Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Feb 9, 2016 20:48:45 GMT -5
Going to have to jump in there because, even though it's been while, Cena was very much in the same position that your Daniel Bryan's and Dean Ambrose's were and/or are in. Where he was crazy popular and yet he would get booked into losing feuds to guys like Benoit, and Lesnar, and Taker. I know it's been a long time since Cena has been in this position, but this recent thing of Cena always being the golden boy who had all the booking in his favor from the getgo is a myth. His first match on the main roster was a close contest with Kurt Angle, he got a show of respect from the Udnertaker afterward. He then went into a feud with former World Champion Chris Jericho, tagged with then turned on Kidman in a short period of time and became the heel rapper then went into a feud with World Champion Brock Lesnar within a year of his debut. He lost the feud because he wasn't at the point he could carry the company, that wasn't a burial, that was a pretty solid push followed by a spell in the upper midcard consolidating his position before he received the big win, something they should have done with Reigns. He may not have been the guy they wanted to carry the company but they always had big plans for him and protected him more than others who came up around the same time. So in other words, Cena got to work in prominent feuds, losing to guys who have already been in the company for years? Something we crucify the company for for doing to Bryan and Punk and Owens and Ambrose. There was a time he was floundering, and he definitely gor himself over (and salvaged his career according to Steph) but like Roman, they're wanted him to be the guy since day one. They really wanted Orton to be their top guy. Cena was their consolation prize, and ended up a much better choice in the long run. There's no doubt they saw him as a main eventer around 2003, but they were building the throne for Orton for a long while before they looked at Cena that way. Hell, Cena was option C after Orton and Batista.
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KT
Mike the Goon
Loves the Dubains
Everything Lives.
Posts: 6
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Post by KT on Feb 9, 2016 22:33:06 GMT -5
I don't believe it's fair to compare the two. Both have finished up under completely different circumstances and the one-sided information that we're privy to would indicate to me that executives did not place Punk in a high enough position in spite of all the boxes he ticked. The only area that he was obviously lacking in was tact and could be seen as unprofessional at times - but from all accounts WWE seems to be quite an ad-hoc (Take it as it comes) company and I think that if I was trying my hardest and getting nowhere, I'd get quite a significant chip on my shoulder.
In fact I've left jobs because there's been no opportunity to be taken seriously.
In terms of Daniel Bryan, he's really just the right guy at the wrong time and brilliant all over.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 9, 2016 22:41:04 GMT -5
Going to have to jump in there because, even though it's been while, Cena was very much in the same position that your Daniel Bryan's and Dean Ambrose's were and/or are in. Where he was crazy popular and yet he would get booked into losing feuds to guys like Benoit, and Lesnar, and Taker. I know it's been a long time since Cena has been in this position, but this recent thing of Cena always being the golden boy who had all the booking in his favor from the getgo is a myth. His first match on the main roster was a close contest with Kurt Angle, he got a show of respect from the Udnertaker afterward. He then went into a feud with former World Champion Chris Jericho, tagged with then turned on Kidman in a short period of time and became the heel rapper then went into a feud with World Champion Brock Lesnar within a year of his debut. He lost the feud because he wasn't at the point he could carry the company, that wasn't a burial, that was a pretty solid push followed by a spell in the upper midcard consolidating his position before he received the big win, something they should have done with Reigns. He may not have been the guy they wanted to carry the company but they always had big plans for him and protected him more than others who came up around the same time. The heel rapper gimmick was basically a glorified comedy gimmick. It wasn't until Cena turned face that we were supposed to "take him seriously".
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KT
Mike the Goon
Loves the Dubains
Everything Lives.
Posts: 6
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Post by KT on Feb 9, 2016 22:57:44 GMT -5
His first match on the main roster was a close contest with Kurt Angle, he got a show of respect from the Udnertaker afterward. He then went into a feud with former World Champion Chris Jericho, tagged with then turned on Kidman in a short period of time and became the heel rapper then went into a feud with World Champion Brock Lesnar within a year of his debut. He lost the feud because he wasn't at the point he could carry the company, that wasn't a burial, that was a pretty solid push followed by a spell in the upper midcard consolidating his position before he received the big win, something they should have done with Reigns. He may not have been the guy they wanted to carry the company but they always had big plans for him and protected him more than others who came up around the same time. The heel rapper gimmick was basically a glorified comedy gimmick. It wasn't until Cena turned face that we were supposed to "take him seriously". I think they gave it a good crack though to be fair, he did spend time up against the likes of Benoit, Guerrero and Undertaker while as a heel.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 10, 2016 9:55:57 GMT -5
So in other words, Cena got to work in prominent feuds, losing to guys who have already been in the company for years? Something we crucify the company for for doing to Bryan and Punk and Owens and Ambrose. Context is key, they hadn't spent 10 years making the midcard seem like an irrelevancy and training the audience to believe that if you're not part time, Cena or whoever Cena's feuding with, you don't matter to them and shouldn't matter to the audience. He rose up in the era where they were trying to make new stars, and no-one Cena was paired with as a rising star was in any way comparable to being asked to work a hot feud with a near 20 years past his prime Kevin Nash, Triple 'You're not looking good coming out of this' H or stale as stale can be Kane. Ambrose' treatment irritates people more than it should because he's being made to play second fiddle to a guy who isn't quite as good (yet), who doesn't have the fan support to be where he is on the crowd, but is given the world anyway.
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