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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Oct 5, 2019 16:54:37 GMT -5
I don't like the result but I don't understand how one loss suddenly erases everything that Kofi did in this run up until now. He won the title at the biggest show, stepped up huge in all his matches, beat his long time rival in a story that called back to their first major meeting and did it all showing that you don't always have to be the big brooding badass to be the top guy.
None of those things are undone with a loss, even a loss like this. Brock is the world ending boss fight at the top of WWE and he has been for a few years now. I'm not really a fan of it but that's how they've presented him since he came back, the guy that can destroy anyone at anytime.
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Post by eJm on Oct 5, 2019 16:55:16 GMT -5
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Oct 5, 2019 16:57:54 GMT -5
The problem with the MMA argument is that one of the biggest things about Lesnar's matches is how long the other person can last against him and if they actually can kick out of anything. Kofi took one move, immediately died, and then a completely unrelated dude came out and actually beat up Lesnar. There's no universe where he doesn't look bad here. Also dudes who get knocked out in a super quick timespan *always* get clowned on mercilessly by most people so I'm not sure what Lance is on about there.
Also, on a personal note, I think that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN MMA stuff bleeding in to wrestling (with the exception of Bloodsport but even that's getting a bit rocky) is like the corniest thing ever. If I wanted to watch MMA I would literally just watch MMA.
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Post by eJm on Oct 5, 2019 17:02:15 GMT -5
I don't like the result but I don't understand how one loss suddenly erases everything that Kofi did in this run up until now. He won the title at the biggest show, stepped up huge in all his matches, beat his long time rival in a story that called back to their first major meeting and did it all showing that you don't always have to be the big brooding badass to be the top guy. None of those things are undone with a loss, even a loss like this. Brock is the world ending boss fight at the top of WWE and he has been for a few years now. I'm not really a fan of it but that's how they've presented him since he came back, the guy that can destroy anyone at anytime. From my view, it’s really hard to separate the two in my head. Like, honestly, Kofi winning the belt was one of the genuine feel good moments of the year for me. WWE lost a lot of faith in me for them to pay off a storyline like this and the fact they did it just made me stand up from my seat and mark in a bar where it hands down got the biggest reaction of the night. It defined how great wrestling can be at times, regardless of what I thought about WWE now. But...it’s hard to not think of that and go “Well, that all ended in 7 seconds to set up Brock vs. Dude who beat him who isn’t Frank Mir to satisfy the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia” and even typing that leaves a f***ing bad taste in my mouth. Another way it’s like a movie. A movie can be mostly really good and have great acting, directing and story...but if the ending sucks, that’s all I’m going to mostly remember because that’s the last part of the movie.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 5, 2019 17:03:35 GMT -5
Aight, I've slept on it. Here's my two big thoughts. f*** Brock Lesnar and his punk ass daddy. I am...actually ok with this? It's like MMA when somebody gets blasted with a lucky shot in the opening seconds and loses. You didn't get beat, you got caught. It's happened to the best in the world, including Brock himself. If Kofi had to lose, I prefer this than him getting beat in a usual 8 minute Brock fest. That being said, the boy better getting strapped up at Mania after slapping Brock around or I'mma be hot. Interesting you say that because here's what Lance Storm just said the hting is Lance ... I don't. I don't want pro wrestling to be MMA. I want wrestling to be Wrestling. and as stated. In MMA when people go down like that they get made fun of constantly.... I mean CM Punk get's mocked mercilessly for his crab walk...
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TheDieselTrain
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Oct 5, 2019 17:12:51 GMT -5
Do I dare say......that's what they get for not accepting the orange goblins "apology" I mean they are parading him again and assume he'll be back again before the blood money network house show special.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 5, 2019 17:17:19 GMT -5
The Masvidal flying knee to Askren was awesome to see as it happened.
Particularly cuz I was at Hooters and had like 5 beers in me and feeling no pain haha.
