Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 22:07:00 GMT -5
I was done with WWE and Kayfabe once they pulled that womens royal rumble announcement.
Oh here is all women who hate one another all at each others throats
Oh here they are all united and happy together because mama Stephanie has arrived and everyone is jumping for joy and hugging each other
WWE touting Kayfabe is always going to be laughable...I always say there are IMO only 2 companies that know exactly what they are and keep their kayfabe consistent within the confines of their company..LU and NJPW.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 22:45:52 GMT -5
Kayfabe does not exist anymore. The WWE is weird as hell. The audience, commentators and performers are all in on it together. It makes no sense but somehow still works for the E.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 17, 2018 5:05:29 GMT -5
I was done with WWE and Kayfabe once they pulled that womens royal rumble announcement. Oh here is all women who hate one another all at each others throats Oh here they are all united and happy together because mama Stephanie has arrived and everyone is jumping for joy and hugging each other WWE touting Kayfabe is always going to be laughable...I always say there are IMO only 2 companies that know exactly what they are and keep their kayfabe consistent within the confines of their company..LU and NJPW. Hence why WWE needs to never run segments like those again. Any company can maintain a sense of kayfabe if they bother to put in some effort.
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Post by Bungle on May 17, 2018 5:12:42 GMT -5
Yes.
But a lot of wrestlers themselves believe kayfabe is dumb.Almost like they are embarrassed of being wrestlers.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on May 17, 2018 6:10:25 GMT -5
Yes. But a lot of wrestlers themselves believe kayfabe is dumb.Almost like they are embarrassed of being wrestlers. Because that's what they are told by and large by the public. Why did the heel visit the kids in hospital? Plenty of good kayfabe reasons why he would. It's part of his paid job, his character isn't 'That' mean etc. It doesn't have to mean he turns up in normal clothes, or when a kid asks him why he cheats to win he replies with "that's just a movie buddy" Same goes for the social media accounts. By and large, stay in character in them. There's a line I think, and honestly it seems a lot of the time "it's fake!! You can stop selling the leg injury now, the match is over" kind of view gets portrayed a lot. If taker doesn't always wear his hat while travelling, i used to tell my younger brother, it's hot and he can't pass through customs with it on etc. I never said lol he's an actor, James earl jones doesn't wear Darth Vader mask outside. Even though we both knew it, and would actually sometimes say that, i wouldn't expect it openly from the wrestlers themselves, It's just a respect towards the craft and the workers. While at the same time not sending death threats to lita just because she broke up with Matt. That's why people love worked shoots in the first place. There was real life animosity between bret and Shawn. It came out in their work and sold it better. Really, you could argue it's just pretend why were they upset, it's unprofessional in a working environment
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on May 17, 2018 13:13:32 GMT -5
That's why people love worked shoots in the first place. There was real life animosity between bret and Shawn. It came out in their work and sold it better. Really, you could argue it's just pretend why were they upset, it's unprofessional in a working environment But this ties to the same point: CM Punk ruined the worked shoot. Worked shoots only work because the company took some tidbit EVERYONE knew backstage, and used that in a storyline to enhance kayfabe. The casuals felt like they were in on some cool tidbit that would work backstage, and the hardcore fans felt like they were being thrown a bone. CM Punk's, on the other hand, went past just "worked shoot" and into an era where even if CM Punk "won" in kayfabe, he didn't really win [so what if CM Punk is prancing around with a pwetty title belt? He isn't in JOHN CENA'S SPOT, so he didn't achieve anything- he just got a big gaudy belt that'd make it hard for him to go through the airport.] By contrast, the Authority angle at least worked well there- it took the "Daniel Bryan is being underutilized" and made it a plot point in kayfabe, while also dialing CM Punk back to "If you are the WWE Champion, that fact alone means that you are the face of the WWE, simply because you are its champion."
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Post by Hit Girl on May 17, 2018 13:15:56 GMT -5
Worked shoots are lazy. Piss poor substitute for actual creative writing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 17:54:31 GMT -5
I don't think kayfabe needs to be abolished entirely but I think the kayfabe WWE presents on its main shows is archaic and is in desperate need of a revamp. The main roster should really be booked more like NXT. NXT has kayfabe, with storylines and clearly defined heels and faces, but there's no hokey shit like evil authority figures, supernatural powers, or long-lost family members, and the brand is all the better for it. Would Sami Zayn's quest for the NXT Title have been as compelling if he was out there cutting worked-shoot promos about not getting opportunities, or if William Regal had turned heel and put Zayn's career on the line?
Don't get rid of kayfabe, just tell simpler, more straightforward stories instead of trying to rehash shit that worked (or didn't work) 20 years ago.
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Post by eJm on May 17, 2018 19:01:57 GMT -5
I don't think kayfabe needs to be abolished entirely but I think the kayfabe WWE presents on its main shows is archaic and is in desperate need of a revamp. The main roster should really be booked more like NXT. NXT has kayfabe, with storylines and clearly defined heels and faces, but there's no hokey shit like evil authority figures, supernatural powers, or long-lost family members, and the brand is all the better for it. Would Sami Zayn's quest for the NXT Title have been as compelling if he was out there cutting worked-shoot promos about not getting opportunities, or if William Regal had turned heel and put Zayn's career on the line? Don't get rid of kayfabe, just tell simpler, more straightforward stories instead of trying to rehash shit that worked (or didn't work) 20 years ago. That’s how I see it too. The biggest problem with WWE for me is that stories aren’t really told in a straight forward manner because they need to progress stuff for months at a time and they then have stuff go in this manner that either makes it hard to follow or have interest wrecked from boredom to audiences. It’s more annoying when the twist in the plot happens 5 months later after several nothing angles and matches and we’re suddenly supposed to care all of a sudden.
