segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on May 14, 2018 4:02:25 GMT -5
What do people think about kayfabe these days? Perhaps kayfabe should be restricted to only the in ring product. So of course not outright spoiling storylines, even tv shows don't give away the twist ending ahead of time, or who's going to be killed off, but just outside of the ring to stop trying give any appearance of pretending any of it ids real. On the one hand I like to think that when we can cheer a wrestler outside the ring to win their upcoming match, whereas we can't really cheer the actor portraying batman to kick jokers ass in the same way. But that's a pretty weak argument, and tbh kayfabe literally is dead. We know the show is fake, so outside of the actual show (ppvs/raw/SD) why do we need to act in character at all? Besides wrestlers act in movies and such, and wrestling itself is just another media like a book or a video game, and we certainly don't pretend those are real. Even WWE.com should be presented more like a tv website. Look at the official game of thrones website www.hbo.com/game-of-thronesIt's presented professionally. But there is not even a hint of "kayfabe" about it and that's fine. Compare it with WWE.com.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on May 14, 2018 4:48:58 GMT -5
Kayfabe is a shadow that will always loom on wrestling.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 14, 2018 5:25:05 GMT -5
I'm really not sure at all.
Given the choice, I'd prefer not to have to care much about the wrestlers' lives outside of the ring (at least in North America, it's a lot easier to not know anything about Japanese' wrestlers personal lives) but I also know it's pretty much unavoidable at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 5:27:43 GMT -5
Pretend everything is real when onscreen (and on the website) and acknowledge that it's fake when offscreen. For some reason WWE struggles with both of these things.
Though for the record while I'm as much of a death to kayfabe guy as possible, I'm vastly more irritated by shit like the Roman Reigns character whining about the writers changing the results on him.
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Post by Yacht Persona on May 14, 2018 5:31:38 GMT -5
I get more annoyed with "shoots" and breaking of the fourth wall than wrestlers maintaining kayfabe, though it was fun back in the day when wrestlers would go on talk shows in character.
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The Gallus Mark
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Post by The Gallus Mark on May 14, 2018 5:49:29 GMT -5
Yes we do. Shooting is tired at this point, it has been almost 7 years since the original Pipebomb and we've had what, 3-4 in-ring "shoots" that have even been cool since amongst dozens.
Kayfabe should be kept during shows and while I kinda enjoy it outside of the shows, I would be fine if it was dead outside of the WWE bubble.
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Post by MrElijah on May 14, 2018 6:43:35 GMT -5
Yes. We're all in the secret but......make it feel like Roman wants to beat the shit outta Jinder, that being a champion means everything and a blood feud is as brutal as it sounds.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
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Post by pegasuswarrior on May 14, 2018 6:49:47 GMT -5
Every time I see this argument and imposed will on the fan base, I see the image of someone peering over others’ shoulders, just waiting, stalking, scouting for opportunities: “ooooh, what do we have here? this thing you like, yeah, let me just take a whizz all over it there for ya. we can’t have that.”
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
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Post by thecrusherwi on May 14, 2018 7:09:26 GMT -5
I guess it depends how you are defining kayfabe, because there is a very broad definition used in threads like these. I don't think there's a single person that wants them breaking kayfabe during the shows. Maybe a wink or a nod during a promo is ok as long is it also works in the kayfabe storyline. But the shoot stuff is awful. Outside of that, I guess it varies for me.
-I would really like them not to have any kayfabe-conflicting video packages during the regular shows, including Network promos, or charity recaps. I prefer people being put of character during Network and DVD documentaries.
-I mostly ignore wrestler social media so I guess I don't care how it's used.
-As far as assuming your character name outside of wrestling? I guess I don't care either way, but I still believe that wrestling is unique and you might lose something if you treat your wrestlers exactly like they were actors on any other TV show. At the end of the day, your biggest draw is always going to be selling fights - fixed or not. I don't know how many new fans you're going to attract to give wrestling a try if you make it so blatantly obvious that this is all bullshit. The curiosity for non-fans has always been "How much of this is real and how much is show?". For people who think kayfabe is as dead as a doornail, talk to some novice or casual fans. I've had very intelligent people ask me questions that make them sound like marks from 30 years ago. I think wresting would be wise to not strictly adhere to kayfabe, but it would be a mistake to completely pull back the curtain and lose that sense of mystery.
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Post by Tenshigure on May 14, 2018 8:05:46 GMT -5
Kayfabe may not be the same as it once was, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should throw it out the window altogether. The best of wrestling is when the fiction and reality lines are blurred, and when people are 'in character,' they should be playing it like that's their part of the universe. At the same time, nothing takes the childlike wonder of professional wrestling and grinds it to dust more than a non-insider journalist trying to out-smark everyone by calling the wrestlers by their real names in an almost spiteful manner, especially when audiences and kids alike are used to referring to their idols by their professional wrestling names.
