
So judge a company by the logo? Have you even watched ECW or is Wikipedia & various articles your sources of info? ECW wasn't the 1st company that used hardcore. Bloody, out of control brawls were quite common in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. Puerto Rico was built of being an even bloodier version of the Memphis style. All Heyman did was take the deathmatch style of FMW, mixed it with the southern style, and wrapped it up in the counter culture, anti-PC sensibilities of the 90's to make ECW. ECW was more than chairs. It was more than flaming tables. More than bleeding like a stuck pig. Dusty Rhodes is a legend in the biz and he was bleeding before most of the ECW originals got their 1st pube. The Sheik stabbed his foes with pencils and used fireballs long before his famous nephew Sabu and trainee RVD were conceived. Blood may brought the crowd in but talent is what kept them coming back. You also go on about Heyman not paying guys while ignoring TNA's long term issues with pay. Paul was a scumbag in not paying on time. ECW wasn't flushed with money like most thought and it was one big kicking the can down the road when it came to money. Plenty of stories of people getting f***ed over when it came to money or promises especially from folks who still call Paul their friend. No whitewash on that. But TNA had people who went balls out performing while hurt and get told their check is in the mail. Only for that check not to show for months. And just like ECW, TNA made ends might check to check. ECW wasn't the first company to use hardcore, but it was the first with aspirations of being a national western company in the modern era to make weapon usage a major part of the marketing of the company, and yes, I do think the presence of barbed wire on the logo is a relevant fact, no matter how often people say nuh huh, no ways. ECW was more than chairs and tables and swearing, but dashing people with weapon shots and dumping them through wooden tables was a major part of the promotion no matter how people wail and pretend that it was all about guys who were there for a year in 1995 and act like they were ever present and the heart and soul of the promotion. It wasn't all there is to ECW, but it was enough and he was the guy who booked and promoted it. TNA has problems when it comes to paying them, but Dixie isn't climbing up there on the cross when talent actually expect to get paid for their work the way Heyman did and still does to this day, she hasn't walked into a cushy job after leaving talent she owes tens of thousands to high and dry yet either. Don't for a minute assume I don't think Dixie is a scumbag, I stopped watching TNA entirely after the truth about Jesse Sorensen came to light, however, I think the damage caused by the wrestling 'style' that Heyman encouraged and the blind eye he turned to the rampant drug use in the lockerroom will be worse over the long term and but people give him a benefit of the doubt he does not in any way deserve as a promoter and person because he's a good booker. Seriously, have you even watched any ECW shows because you make the same arguments that people make about CZW when their only viewing experience is from Bothamania clips? WWF, NWA, WCW, and AWA used violence and blood in their marketing long before ECW. Mid South/UWF marketed itself the same way as minus barbwire logo. And ECW ruining pro wrestling with its style? So wrong. Drug addiction became an major epidemic in the 80s and no one was getting in the head with a chair during that time. Yeah the ECW lockerroom had a nasty drug problem but so did everywhere else. TNA themselves got issues with drug usage. Can't blame Heyman for TNA sending out a stoned Jeff Hardy to wrestle knowing he was in no condition to perform numerous times. Or a pilled out Kurt Angle working with a body beyond f***ed up. They got their own demons in the lockerroom. Dixie put people's careers and families on the line in the pursuit of a reality show. That is just as bad as Paul not telling his guys he took a WWE deal while telling them everything is kosher. |
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Oct 10, 2015 7:07:40 GMT -5
Dixie.
Hell as far as I'm concerned Dixie is what would happen if took all of Heyman's worst attributes as promoter and then cranked them up to 11 but at the same time left out all of his good ones.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 10, 2015 9:00:43 GMT -5
WCCW had huge drug problems, on on-screen the Von Erichs boys were as wholesome as you could get.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Oct 10, 2015 10:07:16 GMT -5
On Jesse Neal: oh you mean an undercard, grass green rookie would complain about pay? Nah never happen
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Oct 10, 2015 11:12:04 GMT -5
On Jesse Neal: oh you mean an undercard, grass green rookie would complain about pay? Nah never happen A man with a featured spot on a nationally televised wrestling program qualified for food stamps. How on EARTH can you just write that off? |
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Oct 10, 2015 11:20:05 GMT -5
On Jesse Neal: oh you mean an undercard, grass green rookie would complain about pay? Nah never happen A man with a featured spot on a nationally televised wrestling program qualified for food stamps. How on EARTH can you just write that off? One performer on a roster of about fifty performers. He did not stand out. Had he popped the folks and moved up the card, his check would have gotten bigger. That is how it works. The opposite of this is communism. |
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