Dang!
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Post by Dang! on Jul 14, 2019 13:50:18 GMT -5
That fan legit tried to fight Jericho, haha. I'm not sure whether he's a plant or not. It's the same guy that Sabian kissed.
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Post by eJm on Jul 14, 2019 13:52:31 GMT -5
Ok, Page/Sabian wasn’t my favorite match ever... But one of the worst of the year? No disrespect intended but are people f***ing serious? i guess the hype around AEW is so great every opinion has to be taken to the extreme end. the way people are talking about it on here, you'd think it was a Hogan/Warrior Halloween Havoc or Jackie Gayda level botchfest instead of just a mediocre match that had a foregone conclusion (which always affects how invested fans get into the match) It didn’t click. That’s all it did. It’s not something either man can’t rebound from or anything like that. It’s honestly the sort of match that might have had a chance in a different spot on the card but again, it’s not a blemish that deserves the title of one of the worst matches. Like, Nakazawa/Jebailey was f***ing bad and I’d put that in there but at least that has merit on the fact the CEO crowd were literally into everything in that match which honestly levitated it (an inch, barely anything but it did!).
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 14, 2019 14:05:03 GMT -5
i guess the hype around AEW is so great every opinion has to be taken to the extreme end. the way people are talking about it on here, you'd think it was a Hogan/Warrior Halloween Havoc or Jackie Gayda level botchfest instead of just a mediocre match that had a foregone conclusion (which always affects how invested fans get into the match) It didn’t click. That’s all it did. It’s not something either man can’t rebound from or anything like that. It’s honestly the sort of match that might have had a chance in a different spot on the card but again, it’s not a blemish that deserves the title of one of the worst matches. Like, Nakazawa/Jebailey was f***ing bad and I’d put that in there but at least that has merit on the fact the CEO crowd were literally into everything in that match which honestly levitated it (an inch, barely anything but it did!). Different strokes, really. I got more out of Jebailey/Nakazawa, largely since it was a novelty. Page/Kip, dunno if I'd personally put it on any worst of lists, but it was just so long, and came right after Dark Order put a sour taste in the crowd's mouths. Crowd reaction does really play a part in folks' enjoyment of matches often, so having them checked out for most of the match didn't do anyone any favors. You also had Kip going in with no real stakes, and Page should have really been more dominant with that in mind. It was possibly the worst booking mistake AEW has made so far. That being said, I don't picture it sticking with me too much. By after All Out, I just don't see myself talking about the match again.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 14, 2019 14:22:43 GMT -5
It didn’t click. That’s all it did. It’s not something either man can’t rebound from or anything like that. It’s honestly the sort of match that might have had a chance in a different spot on the card but again, it’s not a blemish that deserves the title of one of the worst matches. Like, Nakazawa/Jebailey was f***ing bad and I’d put that in there but at least that has merit on the fact the CEO crowd were literally into everything in that match which honestly levitated it (an inch, barely anything but it did!). Different strokes, really. I got more out of Jebailey/Nakazawa, largely since it was a novelty. Page/Kip, dunno if I'd personally put it on any worst of lists, but it was just so long, and came right after Dark Order put a sour taste in the crowd's mouths. Crowd reaction does really play a part in folks' enjoyment of matches often, so having them checked out for most of the match didn't do anyone any favors. You also had Kip going in with no real stakes, and Page should have really been more dominant with that in mind. It was possibly the worst booking mistake AEW has made so far. That being said, I don't picture it sticking with me too much. By after All Out, I just don't see myself talking about the match again. Plus if that match was like..a random TNT show match it would be bad but people would be over it pretty quickly. But this match would pretty much make it or kill it for Page at All Out,that is the issue.Page HAD to absolutely kill it and he went into the opposite direction.
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Post by eJm on Jul 14, 2019 14:29:48 GMT -5
It didn’t click. That’s all it did. It’s not something either man can’t rebound from or anything like that. It’s honestly the sort of match that might have had a chance in a different spot on the card but again, it’s not a blemish that deserves the title of one of the worst matches. Like, Nakazawa/Jebailey was f***ing bad and I’d put that in there but at least that has merit on the fact the CEO crowd were literally into everything in that match which honestly levitated it (an inch, barely anything but it did!). Different strokes, really. I got more out of Jebailey/Nakazawa, largely since it was a novelty. Page/Kip, dunno if I'd personally put it on any worst of lists, but it was just so long, and came right after Dark Order put a sour taste in the crowd's mouths. Crowd reaction does really play a part in folks' enjoyment of matches often, so having them checked out for most of the match didn't do anyone any favors. You also had Kip going in with no real stakes, and Page should have really been more dominant with that in mind. It was possibly the worst booking mistake AEW has made so far. That being said, I don't picture it sticking with me too much. By after All Out, I just don't see myself talking about the match again. Oh, the match was a guilty pleasure for me because the crowd made it. Like I said, I can agree with everyone’s points, just not the damn hyperbole.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 14, 2019 15:28:22 GMT -5
Pretty good show, but I think the parts people didn't like are indicators that they really do need weekly TV to get started as soon as possible. Weekly stuff on BTE and the Road to... shows can only provide so much.