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Oct 5, 2019 17:30:03 GMT -5
I don't like the result but I don't understand how one loss suddenly erases everything that Kofi did in this run up until now. He won the title at the biggest show, stepped up huge in all his matches, beat his long time rival in a story that called back to their first major meeting and did it all showing that you don't always have to be the big brooding badass to be the top guy. None of those things are undone with a loss, even a loss like this. Brock is the world ending boss fight at the top of WWE and he has been for a few years now. I'm not really a fan of it but that's how they've presented him since he came back, the guy that can destroy anyone at anytime. From my view, it’s really hard to separate the two in my head. Like, honestly, Kofi winning the belt was one of the genuine feel good moments of the year for me. WWE lost a lot of faith in me for them to pay off a storyline like this and the fact they did it just made me stand up from my seat and mark in a bar where it hands down got the biggest reaction of the night. It defined how great wrestling can be at times, regardless of what I thought about WWE now. But...it’s hard to not think of that and go “Well, that all ended in 7 seconds to set up Brock vs. Dude who beat him who isn’t Frank Mir to satisfy the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia” and even typing that leaves a f***ing bad taste in my mouth. Another way it’s like a movie. A movie can be mostly really good and have great acting, directing and story...but if the ending sucks, that’s all I’m going to mostly remember because that’s the last part of the movie. I can understand that. I think it might all come down to reconciling the difference in how each of us as fans view these circumstances and matches. I was disappointed but my thought process was "Wow Kofi wasn't ready for Brock at all, how's he going to handle that?" Saudi Arabia didn't even factor into my thinking because those shows don't exist to me and nothing of consequence ever seems to happen there. Kofi not being mentioned after the debut was just natural because that's how WWE does things. All focus on the big moment, lots of shocked sound bites and crowd shots and nothing else gets mentioned until the next show. It's really interesting to see how our different takes and reactions cross over and meet at certain spots.
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Post by deadzeppelin on Oct 5, 2019 17:37:41 GMT -5
Kofi wasn't even going for Trouble In Paradise, that maybe might have made the MMA analogy work. Kofi didn't throw a "knockout punch" he jumped directly onto Brocks shoulders.... let me repeat that... HE FLYING NOTHING'D HIS WAY TO THE END OF HIS TITLE REIGN.
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Post by eJm on Oct 5, 2019 17:45:44 GMT -5
I can understand that. I think it might all come down to reconciling the difference in how each of us as fans view these circumstances and matches. I was disappointed but my thought process was "Wow Kofi wasn't ready for Brock at all, how's he going to handle that?" Saudi Arabia didn't even factor into my thinking because those shows don't exist to me and nothing of consequence ever seems to happen there. From my own perspective, a lot of WWE is so mechanical and by the book (even the illogical stuff) that all I can think of is “This is leading to this because they need to continue this feud to the next PPV” or “They have zero ideas for this guy so he’s being tossed aside for the new toy/feud that we can work with” and it just makes it less...fun. There’s never any real sense of diversion unless they’re forced into it which leads to basically trying to ignore the man behind the curtain and his own views of stuff when it’s in full view. Might not have explained it right and I’m not even saying something like AEW might not end that way but even going to an indie show, I can be invested because it feels like the show’s to make us happy rather than the Booker. Sure, the Saudi shows don’t have much of anything important (besides Shane’s BITW stuff) but until someone else is paying them $25m a show where they don’t have to contribute anything except themselves and whoever they drag with them so yeah, it’s much more glaring for me to tell when stuff’s being set up for that instead of, I don’t know, the stuff people in the rest of the world would care to watch.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Oct 5, 2019 17:59:23 GMT -5
This is just my opinion, but I don't want realism in my worked sport where half-naked men and women in tights pretend to fight while portraying outlandish characters.
You know, once upon a time, pro wrestling was a lot less scripted and was actually legit grappling, with limited worked aspects being incorporated later. You know why they stopped legit fighting and moved to entirely worked? Because after a while, every big match was just a slow, 60 minute chain wrestling fest that ended in a time limit draw every time, and people got tired of it and stopped watching. Viewership started increasing again once entirely scripted matches and storylines became the norm.
While that is, on the surface, the exact opposite problem, it stems from the same idea. Wrestling fans watch wrestling instead of other sports because it feels different from other sports. While a flash knockout or submission is interesting in an MMA fight, it's not something I wanna see out of my scripted fake fighting.
