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Post by dirtyoldman on Aug 24, 2017 19:56:35 GMT -5
One of the reasons Ive heard for the msj, is that Vince was terrified of bret trashing the title on wcw t.v.like what happened to the woman's title. But c"mon, would the hitman actually have done that? For someone whose father and family were heavily involved in the business, surely that would be something bret would nevet do ((and im sure his dad might have given him a whopping for being so dishonorable).
Also, why did he risk putting it on Shawn? Last time shawn held the title he vacanted it causr he lost his smile or something. And since Shawn had friends over in wcw who were high up, it was always possible he could have randomly turned up on nitro, off his face on drugs and trash the title.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Aug 24, 2017 19:58:43 GMT -5
I don't understand why vince just didn't have security confiscate the title after the ppv, even after he walked through the curtain to the back.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Aug 24, 2017 20:19:08 GMT -5
I don't understand why vince just didn't have security confiscate the title after the ppv, even after he walked through the curtain to the back. Who needs security? I'd have just got Ken Shamrock to get the title off Bret! |
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Post by DASH 243✅ on Aug 24, 2017 20:56:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why vince just didn't have security confiscate the title after the ppv, even after he walked through the curtain to the back. Or just take the belt when he's in the match. |
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 24, 2017 21:23:55 GMT -5
I don't understand why vince just didn't have security confiscate the title after the ppv, even after he walked through the curtain to the back. No dice; they'd all be too distracted by the tears in their eyes and passionately telling him he had one of the greatest matches they'd ever seen to remember to grab the belt back. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 21:31:19 GMT -5
a) I doubt that Bret would have actually done it.
b) If he did abscond with the title then surely they could file an injunction demanding the return of their property and banning it from being shown on a competitors television(even Paul E. figured that one out)
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 24, 2017 22:20:45 GMT -5
Vince trusted Bret, but he didn't trust Bischoff. There was talk of maybe having Bret come back and drop the title another date, but by the day after Survivor Series, Bischoff would have been allowed to talk about how the WWE champion was coming to WCW, and Vince didn't believe any of Eric's reassurances, because of course he didn't, dude was a f***ing liar and would have immediately started taking potshots at him over it. WCW could have dealt a blow without trashing the title again, and Vince wasn't going to let them have it.
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Post by myrvarg on Aug 24, 2017 23:05:51 GMT -5
It was completely a pride thing. Vince didn't want the belt to go to a guy exiting the WWF and after Alundra Blaze dropped the women's championship in the trash can there was no way he was letting anything close to that happen again, especially with the company's most valuable belt.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 24, 2017 23:10:56 GMT -5
Vince trusted Bret, but he didn't trust Bischoff. There was talk of maybe having Bret come back and drop the title another date, but by the day after Survivor Series, Bischoff would have been allowed to talk about how the WWE champion was coming to WCW, and Vince didn't believe any of Eric's reassurances, because of course he didn't, dude was a f***ing liar and would have immediately started taking potshots at him over it. WCW could have dealt a blow without trashing the title again, and Vince wasn't going to let them have it. This. Bischoff would have crowed his damned head off (or had Tony do it) about the WWF champion leaving to come to WCW, and talk shit about their talent. |
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Aug 25, 2017 1:50:40 GMT -5
Yeah, you've got to remember these shows were going head to head at the same time, literally, just one channel click apart.
Having the WWF champ show up on WCW, or even to have them say that he's coming while he's still the WWE champ, was an intolerable possibility.
The WORST thing WWF could have had happen in such a hotly competitive situation would be to give the general impression to the wrestilng world that the WCW's new guy was the guy wearing the WWF's most valuable and visible title. The endless "Our champ is better than your champ" claims would have hurt, but even more devastating would be to have the "real WWF champ" show up on WCW and be jobbed out to the WCW champ to prove that brand's "superiority."
Plus, Bret screwed Bret.
