r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,458
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Post by r. on May 22, 2018 19:25:29 GMT -5
I can see where the argument lies but I see as no different than when SNL has a male actor do drag for a bit.
This is a company that has done; Necrophilia, testicle electrocution, actual burials, incest, a live sex celebration, an angle involving god, a tasteless trans gimmick with mark henry, ridiculing little people, black face, Vince saying the N-word, and an abortion angle just to name a few.
The time to be done and offended with pro wrestling past by a very long time ago.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on May 22, 2018 23:02:57 GMT -5
I haven't seen this, so I gotta ask, is this one of the worst segments ever? Like top 5 worst ever? I'm talking Dr Heiny, bark like a dog, Katie Vick, and ultimate Warrior's wcw promo level of awfulness. On its own? No. In today's Social Climate? It could be, if you're inclined to take that into account. Even beyond the social climate- it goes past that to remember the same thing. All of the "bad promos/bad segments" you can think of in wrestling history- no matter how bad they were, there was usually at least a CHANCE they could have been good. If the writing was better. If the performer was better at doing it. If they didn't make one problem that derailed it. If SOMETHING was done to change it. But say what you will- Sami Zayn tried killing himself to make the segment work. Bobby Lashley at least tried to turn this into "yeah, I know how absurd this is so I'm at least going to try to make this 'so bad it's funny'. It didn't work. The whole thing was broken to the core. Only Katie Vick can counter it for sheer "the very premise of this angle was so bad it was impossible to save it, and no matter how good the performers were, this was STILL going to be the worst segment of the year".
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Doctor Of Style
King Koopa
Well, first they love me, and then they don't. Sometimes they do it, and sometimes they won't.
Posts: 12,104
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Post by Doctor Of Style on May 23, 2018 0:29:01 GMT -5
I can see where the argument lies but I see as no different than when SNL has a male actor do drag for a bit. This is a company that has done; Necrophilia, testicle electrocution, actual burials, incest, a live sex celebration, an angle involving god, a tasteless trans gimmick with mark henry, ridiculing little people, black face, Vince saying the N-word, and an abortion angle just to name a few. The time to be done and offended with pro wrestling past by a very long time ago. It's like Will Farrell doing Janet Reno. Seems more goofy and dumb than demeaning to me.
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Post by willywonka666 on May 23, 2018 6:11:13 GMT -5
I don't think everyone was bent out of shape when "Cloudy" was around-we just thought it was stupid.'
I didn't watch the segment, but It sounded ridiculous to me, but in 2018, there's not much anyone can do anymore without it being dissected.
I don't think if I was transgender I'd consider it an attack on me, again, it'd just be stupid.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,428
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Post by FinalGwen on May 23, 2018 6:22:48 GMT -5
I don't think everyone was bent out of shape when "Cloudy" was around-we just thought it was stupid.' I didn't watch the segment, but It sounded ridiculous to me, but in 2018, there's not much anyone can do anymore without it being dissected. I don't think if I was transgender I'd consider it an attack on me, again, it'd just be stupid. It's not so much that everything is dissected now, it's more just that the people in the firing lines of this kind of (if everyone will excuse the word) 'comedy' has more of a voice now, and one that isn't automatically dismissed. That we can point to countless examples over the years of WWE doing similarly horrible things is more of a point of continued, unpleasant context than absolving them. And yes, this was more stupid than anything, but I do think it's a reflection of WWE's general presentation of trans people as either funny men in drag or creepy/predatory men in drag, and that's not something that should be ignored. That they keep it up nowadays shows how tone deaf they are, but that's hardly news. Probably the only sign of progress is that they didn't use white men in blackface as well as drag.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 23, 2018 6:45:44 GMT -5
I mean, people brought up it being kind of low-key transphobic like twice in the span of the first four pages as one of the things that was shitty in it but also not really its main crime. I'm not sure 'dissected' is the right word to take it, the conversation really only turned to it more actively when more people chimed in to say "No that's dumb stop being sensitive" than had even given it an offhand mention in the first place. There's no "WWE makes horrifically transphobic segment and social media is on fire" outrage here. It was just sprinkles on a shit sundae and it's not really been seen as anything more.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 7:05:36 GMT -5
I dunno, if the segment was really trans-phobic we would have heard something from Snickers.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,089
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 23, 2018 7:08:50 GMT -5
I dunno, if the segment was really trans-phobic we would have heard something from Snickers. And Sami likely would have refused to go through with it if he thought it was. Hasn't he even come out and said that one of his celebrity (for a certain value of celebrity, since I think ultimately they might be less famous than Sami is, but still) crushes is trans?
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Post by 111111 on May 23, 2018 9:05:29 GMT -5
I mean, people brought up it being kind of low-key transphobic like twice in the span of the first four pages as one of the things that was shitty in it but also not really its main crime.. The original poster literally said they were that offended by it they were nearly crying
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on May 23, 2018 9:12:52 GMT -5
I mean, people brought up it being kind of low-key transphobic like twice in the span of the first four pages as one of the things that was shitty in it but also not really its main crime.. The original poster literally said they were that offended by it they were nearly crying That's not what JDogindy said at all and he even confirmed as much earlier in this thread. He mentioned transphobia offhand as one of its failings in the first post, then in another post said he almost cried because the segment was bad, not because it offended him.
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Post by Cyno on May 23, 2018 11:57:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the segment was overtly transphobic or homophobic. I think the set up was supposed to be Sami bringing out these three obvious dudes in drag in an attempt to piss off Lashley enough, thinking he was insulting his beloved sisters, that it'd bring him out and set him up for a 4-on-1 ambush.
The buzzword these days is "problematic" and I think it's an accurate descriptor. Now there are a lot of things I enjoy that have problematic elements, and that's fine. There is plenty of room for nuance and if I avoided any and all problematic media, I'd be able to enjoy very few things. The segment being as bad as it was just makes the problematic stuff stand out more.
The biggest problem with that segment first and foremost was the segment was horrendously bad and boring and lacking in any entertainment value.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on May 23, 2018 13:27:34 GMT -5
WWE writers: . . . And that's the segment.
Vince: I don't know..don't you think it comes off sort-of shallow?
WWE Writers: No. trust us, Vince. Forums are gonna go like 10 pages discussing this.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on May 23, 2018 13:58:11 GMT -5
Am I the only one mad we seemingly aren't getting a creepy psycho Lashley that the original interview segment seemed to be hinting at?
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Post by Cyno on May 23, 2018 14:26:55 GMT -5
I wanted creepy psycho Lashley, too. They're squandering him so badly I want him to go back to TNA because he was money there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 15:06:14 GMT -5
Am I the only one mad we seemingly aren't getting a creepy psycho Lashley that the original interview segment seemed to be hinting at? It could be that his character is more subtle in that he either doesn't actually have sisters or he actually believed the women he beat up were his sisters.
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