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Oct 5, 2019 18:00:27 GMT -5
I can understand that. I think it might all come down to reconciling the difference in how each of us as fans view these circumstances and matches. I was disappointed but my thought process was "Wow Kofi wasn't ready for Brock at all, how's he going to handle that?" Saudi Arabia didn't even factor into my thinking because those shows don't exist to me and nothing of consequence ever seems to happen there. From my own perspective, a lot of WWE is so mechanical and by the book (even the illogical stuff) that all I can think of is “This is leading to this because they need to continue this feud to the next PPV” or “They have zero ideas for this guy so he’s being tossed aside for the new toy/feud that we can work with” and it just makes it less...fun. There’s never any real sense of diversion unless they’re forced into it which leads to basically trying to ignore the man behind the curtain and his own views of stuff when it’s in full view. Might not have explained it right and I’m not even saying something like AEW might not end that way but even going to an indie show, I can be invested because it feels like the show’s to make us happy rather than the Booker. Sure, the Saudi shows don’t have much of anything important (besides Shane’s BITW stuff) but until someone else is paying them $25m a show where they don’t have to contribute anything except themselves and whoever they drag with them so yeah, it’s much more glaring for me to tell when stuff’s being set up for that instead of, I don’t know, the stuff people in the rest of the world would care to watch. I agree completely with the mechanical aspect of everything. It's made me a very casual main roster viewer because everything seems very low stake and low consequence. NXT handles everything better but I've taken to things like MLW lately because of how overall bland the WWE feels.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 18:03:20 GMT -5
I don't like the result but I don't understand how one loss suddenly erases everything that Kofi did in this run up until now. He won the title at the biggest show, stepped up huge in all his matches, beat his long time rival in a story that called back to their first major meeting and did it all showing that you don't always have to be the big brooding badass to be the top guy. None of those things are undone with a loss, even a loss like this. Brock is the world ending boss fight at the top of WWE and he has been for a few years now. I'm not really a fan of it but that's how they've presented him since he came back, the guy that can destroy anyone at anytime. It doesn't erase it, but it does put a bit of a stink on it. At least in the immediate aftermath. And while Brock is still the big bad, he hasn't been straight up murdering folks in less than a minute and he doesn't need to to maintain his aura. Braun, Roman, Joe, Seth, AJ, Bryan, Finn -- all competitive matches. Hell, he spent weeks destroying Seth and still lost. This just really felt like Kofi was done dirty. If this is just a beat to an ongoing story, cool. We'll see how it plays out. If they felt this was necessary to build Brock up, they were wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 19:16:05 GMT -5
Yep. WWE is acknowledging the Kofi support. That plus Kofi's comments seems like it is a Kofi support storyline like some of us have been predicting.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 5, 2019 19:24:18 GMT -5
Yep. WWE is acknowledging the Kofi support. That plus Kofi's comments seems like it is a Kofi support storyline like some of us have been predicting. As said already, Kofi pops was dwindling and this made him as big a babyface as he was coming into Mania Let fans use their outrage to fuel him up
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Oct 5, 2019 19:30:57 GMT -5
I liked it. Added unpredictably and foreshadowed Cain coming out.
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 5, 2019 19:33:30 GMT -5
I get what Lance is saying, but ehhh. I don't really think it matches the story told here, which was, "Enough of that. Here's Cain!"
Will WWE try to make this up to Kofi? Probably in some respect, but I have my doubts they'll ever put him on parity with Brock or anything, since Brock was so mad Seth beat him that he... just didn't give a shit and wandered into a title match he didn't earn. If Kofi does get to beat Brock sometime, Brock's probably just wandering to the other show to continue to be presented as more important than anyone else, and even that's an IF.
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Post by Dub H on Oct 5, 2019 19:43:42 GMT -5
The problem with the MMA argument is that one of the biggest things about Lesnar's matches is how long the other person can last against him and if they actually can kick out of anything. Kofi took one move, immediately died, and then a completely unrelated dude came out and actually beat up Lesnar. There's no universe where he doesn't look bad here. Also dudes who get knocked out in a super quick timespan *always* get clowned on mercilessly by most people so I'm not sure what Lance is on about there. Also, on a personal note, I think that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN MMA stuff bleeding in to wrestling (with the exception of Bloodsport but even that's getting a bit rocky) is like the corniest thing ever. If I wanted to watch MMA I would literally just watch MMA. The "MMA matchs end quikcly" argument is stupid.This isn't MMA. The storytelling doesn't change worlds just because Lesnar is in it.If Kofi can't last 1 minutes with Lesnar ,in wrestling he is a loser.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 19:59:52 GMT -5
I really think it's giving WWE entirely too much credit to say they're doing a Kofi redemption arc. I'll believe it when he wins the belt back and no sooner.
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 5, 2019 20:03:29 GMT -5
I really think it's giving WWE entirely too much credit to say they're doing a Kofi redemption arc. I'll believe it when he wins the belt back and no sooner. Which, I don't think is fully out of the realm of possibility, given Lesnar isn't going to work full time for long, even for Fox money. Wouldn't be terribly shocked if Kofi wins the Rumble.
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