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Post by Cyno on Jul 5, 2019 14:42:30 GMT -5
I still don’t get the line of thinking that every single wrestler needs to be explained. Like, how were they supposed to give a proper backstory to every person in a battle royal on a one hour long preshow? Has that ever even been a thing? My only real gripe so far is that there’s a little too much Brandi for my liking. I don't get the commentator wearing a mask hangups. Did they wonder why Ventura or Lawler wore their wrestling gimmicks at the commentary booth... Its also not like luchadors or masked wrestlers in general are some bizzare unheard of thing. Hey now, crowns, gaudy jackets, and feather boas are one thing. But masks cross the line!
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salz4life
Grimlock
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Posts: 13,947
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Post by salz4life on Jul 5, 2019 15:03:16 GMT -5
The only thing I'm not really liking so far is The Librarian gimmick. It might be working for others, but I just don't like it. I'm just one person though.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 5, 2019 15:04:00 GMT -5
I'm still legit surprised anyone's even especially noticing Excalibur's mask. Wrestlers wear masks to protect their identities, it's like, one of the things people know about wrestlers even if they're not fans. I bet you didn't think it was weird when El Santo wore a mask when he fought dracula and Martians and shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 15:18:37 GMT -5
I'm still legit surprised anyone's even especially noticing Excalibur's mask. Wrestlers wear masks to protect their identities, it's like, one of the things people know about wrestlers even if they're not fans. I bet you didn't think it was weird when El Santo wore a mask when he fought dracula and Martians and shit. Every time El Santo appeared on camera during a wrestling show or in a movie, they needed to explain why he was wearing the mask to the audience, otherwise it would have come across as "low rent," "indie," and "confusing!"
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jul 5, 2019 15:29:21 GMT -5
I don’t mind a masked commentator, but the mask itself bothers me.
It’s like it’s cut too low above the lip so it looks like it doesn’t quite fit.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jul 5, 2019 15:30:21 GMT -5
Also, those older 90s and 80s wrestlers who did it in character, were in full gear and the color commentators.
Excalibur as the main guy in just a mask but with a suit is funny.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 15:40:52 GMT -5
I still don’t get the line of thinking that every single wrestler needs to be explained. Like, how were they supposed to give a proper backstory to every person in a battle royal on a one hour long preshow? Has that ever even been a thing? My only real gripe so far is that there’s a little too much Brandi for my liking. I don't get the commentator wearing a mask hangups. Did they wonder why Ventura or Lawler wore their wrestling gimmicks at the commentary booth... Its also not like luchadors or masked wrestlers in general are some bizzare unheard of thing. Especially when you consider that he’s only on screen for maybe a minute or two during the whole show. I’d understand it if he was talking in some distracting accent or something that took away from the show.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 5, 2019 15:45:39 GMT -5
A couple weeks ago someone put on Double or Nothing at a 'hang around, watch stuff, grill some burgers' sort of party and half the room were non-fans. I decided to ask them about the mask thing and if it confused them or if they wanted some kind of explanation, and of the four people the responses I got were: -"It's wrestling, I thought people do that." -"I didn't even think about it." -"I figured he was a retired wrestler" twice.
When I say non-fans I mean people who don't watch any wrestling at all and at most have internet osmosis knowledge or have just heard those of us who are wrestling fans talk about it enough to pick up a couple basics and thoughts. They didn't need it explained to them, they just saw what was there and if they noticed it, they made some pretty easy assumptions just based on basic pop culture reference for pro wrestling. I think the 'they need to explain his mask' thing is overthinking it a lot.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 5, 2019 16:03:01 GMT -5
A couple weeks ago someone put on Double or Nothing at a 'hang around, watch stuff, grill some burgers' sort of party and half the room were non-fans. I decided to ask them about the mask thing and if it confused them or if they wanted some kind of explanation, and of the four people the responses I got were: -"It's wrestling, I thought people do that." -"I didn't even think about it." -"I figured he was a retired wrestler" twice. When I say non-fans I mean people who don't watch any wrestling at all and at most have internet osmosis knowledge or have just heard those of us who are wrestling fans talk about it enough to pick up a couple basics and thoughts. They didn't need it explained to them, they just saw what was there and if they noticed it, they made some pretty easy assumptions just based on basic pop culture reference for pro wrestling. I think the 'they need to explain his mask' thing is overthinking it a lot. I think it's based on the assumption that non-wrestling fans are complete idiots about wrestling. Which to be fair, a lot are, but at the very least, I'd expect more than most to know the most basic tropes. Like masks.
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Post by government mule on Jul 5, 2019 17:47:13 GMT -5
Eh, I get the point you're all hammering home about the mask thing, but I kinda wanted just a little context about who the guy is/was in the ring. If I were a completely out of the loop fan then yeah, a lot of the context gripes wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't know anyone full stop and I'd be watching in a different light.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 5, 2019 17:58:03 GMT -5
Career-wise, Excalibur's one of the founders of PWG and is really close friends with fellow founder Super Dragon. Even lived in his garage for awhile. He's also done work for some of the other larger indies like CZW, ROH, and Chikara as well as DDT in Japan. He was mostly a comedic wrestler, but retired in 2007 because he got some concussions and feared that anymore would severely damage his brain and shorten his life. He's served as play-by-play guy and in other non-wrestling roles for PWG since. He was also color commentator for All In.