Feel awful for Baker, that women's tag had a ton going for it otherwise, but if she got concussed like that then nobody can blame her for things not going well for her. Hope she heals up well.
The Librarians' act worked better here, to be sure, and it seems clear that the story they're going with is that they're trying to cheat to help one another win, but they just can't seem to do it right.
The six-man was a picture perfect example of how multi-man matches like that should be used: further stories, develop potential feuds, show where people's characters are at a given point in time, etc. Felt appropriate since it's G1 season and the preliminary matches that go before the block matches are at their best when they work like that, too. Keep that going once TV starts and the show will be a success.
Agreed that Brandi/Allie was just ok, but also agreed that the potential for a Battle of the Kongs made it worthwhile.
The three-team tag was pretty good, but yeah, it was definitely a showcase for Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy more than anything else, at a time when the Dark Order kind of needs a showcase of its own so that fans can understand what their gimmick's going for. Like I said in the thread about them I really don't thin they did badly in the match, but they were definitely hurt by not being established yet and the fans not knowing what their deal is, and a 3-team dance based around hitting moves quick as can be isn't the place to get those ideas across.
I wasn't super bothered by Page/Sabian while it was on (if commentary was annoying during it, as some have intimated, I admit I probably just wasn't paying enough attention to it), but I'm fully on board with the feeling that I have no idea what they were going for. Sabian is nowhere near established enough to be taking your #1 contender to the limit, Page is more of a brawler so the match style didn't play to his strengths, and the lack of a real conflict or story at play hurt it. AEW's done a solid job so far trying to ensure that each match has some level of stakes to it, but this match notably lacked them and suffered for it. Not the end of the world, but like with Dark Order they do need to get to focusing on Page's motivations and his character going into All Out, it's like they took it for granted that people know who he is since he's part of the Elite, but as the younger member of the squad he's got less of an established personality than the other guys do.
Lucha Bros/SCU was solid by and large, and if we do get to the fall and have Pentagon and Fenix available for AEW something close to full-time they'll be over like rover. Penta and Kenny at least teased reigniting a rivalry based on their All In match, hope they keep that in their back pocket for a little bit and build it up nice.
As for Kenny/CIMA, yeah, really enjoyed it to be sure. Even the Meteora spots didn't feel too much to me, but that's kind of because I've accepted the psychology that if a finisher is hit in a variation style than it doesn't count as hitting it flush (e.g. Okada needing the full ripcord for it to be a match-ending Rainmaker), so I'll just say CIMA springboarding to hit Meteora meant it wasn't hit as square as it is when he hits it from the turnbuckle.
Main event got slow at some point but didn't drag, and I appreciated what it was going for, I dig when the Bucks decide they want to go a bit more old school.
Will say, I know they brought it up a lot on the broadcast, but I think it being 85 degrees and humid as shit was very noticeable at times. You could see some spots that are usually smooth as silk looking kind of tired, some wrestlers looking a little drained after a time, that kind of thing. Didn't ruin the show and most of the action was still strong, but there were times when you could almost feel how sticky it must've been out there.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 14, 2019 15:29:08 GMT -5
It objectively wasn't a Meltzer 5-star classic at the Tokyo Dome, but I thought the Nakazawa vs Jebailey match was really entertaining. Though I admit I'm in the target audience for that match (fighting game fan) and if you're someone outside that niche, a lot of the references and cameos to make the FGC pop are going to be headscratchers for everyone else.
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Post by eJm on Jul 14, 2019 15:36:41 GMT -5
It objectively wasn't a Meltzer 5-star classic at the Tokyo Dome, but I thought the Nakazawa vs Jebailey match was really entertaining. Though I admit I'm in the target audience for that match (fighting game fan) and if you're someone outside that niche, a lot of the references and cameos to make the FGC pop are going to be headscratchers for everyone else. That was the thing I honestly loved the most out of it. It felt designed for that audience and they ate every bit of it up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 15:47:47 GMT -5
The Page match was lame, though I think if you have the same match but switch out Sabian for someone more established it would've been received better. That's not a knock on Sabian; he seemed pretty good. But who is he? What's his story? Why is he taking the #1 contender to the limit? Do we want him to win?
AEW has a bit of an issue with assuming we're all in the know about these guys, and commentary has been hit-or-miss when it comes to providing good background info.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 14, 2019 16:25:04 GMT -5
There have been other guys that AEW's built up better than Sabian that might've made a better opponent for Page. Seemed like AEW tried to kill two birds with one stone by using the match to build up Page and Sabian at the same time, only it didn't work. Problem is that a lot of the other better heels were already booked and Moxley either wasn't available or you didn't want to feed him to Page that quickly.
