schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 19, 2018 5:04:26 GMT -5
Look at the brand invasions where all but a few wrestlers completely ignored alignments, feuds and friendships because they put on a shirt that said Smackdown or Raw, despite the fact that a lot of them had recently been on the other show. Well, that’s because those shirts are corruptive, mindwashing tools of evil forged by Satan himself. I’ve been saying this for years. I wonder if he made Sami's hats as well? I think Becky would agree it's likely. |
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Post by Bungle on May 19, 2018 5:26:39 GMT -5
Wrestlers are not actors. Compare what Gargano does on social media to wrestlers using their real names and treating their job as a mildly joke. How, exactly, are they not? They perform for audiences in pre-scripted stories where they portray fantastical characters going through conflicts and resolutions, memorizing and delivering scripted dialogue and actions. I mean, what does an actor do that a wrestler does not do? Besides give their babies stupid f***ing names. Which Daniel Bryan is already catching everyone else up on. Just because acting is involved,doesn't mean they are just actors. Who cares about Rebecca Quin or Lina Fanene or whatever their real names are making jokes about if they are pushed or not? If you are a wrestler and can't do something to at least maintain some MINIMUM kayfabe,then you're doing it wrong. |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 19, 2018 6:41:57 GMT -5
By contrast, the Authority angle at least worked well there- it took the "Daniel Bryan is being underutilized" and made it a plot point in kayfabe, while also dialing CM Punk back to "If you are the WWE Champion, that fact alone means that you are the face of the WWE, simply because you are its champion."And really, that's how all wrestling promotions should treat their world titles. |
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Post by xCompackx on May 19, 2018 6:51:03 GMT -5
Personally, I'm fine with the fiction ending as the show does. I just don't find the constant desire to "work" people very entertaining, especially when WWE themselves don't care much about exposing stuff.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 19, 2018 7:46:53 GMT -5
you mean do wrestlers need to keep in character at all times anymore? absolutely f***ing not. it'd be like getting mad at Steven Amell for not being Green Arrow in real life.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 8:02:57 GMT -5
Yes. It just irritates me when I see someone like the Miz on the show playing an asshole heel you want to get his ass kicked, then during the segment they will show a commercial for some charity and Miz is there helping a bunch of people build a house.
Stuff like that bugs me. I want to get lost in the moment. Save that crap for other shows I don't watch.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 19, 2018 8:12:06 GMT -5
How, exactly, are they not? They perform for audiences in pre-scripted stories where they portray fantastical characters going through conflicts and resolutions, memorizing and delivering scripted dialogue and actions. I mean, what does an actor do that a wrestler does not do? Besides give their babies stupid f***ing names. Which Daniel Bryan is already catching everyone else up on. Just because acting is involved,doesn't mean they are just actors. Who cares about Rebecca Quin or Lina Fanene or whatever their real names are making jokes about if they are pushed or not? If you are a wrestler and can't do something to at least maintain some MINIMUM kayfabe,then you're doing it wrong. But like. Why? It's such a tautological idea. "Wrestlers aren't like actors because they should be upholding kayfabe, and they should uphold kayfabe because wrestling isn't like acting". Also, Becky Lynch has her real name on her profile reportedly because of acting guild requirements due to some previous stunt work she did; same reason Lana in a WWE Studios movie was billed under CJ Perry instead of her kayfabe name. |
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,657
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Post by thecrusherwi on May 19, 2018 8:29:27 GMT -5
Just because acting is involved,doesn't mean they are just actors. Who cares about Rebecca Quin or Lina Fanene or whatever their real names are making jokes about if they are pushed or not? If you are a wrestler and can't do something to at least maintain some MINIMUM kayfabe,then you're doing it wrong. But like. Why? It's such a tautological idea. "Wrestlers aren't like actors because they should be upholding kayfabe, and they should uphold kayfabe because wrestling isn't like acting". Also, Becky Lynch has her real name on her profile reportedly because of acting guild requirements due to some previous stunt work she did; same reason Lana in a WWE Studios movie was billed under CJ Perry instead of her kayfabe name. Well the massive difference between wrestlers and actors is most wrestlers play one character for their entire careers and they never are more than one character at the same time. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 19, 2018 8:35:38 GMT -5
But like. Why? It's such a tautological idea. "Wrestlers aren't like actors because they should be upholding kayfabe, and they should uphold kayfabe because wrestling isn't like acting". Also, Becky Lynch has her real name on her profile reportedly because of acting guild requirements due to some previous stunt work she did; same reason Lana in a WWE Studios movie was billed under CJ Perry instead of her kayfabe name. Well the massive difference between wrestlers and actors is most wrestlers play one character for their entire careers and they never are more than one character at the same time. Some actors have like one role of note and nothing else ever. Some actors play a single character for years and don't do any other parts in anything else. That's not a fundamental core element of a wrestler's job that explains why they need to give worked answers to reporters and can't have their real names as their twitters. |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,604