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Post by mauled on Aug 25, 2017 5:32:29 GMT -5
I don't understand why vince just didn't have security confiscate the title after the ppv, even after he walked through the curtain to the back. Who needs security? I'd have just got Ken Shamrock to get the title off Bret! Bret did offer to drop the belt to Shamrock, in fact Taker/Austin even Steve Lombardi . Basically he offered to drop it to anyone except Shawn |
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Post by mauled on Aug 25, 2017 5:49:21 GMT -5
One of the reasons Ive heard for the msj, is that Vince was terrified of bret trashing the title on wcw t.v.like what happened to the woman's title. But c"mon, would the hitman actually have done that? For someone whose father and family were heavily involved in the business, surely that would be something bret would nevet do ((and im sure his dad might have given him a whopping for being so dishonorable). Also, why did he risk putting it on Shawn? Last time shawn held the title he vacanted it causr he lost his smile or something. And since Shawn had friends over in wcw who were high up, it was always possible he could have randomly turned up on nitro, off his face on drugs and trash the title. Bret says he went to Shawn and said he would put him over but Shawn turned round and said he wasn't prepared to do the same. After that he wasn't jobbing to Shawn no matter what |
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Post by Rumble McSkirmish on Aug 25, 2017 5:51:57 GMT -5
Another factor was that there was talk of the office asking Bret to drop the belt before Survivor Series, but Bret argued that the feud was too big and that he just had to come into Canada as the champion.
Granted this is just rumor and innuendo (TM Conrad Thompson), but it is a plausible theory as to why Vince didn't do just that and avoid the whole mess altogether.
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 25, 2017 8:09:53 GMT -5
I think a major part of it is Vince thinking "Who the hell is this guy, who is leaving the company, to tell me who he will and will not job the title against?" We know from the leaked HHH/HBK/Vince discussions that the plan was always to do Shawn/Austin at WM (at least by Nov. 1997) so the best way to get to that point was Shawn winning the title and Bret leaves.
What I'm sort of baffled by is why even put the title on Bret anyway? His last run was basically nothing, just feuding 2nd from the top with The Patriot and Vader. They could have just gotten around the Summerslam situation by having Shawn bash both men with a chair and walk away, no decision. Then they could do the HBK/Taker feud and have Kane debut and cost Taker the title at HIAC in Oct. Even if you do Bret/Shawn at Survivor Series at least he doesn't have the belt going in and Vince is in a position to do a DQ or whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 8:22:28 GMT -5
Who needs security? I'd have just got Ken Shamrock to get the title off Bret! Bret did offer to drop the belt to Shamrock, in fact Taker/Austin even Steve Lombardi . Basically he offered to drop it to anyone except Shawn Shamrock was one of the guys upset Bret was leaving because he was promised a win over him. That kinda explains why he was so ticked off...so they turned it into a thing. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 25, 2017 14:54:24 GMT -5
The title belt itself wasn't the issue. Bret's status as champion was.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Aug 25, 2017 15:39:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure I've ever heard someone take wrestling as seriously as Bret. He always seemed like too much of a jam up guy to do something like steal a title.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 25, 2017 17:05:50 GMT -5
The title belt itself wasn't the issue. Bret's status as champion was. Yeah, the belt would've been a nice bonus for Bischoff, but the real boon for him would've been parading the reigning WWF Champion on Nitro. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 25, 2017 17:16:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Bret's deal didn't expire until Dec. 1, 1997, or at least I remember hearing something like that. The problem is that the next PPV (DX IYH) wasn't until the 7th and thus he would still be gone. You'd think Vince would have at least had the wherewithal to keep Bret signed until the end of the year so there would be time to think of how to get the belt off him. I suppose they could have jobbed him at random to Shamrock and given Ken a nothing transition run, but at the end of the day it's a lot of hoops to jump through for a guy that is leaving. In Bret's book it was noted that his sister Diana gave Bret crap about it years later, blaming him for how things had turned out between the Harts and Vince "because you wouldn't just do a job for Shawn Michaels."
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Post by mauled on Aug 26, 2017 0:57:00 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Bret's deal didn't expire until Dec. 1, 1997, or at least I remember hearing something like that. The problem is that the next PPV (DX IYH) wasn't until the 7th and thus he would still be gone. You'd think Vince would have at least had the wherewithal to keep Bret signed until the end of the year so there would be time to think of how to get the belt off him. I suppose they could have jobbed him at random to Shamrock and given Ken a nothing transition run, but at the end of the day it's a lot of hoops to jump through for a guy that is leaving. In Bret's book it was noted that his sister Diana gave Bret crap about it years later, blaming him for how things had turned out between the Harts and Vince "because you wouldn't just do a job for Shawn Michaels." The most obvious choice was to use the Undertaker. Bret had beaten him for the belt and so storyline wise it wouldn't have hurt him getting it back. Bret could not complain about looking weak because hey it's Taker. Shawn was also feuding with Taker afterward so if they wanted the belt he could have done it that way too. |
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