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Matt
El Dandy
Posts: 8,708
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Post by Matt on May 18, 2018 11:18:41 GMT -5
I miss when it was a bigger thing.
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Post by 111111 on May 18, 2018 11:27:41 GMT -5
I find it hillarious when an interviewer asks a wrestler a non kayfabe question and they answer it in kayfabe.
I don't really see a problem with it though, it's no different to Sascha Baron Cohen doing an interview as "Ali G" or how the cast of the BBC show "people just do nothing" usually show up in character during interviews and appearances elsewhere, sometimes when the situation calls for it they do out of character interviews.
I think it's all down to the situation really, a wrestler in a local paper hyping up a house show keeping kayfabe is fine but say I dunno rolling stone do ab article on the business side of wrestling then a wrestler would look silly staying in character if they were interviewed for it.
My view has mellowed on it recently. I used to think kayfabe in interviews was dumb
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 1:45:10 GMT -5
I think we need to stop calling it "kayfabe" and no we don't need it. Wrestling should treat itself like any other show, just a show about a sport.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 19, 2018 1:49:25 GMT -5
I was done with WWE and Kayfabe once they pulled that womens royal rumble announcement. Oh here is all women who hate one another all at each others throats Oh here they are all united and happy together because mama Stephanie has arrived and everyone is jumping for joy and hugging each other WWE touting Kayfabe is always going to be laughable...I always say there are IMO only 2 companies that know exactly what they are and keep their kayfabe consistent within the confines of their company..LU and NJPW. I think the problem is that that isn't kayfabe failing, that's the show's writing being piss poor and them caring more about patting themselves on the back than about telling a good story. If you consider that kayfabe is everything outside of what happens on the scripted television show, that wasn't breaking kayfabe so much as it was just being really crap. I don't care if I see an Instagram photo of two guys hanging out when one's a heel and one's a face, but I do care about the show itself scripting the complete ruination of its own logic.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 19, 2018 1:52:12 GMT -5
I was done with WWE and Kayfabe once they pulled that womens royal rumble announcement. Oh here is all women who hate one another all at each others throats Oh here they are all united and happy together because mama Stephanie has arrived and everyone is jumping for joy and hugging each other WWE touting Kayfabe is always going to be laughable...I always say there are IMO only 2 companies that know exactly what they are and keep their kayfabe consistent within the confines of their company..LU and NJPW. I think the problem is that that isn't kayfabe failing, that's the show's writing being piss poor and them caring more about patting themselves on the back than about telling a good story. If you consider that kayfabe is everything outside of what happens on the scripted television show, that wasn't breaking kayfabe so much as it was just being really crap. I don't care if I see an Instagram photo of two guys hanging out when one's a heel and one's a face, but I do care about the show itself scripting the complete ruination of its own logic. Yeah, basically I don't care if Roman and Brock are shown at a bar drinking together. I do care about Roman on the shows talking about not being smartened up to the fact that Brock signed a new contract.
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Post by Bungle on May 19, 2018 1:59:38 GMT -5
Wrestlers are not actors.
Compare what Gargano does on social media to wrestlers using their real names and treating their job as a mildly joke.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 2:03:46 GMT -5
Wrestlers are not actors. Compare what Gargano does on social media to wrestlers using their real names and treating their job as a mildly joke. How, exactly, are they not? They perform for audiences in pre-scripted stories where they portray fantastical characters going through conflicts and resolutions, memorizing and delivering scripted dialogue and actions. I mean, what does an actor do that a wrestler does not do? Besides give their babies stupid f***ing names. Which Daniel Bryan is already catching everyone else up on.
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Post by eJm on May 19, 2018 4:40:51 GMT -5
Also where the hell do people get this idea of people treating their job like a joke?
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 19, 2018 4:53:16 GMT -5
I think there's still a lot of value in kayfabe. We don't need it to the extent they had in the old days where wrestlers were absolutely refusing to break character at any time but there is definitely a time and place for kayfabe. The thing is, kayfabe works so much better with coherent stories and as some others mentioned, that's not a strong suit in WWE. Look at the brand invasions where all but a few wrestlers completely ignored alignments, feuds and friendships because they put on a shirt that said Smackdown or Raw, despite the fact that a lot of them had recently been on the other show.
The best wrestlers are the ones who make you believe, who pull you into the fiction. Kayfabe is definitely worthwhile.
That said, I wonder if it would make sense to have wrestlers have two social media accounts. One for their 'persona' and one for the real person. One account fully kayfabe and the other not kayfabe. It'd be a bit more work for them but it might strike a nice balance?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 19, 2018 4:55:06 GMT -5
Also where the hell do people get this idea of people treating their job like a joke? We have to stop projecting our own feelings onto the talents as though they feel the exact same way. Just because one may be disillusioned and miserable about how a talent is booked doesn’t mean they are too.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 19, 2018 4:58:20 GMT -5
Look at the brand invasions where all but a few wrestlers completely ignored alignments, feuds and friendships because they put on a shirt that said Smackdown or Raw, despite the fact that a lot of them had recently been on the other show. Well, that’s because those shirts are corruptive, mindwashing tools of evil forged by Satan himself. I’ve been saying this for years.
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