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Post by cjh on May 19, 2018 9:12:14 GMT -5
Just because acting is involved,doesn't mean they are just actors. Who cares about Rebecca Quin or Lina Fanene or whatever their real names are making jokes about if they are pushed or not? If you are a wrestler and can't do something to at least maintain some MINIMUM kayfabe,then you're doing it wrong. But like. Why? It's such a tautological idea. "Wrestlers aren't like actors because they should be upholding kayfabe, and they should uphold kayfabe because wrestling isn't like acting". Also, Becky Lynch has her real name on her profile reportedly because of acting guild requirements due to some previous stunt work she did; same reason Lana in a WWE Studios movie was billed under CJ Perry instead of her kayfabe name. Wrestling is just seen as different from traditional acting. I don't really have the words to explain it, but Robocop saving Sting from the Horsemen is just something fans and and non-fans alike will see as stupid even when they have no problem with a Robocop movie. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 19, 2018 9:18:52 GMT -5
But like. Why? It's such a tautological idea. "Wrestlers aren't like actors because they should be upholding kayfabe, and they should uphold kayfabe because wrestling isn't like acting". Also, Becky Lynch has her real name on her profile reportedly because of acting guild requirements due to some previous stunt work she did; same reason Lana in a WWE Studios movie was billed under CJ Perry instead of her kayfabe name. Wrestling is just seen as different from traditional acting. I don't really have the words to explain it, but Robocop saving Sting from the Horsemen is just something fans and and non-fans alike will see as stupid even when they have no problem with a Robocop movie. I'm not saying it's not different from the normal life of an actor. I'm saying that "it's different" isn't really a justification when the difference can't be explained and the defenses hinge on "because it's not the same". Stage acting isn't the same as film acting but they're both still acting. "Seen as" isn't really the same as "substantively is". |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on May 19, 2018 10:02:28 GMT -5
Wrestling is just seen as different from traditional acting. I don't really have the words to explain it, but Robocop saving Sting from the Horsemen is just something fans and and non-fans alike will see as stupid even when they have no problem with a Robocop movie. I'm not saying it's not different from the normal life of an actor. I'm saying that "it's different" isn't really a justification when the difference can't be explained and the defenses hinge on "because it's not the same". Stage acting isn't the same as film acting but they're both still acting. "Seen as" isn't really the same as "substantively is". If that's how people see it, though, that's what matters. There's no reason to voluntarily break kayfabe in public and talk about how great your TV rival is when it just annoys wrestling fans and can easily be avoided. You don't have to pretend it's an actual shoot fight that someone is actually going to win, but people are willing to be believe that two wrestlers don't like each other. Plus, there are benefits to keeping the act in public that don't exist for actors. Boxing and MMA cards always get more attention when people believe the fighters involved hate each other, even though they probably don't. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 19, 2018 10:08:28 GMT -5
There's no reason to voluntarily break kayfabe in public and talk about how great your TV rival is when it just annoys wrestling fans and can easily be avoided. but does it really annoy wrestling fans? I haven't seen a massive outcry of people angry that a wrestler has done that. |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on May 19, 2018 10:17:30 GMT -5
There's no reason to voluntarily break kayfabe in public and talk about how great your TV rival is when it just annoys wrestling fans and can easily be avoided. but does it really annoy wrestling fans? I haven't seen a massive outcry of people angry that a wrestler has done that. There definitely seems to be more of them than fans who don't like wrestlers keeping kayfabe off TV. Nia Jax pretends on Twitter that she is no longer friends with Alexa Bliss, and the reaction to it seems more positive than negative. I think there would be quite a bit of complaining if she was doing the opposite. |
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Post by eJm on May 19, 2018 12:29:55 GMT -5
but does it really annoy wrestling fans? I haven't seen a massive outcry of people angry that a wrestler has done that. There definitely seems to be more of them than fans who don't like wrestlers keeping kayfabe off TV. Nia Jax pretends on Twitter that she is no longer friends with Alexa Bliss, and the reaction to it seems more positive than negative. I think there would be quite a bit of complaining if she was doing the opposite. Eh. Nia Jax the character can fall out with Alexa Bliss the character in the same way Stephen Amell and Cody Rhodes can hang out with each other even though they were foes in Arrow. If they act friendly on TV during the time they don’t like each other, that’s another issue. |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on May 19, 2018 12:43:31 GMT -5