There's no real context to the mask outside of just him wearing a mask as a wrestler.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 17:59:10 GMT -5
Eh, I get the point you're all hammering home about the mask thing, but I kinda wanted just a little context about who the guy is/was in the ring. If I were a completely out of the loop fan then yeah, a lot of the context gripes wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't know anyone full stop and I'd be watching in a different light. With the other examples given as well, Santo, Ventura, they were/are huge, legendary, cross culture names. Excalibur is not, however much some love PWG, the nature of their business model means unless you're a fan of their product, you've no idea who this guy is.
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Post by government mule on Jul 5, 2019 18:15:51 GMT -5
Career-wise, Excalibur's one of the founders of PWG and is really close friends with fellow founder Super Dragon. Even lived in his garage for awhile. He's also done work for some of the other larger indies like CZW, ROH, and Chikara as well as DDT in Japan. He was mostly a comedic wrestler, but retired in 2007 because he got some concussions and feared that anymore would severely damage his brain and shorten his life. He's served as play-by-play guy and in other non-wrestling roles for PWG since. He was also color commentator for All In. There's no real context to the mask outside of just him wearing a mask as a wrestler. That's fair enough (thankyou for the info by the way), but for all I knew before seeing him, he could have been hiding some hideous scar or be someone more famous hiding under the mask - I had no idea, but it would have been interesting and inclusive to know. He was pretty good as colour commentary I must say.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 19:40:29 GMT -5
Eh, I get the point you're all hammering home about the mask thing, but I kinda wanted just a little context about who the guy is/was in the ring. If I were a completely out of the loop fan then yeah, a lot of the context gripes wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't know anyone full stop and I'd be watching in a different light. With the other examples given as well, Santo, Ventura, they were/are huge, legendary, cross culture names. Excalibur is not, however much some love PWG, the nature of their business model means unless you're a fan of their product, you've no idea who this guy is. Thus the text on the screen that identifies him as "Excalibur." Because he's a masked wrestler named Excalibur. Who is on the announcing team. That's why it says "Excalibur" by him during the shot of the announcing team. He's the one in the mask. Named Excalibur. I really don't see what further explanation is necessary. This is like the one instance where people are expecting that the announcing team is going to provide the viewer their full resumes before calling the show.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 5, 2019 20:09:01 GMT -5
Besides, when Ventura started commentary, he was just another retired wrestler. He didn't start becoming a more mainstream name until he was retired and did some movies. He was never a Hogan or Andre-esque figure who transcended the wrasslin' bubble while still actively wrestling and wasn't exactly an A-Lister either.
So calling him a "legendary cross-culture" name is a bit of an exaggeration relative to the time he was a commentator when he was just another wrestler who was also like the sixth billed name in Predator. He just had more of a built-in wrestling install base because he did commentary for the company he worked for most of his career in the WWF. A company that was in the middle of a big boom period for the business as opposed to an upstart.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Jul 5, 2019 20:28:19 GMT -5
Besides, when Ventura started commentary, he was just another retired wrestler. He didn't start becoming a more mainstream name until he was retired and did some movies. He was never a Hogan or Andre-esque figure who transcended the wrasslin' bubble while still actively wrestling and wasn't exactly an A-Lister either. So calling him a "legendary cross-culture" name is a bit of an exaggeration relative to the time he was a commentator when he was just another wrestler who was also like the sixth billed name in Predator. He just had more of a built-in wrestling install base because he did commentary for the company he worked for most of his career in the WWF. A company that was in the middle of a big boom period for the business as opposed to an upstart. Ventura was a national name who had spent time in the biggest territories in the country in prominent, pushed roles. Excalibur wasn't a pimple on Jesse's rear end as a star even before Predator. I'm sort of agnostic on the idea of Excalibur in the mask but would prefer him not to be in one if I had to make a choice--but please, please stop insulting all of our collective intelligence by trying to compare him to Santo, Liger, Rey, Lawler, Ventura, Savage, and other guys who were long established on a major scale before they ever stepped behind a commentator's mic. The differences between Excalibur and the least of those names is still several orders of magnitude. He needs a better defense than that.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 5, 2019 20:47:34 GMT -5
Besides, when Ventura started commentary, he was just another retired wrestler. He didn't start becoming a more mainstream name until he was retired and did some movies. He was never a Hogan or Andre-esque figure who transcended the wrasslin' bubble while still actively wrestling and wasn't exactly an A-Lister either. So calling him a "legendary cross-culture" name is a bit of an exaggeration relative to the time he was a commentator when he was just another wrestler who was also like the sixth billed name in Predator. He just had more of a built-in wrestling install base because he did commentary for the company he worked for most of his career in the WWF. A company that was in the middle of a big boom period for the business as opposed to an upstart. Ventura was a national name who had spent time in the biggest territories in the country in prominent, pushed roles. Excalibur wasn't a pimple on Jesse's rear end as a star even before Predator. I'm sort of agnostic on the idea of Excalibur in the mask but would prefer him not to be in one if I had to make a choice--but please, please stop insulting all of our collective intelligence by trying to compare him to Santo, Liger, Rey, Lawler, Ventura, Savage, and other guys who were long established on a major scale before they ever stepped behind a commentator's mic. The differences between Excalibur and the least of those names is still several orders of magnitude. He needs a better defense than that. I was talking specifically about people who don't follow wrestling. Obviously, for anyone who follows wrestling, Ventura was going to be a much bigger name than Excalibur. Ventura had the stage of a national promotion like WWF while until AEW, Excalibur was mostly in regional super-indies. But anyone who didn't follow wrestling but tunes in to see a show the first time is going to see any of them as "Former wrestling guy still doing his gimmick." And since all of this is based on the argument that people watching AEW the first time will somehow be confused by a guy doing commentary in a mask, well, it doesn't really matter how big they were just inside the wrestling bubble.