It's a balancing act, and a difficult one that that. Lean too hard into kayfabe and you're treating your audience like idiots who don't have a say in what the product is showcasing; lean too far away and you've got Vince Russo's "I'm not going off a script despite the fact that I am!" nonsense. There needs to be balance (insert 'Vince as Thanos' joke here), with respect to the ever-changing exposure the business has thanks to social media platforms.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on May 14, 2018 10:22:15 GMT -5
Yes we do. Shooting is tired at this point, it has been almost 7 years since the original Pipebomb and we've had what, 3-4 in-ring "shoots" that have even been cool since amongst dozens. Kayfabe should be kept during shows and while I kinda enjoy it outside of the shows, I would be fine if it was dead outside of the WWE bubble. I had quite honestly never seen the Andy Kaufmann/Lawler stuff before today. Not a single thing. They really kept kayfabe up outside all the shows, on other talkshows....well really until the end of his life. What do you think of that?
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Post by Mister Pigwell on May 14, 2018 10:24:38 GMT -5
Absolutely. We know it's BS but it's a hoot to play along with.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 10:32:35 GMT -5
Yes we do....but only if the company is willing to go all the way with it because half assing is a huge annoyance about WWE and plays into what I believe is an identity crsis.
If they want to shoot and be all grounded and fully in on being a sport than no Kayfabe is not needed.
But they wanna trot out Taker and Broken Hardy so in this case it is needed.
Again a case of that identity crisis and half assing by trying to be both instead of committing to a singular path.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 14, 2018 10:45:41 GMT -5
Yes. Fans want to lose themselves in the show. They can't stay invested if you're pointing out it's fixed.
For talk shows and podcasts, I'm fine with wrestlers shooting. The wrestling shows and broadcasts should act as if it's real.
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Post by eJm on May 14, 2018 10:53:03 GMT -5
Yes. Fans want to lose themselves in the show. They can't stay invested if you're pointing out it's fixed. For talk shows and podcasts, I'm fine with wrestlers shooting. The wrestling shows and broadcasts should act as if it's real. Pretty much where I stand. Like I said in a previous thread, I went to two shows this weekend where I personally know some of the talent working but I treat them like they're performers and not as mates. It's like if you know someone performing in a play and treat them like an actor performing as the character and not as a friend performing. It helps the experience and the immersion, yet you can feel really happy for them. Even then, when a shot is hit that looks vicious, I still think "Shit, did that actually hit?" and it helps the immersion because of how the sport can be. WWE's problem is that they do these worked shoots and don't really have a structured reason for them, they just do it for attention. Breaking the fourth wall in other TV shows is done as a throwaway gag, WWE treats them like damn important core plot points.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,145
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 14, 2018 10:53:25 GMT -5
Yes we do....but only if the company is willing to go all the way with it because half assing is a huge annoyance about WWE and plays into what I believe is an identity crsis. If they want to shoot and be all grounded and fully in on being a sport than no Kayfabe is not needed. But they wanna trot out Taker and Broken Hardy so in this case it is needed. Again a case of that identity crisis and half assing by trying to be both instead of committing to a singular path. For the most part,I really don't want the talent to "be themselves" to the point where their personal lives are fair game and how we feel about a performer hinges on their interests, their musical tastes, or their social activism (or lack thereof).
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Juice
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Post by Juice on May 14, 2018 11:09:25 GMT -5
Kayfabe in wrestling is necessary without it its just people doing performance art or pretend fighting
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Post by theunknownbotch on May 14, 2018 11:13:29 GMT -5
It is a critical part of the entertainment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 11:15:16 GMT -5
Yes we do....but only if the company is willing to go all the way with it because half assing is a huge annoyance about WWE and plays into what I believe is an identity crsis. If they want to shoot and be all grounded and fully in on being a sport than no Kayfabe is not needed. But they wanna trot out Taker and Broken Hardy so in this case it is needed. Again a case of that identity crisis and half assing by trying to be both instead of committing to a singular path. For the most part,I really don't want the talent to "be themselves" to the point where their personal lives are fair game and how we feel about a performer hinges on their interests, their musical tastes, or their social activism (or lack thereof). It is what I mean by WWE half assing it they wanna try and play up their fantastical elements or tell us how vile this heel is and then run on about social media and 800 advertisements about the person and what good deeds they are doing right after. www.instagram.com/p/BiwtHeFlisd/You wanna bet they run this exact shot on Raw tonight all while not explaining why the hell Stephanie and Ronda and HHH are all buddy buddy after Ronda broke Stephanies arm.
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repomark
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Post by repomark on May 14, 2018 11:49:42 GMT -5
No kayfabe would be the equivalent of Arnie pointing out midway through Terminator that he isnt really a cyborg. Kayfabe/investing in it as if it is “real” is is all part of the fun
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