I was leaning towards Jericho being the inaugural champion, but I think he's the only real choice now since Page being the first champ will give off hotshot vibes and it could quickly get ugly unless they reverse course with his build and the matches they put him in. I also think it's better to have faces initially chase for the title. Jericho's list of potential opponents as champion is also, right now, a lot more impressive than Page's if only because there's currently more credible faces for the main event scene than heels, with Moxley potentially working either way.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 14, 2019 16:26:08 GMT -5
The Page match was lame, though I think if you have the same match but switch out Sabian for someone more established it would've been received better. That's not a knock on Sabian; he seemed pretty good. But who is he? What's his story? Why is he taking the #1 contender to the limit? Do we want him to win? AEW has a bit of an issue with assuming we're all in the know about these guys, and commentary has been hit-or-miss when it comes to providing good background info. Yeah, like, Page has some issues coming across, anyway, but Kip just highlighted it. If it was MJF in there with Page, so much of this would have been different, for example. You'd have an established personality and someone who could bring the heat.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 14, 2019 16:54:58 GMT -5
Honestly they need to just get Page away from the title picture and build to a feud with MJF. Introduce a secondary title and let those guys feud over it, since that is about what they are worth at this point. But that Page/Sabian match last night was an all time booking fail if you ask me. The idea that you'd book a dubiously over #1 contender to go 50/50 with an opening match jobber guy for nearly 20 minutes is baffling. How did this get greenlit? It's like they think Page is some mega over dude here when in reality he was the guy whose Bullet Club shirt was the lowest on the list at Hot Topic if you checked the online listings.
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Post by Deputy Muscle on Jul 14, 2019 17:00:21 GMT -5
The Page match was lame, though I think if you have the same match but switch out Sabian for someone more established it would've been received better. That's not a knock on Sabian; he seemed pretty good. But who is he? What's his story? Why is he taking the #1 contender to the limit? Do we want him to win? AEW has a bit of an issue with assuming we're all in the know about these guys, and commentary has been hit-or-miss when it comes to providing good background info. Is this not a case of AEW trying to establish that they don't have jobbers? Are they trying to build up that anyone can beat anyone on a given day? Personally I'd prefer the competitiveness and the feeling that anyone can get a win. If they need a jobbers, use some local talent to do the job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 18:26:12 GMT -5
The Page match was lame, though I think if you have the same match but switch out Sabian for someone more established it would've been received better. That's not a knock on Sabian; he seemed pretty good. But who is he? What's his story? Why is he taking the #1 contender to the limit? Do we want him to win? AEW has a bit of an issue with assuming we're all in the know about these guys, and commentary has been hit-or-miss when it comes to providing good background info. Is this not a case of AEW trying to establish that they don't have jobbers? Are they trying to build up that anyone can beat anyone on a given day? Personally I'd prefer the competitiveness and the feeling that anyone can get a win. If they need a jobbers, use some local talent to do the job. Losing doesn't = jobbing though, and looking competitive and strong in defeat isn't a story that you need twenty minutes to tell. Putting Page against a non-descript--to the unitiated, anyway--guy like Sabian for that long was a risk that didn't work out and it kind of damaged Page (who I'm not all that high on anyway, to be honest), at least in the short-term.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jul 14, 2019 19:11:03 GMT -5
Apparently the set and design was inspired by South Park
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 14, 2019 20:15:33 GMT -5
Honestly the Kio/Page match probably would have been better received if they built Kip up a bit more. I dont think the match was bad but between his promo and the match I came out thinking Kip was better than given credit for when I feel like they wanted it to be a showcase for Page
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 21:25:41 GMT -5
Watched it today and enjoyed it. I definitely think that their other shows were stronger overall. However, this was still very enjoyable and an easy watch.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jul 14, 2019 21:29:43 GMT -5
Which I can agree with. You could argue they wanted a Cody/Allin moment but there were big parts that didn’t make it work. But one of the worst of the year? That’s utter nonsense. It was *19 minutes* of pure nothingness that made both guys look worse in every way, including a guy that AEW's positioned to be their homegrown guy. If that wasn't one of the worst matches to happen this year then this must be a pretty awful year for wrestling. Let's move on, guys. Back and forth on this is pointless and useless.
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Chuck Conry
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Post by Chuck Conry on Jul 15, 2019 1:29:36 GMT -5
Where is Penolope Ford?
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jul 15, 2019 1:58:38 GMT -5
That's a really good question, actually. She wasn't in Janela's corner for FyterFest or Fight for the Fallen, and they haven't used her in the Women's Division either. Her one moment is screaming in terror when Luchasauras Chokeslammed Janela through the table, and that just seems like it was forever ago.
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