Besides, I don't understand how fame makes a guy doing his gimmick as a color commentator any more or less ridiculous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 23:39:55 GMT -5
With the other examples given as well, Santo, Ventura, they were/are huge, legendary, cross culture names. Excalibur is not, however much some love PWG, the nature of their business model means unless you're a fan of their product, you've no idea who this guy is. Thus the text on the screen that identifies him as "Excalibur." Because he's a masked wrestler named Excalibur. Who is on the announcing team. That's why it says "Excalibur" by him during the shot of the announcing team. He's the one in the mask. Named Excalibur. I really don't see what further explanation is necessary. This is like the one instance where people are expecting that the announcing team is going to provide the viewer their full resumes before calling the show. And I would still know nothing about him. You don't feel explanation is needed, that's fine, others do and that's fine as well. The thread is about what people aren't liking about AEW, and this is something that stands out to some people, it's not up to others to decide what you or I like or dislike about a show. It doesn't bother me all that much but I can understand why it does for others. Its enough of an issue that more than one person here has said it and with due respect, there is no need for the patronising tone of your reply to me when it's a friendly discussion.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 6, 2019 0:11:41 GMT -5
Besides, when Ventura started commentary, he was just another retired wrestler. He didn't start becoming a more mainstream name until he was retired and did some movies. He was never a Hogan or Andre-esque figure who transcended the wrasslin' bubble while still actively wrestling and wasn't exactly an A-Lister either. So calling him a "legendary cross-culture" name is a bit of an exaggeration relative to the time he was a commentator when he was just another wrestler who was also like the sixth billed name in Predator. He just had more of a built-in wrestling install base because he did commentary for the company he worked for most of his career in the WWF. A company that was in the middle of a big boom period for the business as opposed to an upstart. Ventura was a national name who had spent time in the biggest territories in the country in prominent, pushed roles. Excalibur wasn't a pimple on Jesse's rear end as a star even before Predator. I'm sort of agnostic on the idea of Excalibur in the mask but would prefer him not to be in one if I had to make a choice--but please, please stop insulting all of our collective intelligence by trying to compare him to Santo, Liger, Rey, Lawler, Ventura, Savage, and other guys who were long established on a major scale before they ever stepped behind a commentator's mic. The differences between Excalibur and the least of those names is still several orders of magnitude. He needs a better defense than that. Long established to wrestling fans, sure, but non-fans would not know who the f*** Liger, Rey, Santo, etc, were. Why would they? It's not like they're in a bunch of media outside of wrestling. That's an utterly and complete moot point. Now, Savage, Ventura, non-fans would know from things like films or ads, or politics for Ventura. Lawler, they MIGHT know from Man on the Moon, but that's a longer shot. EDIT: Okay, thinking about it, El Santo of course did a lot of media outside of wrestling, I ought to point out. Though, that'd be decades ago, most of it never left Spanish, and the appeal of a lot of his films would probably be questionable to non-fans, unless they were real into campy nonsense.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 6, 2019 0:22:43 GMT -5
Ventura was a national name who had spent time in the biggest territories in the country in prominent, pushed roles. Excalibur wasn't a pimple on Jesse's rear end as a star even before Predator. I'm sort of agnostic on the idea of Excalibur in the mask but would prefer him not to be in one if I had to make a choice--but please, please stop insulting all of our collective intelligence by trying to compare him to Santo, Liger, Rey, Lawler, Ventura, Savage, and other guys who were long established on a major scale before they ever stepped behind a commentator's mic. The differences between Excalibur and the least of those names is still several orders of magnitude. He needs a better defense than that. Long established to wrestling fans, sure, but non-fans would not know who the f*** Liger, Rey, Santo, etc, were. Why would they? It's not like they're in a bunch of media outside of wrestling. That's an utterly and complete moot point. Now, Savage, Ventura, non-fans would know from things like films or ads, or politics for Ventura. Lawler, they MIGHT know from Man on the Moon, but that's a longer shot. Depends the age,none of my non-wrestling friends would know about Ventura but all of then WOOOULD SNAAAAP INTO A SLIM JIM,OH YEAH!
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