There definitely seems to be more of them than fans who don't like wrestlers keeping kayfabe off TV. Nia Jax pretends on Twitter that she is no longer friends with Alexa Bliss, and the reaction to it seems more positive than negative. I think there would be quite a bit of complaining if she was doing the opposite. Eh. Nia Jax the character can fall out with Alexa Bliss the character in the same way Stephen Amell and Cody Rhodes can hang out with each other even though they were foes in Arrow. If they act friendly on TV during the time they don’t like each other, that’s another issue. I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about Amell and Cody being friendly on a wrestling show even though they were foes on Arrow? That would be fine because a wrestling show probably would never treat Arrow as real. My point was Nia and Alexa being friendly on Twitter right now while they don't like each other on TV wouldn't be accepted like it would be if they were regular actresses. If they were actresses in TV and movies, no one would mind them being completely out of character on Twitter and in appearances. As wrestlers, if they just completely break character publicly on social media or wherever, there would be a fairly strong "oh, come on, don't do that" reaction. |
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Post by eJm on May 19, 2018 13:07:28 GMT -5
Eh. Nia Jax the character can fall out with Alexa Bliss the character in the same way Stephen Amell and Cody Rhodes can hang out with each other even though they were foes in Arrow. If they act friendly on TV during the time they don’t like each other, that’s another issue. I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about Amell and Cody being friendly on a wrestling show even though they were foes on Arrow? That would be fine because a wrestling show probably would never treat Arrow as real. My point was Nia and Alexa being friendly on Twitter right now while they don't like each other on TV wouldn't be accepted like it would be if they were regular actresses. If they were actresses in TV and movies, no one would mind them being completely out of character on Twitter and in appearances. As wrestlers, if they just completely break character publicly on social media or wherever, there would be a fairly strong "oh, come on, don't do that" reaction. But I'm struggling to see the difference between the two. They're all characters on a TV show, just different forms of characters. I mean, Nia was a heel and was talking about body issues at one point, is that breaking kayfabe because she isn't supposed to inspire people? New Day and Carmella were friends even though one set were faces and or one was a heel and this was all on a WWE show, is that breaking kayfabe? Honestly, I want people to have more appreciation for the workers and the amount of time and passion they put in to put on a show every week. If the death of people living their lives as characters outside the show 24/7 is needed to do that, so be it. It's not like many people outside the fanbase do right now because of past stuff. |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on May 19, 2018 13:20:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about Amell and Cody being friendly on a wrestling show even though they were foes on Arrow? That would be fine because a wrestling show probably would never treat Arrow as real. My point was Nia and Alexa being friendly on Twitter right now while they don't like each other on TV wouldn't be accepted like it would be if they were regular actresses. If they were actresses in TV and movies, no one would mind them being completely out of character on Twitter and in appearances. As wrestlers, if they just completely break character publicly on social media or wherever, there would be a fairly strong "oh, come on, don't do that" reaction. But I'm struggling to see the difference between the two. They're all characters on a TV show, just different forms of characters. I mean, Nia was a heel and was talking about body issues at one point, is that breaking kayfabe because she isn't supposed to inspire people? New Day and Carmella were friends even though one set were faces and or one was a heel and this was all on a WWE show, is that breaking kayfabe? Honestly, I want people to have more appreciation for the workers and the amount of time and passion they put in to put on a show every week. If the death of people living their lives outside the show is needed to do that, so be it. It's not like many people outside the fanbase do right now because of past stuff. I'm talking more along the lines of writing a storyline, then having the wrestlers involved directly contradict it when not on the show. If WWE wants to have a storyline where a heel and a babyface are able to get along, that's fine. And, yeah, I think what they have Nia Jax say works better now that she's a face. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have a heel say things that make it harder to boo them. |
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on May 19, 2018 13:46:58 GMT -5
Kayfabe isn't the problem, consistent episodic storytelling is. If actual story and character development were consistent or even just good, there'd be less problems suspending disbelief.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 14:10:47 GMT -5
To me it is dead. Wrestling may as well go in a full Woken Universe/Lucha Underground direction. Not necessarily have as over the top storylines. But present it more like a movie and less like a simulated sport.
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