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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 20:07:09 GMT -5
I really think it's giving WWE entirely too much credit to say they're doing a Kofi redemption arc. I'll believe it when he wins the belt back and no sooner. Which, I don't think is fully out of the realm of possibility, given Lesnar isn't going to work full time for long, even for Fox money. Wouldn't be terribly shocked if Kofi wins the Rumble. Isn't impossible, but at the moment I pretty much see KO and Roman as the only even kind of feasible Rumble options.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 20:08:27 GMT -5
I would have been more or less fine with Kofi losing the title, after a competitive match. Losing in what, 7 seconds? was garbage, and was a shit ending for the story of Kofi proving he belonged in the main event.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 5, 2019 20:09:04 GMT -5
Which, I don't think is fully out of the realm of possibility, given Lesnar isn't going to work full time for long, even for Fox money. Wouldn't be terribly shocked if Kofi wins the Rumble. Isn't impossible, but at the moment I pretty much see KO and Roman as the only even kind of feasible Rumble options. KO, I could see, but I could see WWE and Roman being loathe to have Reigns win the Rumble again, given wary about crowd reaction. Like, I could see him in the final four, but he eh, I dunno.
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Post by Main Event Mark on Oct 5, 2019 20:10:11 GMT -5
Don't you dare be sour.
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Evil Homer
Hank Scorpio
I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer.
Posts: 5,378
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Post by Evil Homer on Oct 5, 2019 20:12:22 GMT -5
he had a solid run , he should have lost it to KO , Bryan , Roman , or even Orton would have been acceptable
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Oct 5, 2019 20:26:23 GMT -5
Does this Brock vs. Cain thing need a title? I felt Kofi could’ve won and you do the Cain confrontation post-match.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Oct 5, 2019 21:09:29 GMT -5
You know I was pissed, but more annoyed than anything.
Hey a new company just started up and did awesome, how do you respond on your main roster?
You bury your full time guy, have him get squashed, then have your next title feud between two part time MMA fighters. This shit was like Tito Ortiz in TNA except is more annoying than funny.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Oct 5, 2019 21:14:18 GMT -5
Does this Brock vs. Cain thing need a title? I felt Kofi could’ve won and you do the Cain confrontation post-match. Doesn’t make sense to have someone stand up to an already beaten heel. Maybe you have Brock go mad and get DQ’d to set it up but I think that would have hurt the “real sport” feel that has been thrown around.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 5, 2019 21:25:18 GMT -5
Does this Brock vs. Cain thing need a title? I felt Kofi could’ve won and you do the Cain confrontation post-match. Doesn’t make sense to have someone stand up to an already beaten heel. Maybe you have Brock go mad and get DQ’d to set it up but I think that would have hurt the “real sport” feel that has been thrown around. Could have been a situation like Kofi won by 3 seconds with a flash KO and Brock waking up to kick his ass after getting stunned. He beats up Kofi until Rey/Cain makes the save
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Oct 5, 2019 21:44:23 GMT -5
I think we can all agree that Vince McMahon has lost touch with pro wrestling to such an extent that he will drive WWE into the ground and not realize it.
I think a lot of the talent are holding out for more money, better opportunities, etc. Yes, some may seem happy with their moves to one of the other brands, but I think some are also keeping their heads down and their mouths shut until contract negotiations come up and they can simply bounce for AEW or New Japan or wherever.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Oct 5, 2019 22:03:57 GMT -5
Doesn’t make sense to have someone stand up to an already beaten heel. Maybe you have Brock go mad and get DQ’d to set it up but I think that would have hurt the “real sport” feel that has been thrown around. Could have been a situation like Kofi won by 3 seconds with a flash KO and Brock waking up to kick his ass after getting stunned. He beats up Kofi until Rey/Cain makes the save If they didn't use the "athlete in the crowd has a confrontation with a wrestler" thing already for Braun vs. Tyson Fury, I would've had Cain in the crowd for the match. Kofi wins, then Brock, incensed at his loss, decides to get in Cain's face. Pull apart brawl to end the show.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 5, 2019 23:26:17 GMT -5
Does this Brock vs. Cain thing need a title? I felt Kofi could’ve won and you do the Cain confrontation post-match. Doesn’t make sense to have someone stand up to an already beaten heel. Maybe you have Brock go mad and get DQ’d to set it up but I think that would have hurt the “real sport” feel that has been thrown around. Hey, Brock can lose in 10 seconds! It's like MMA! In MMA you can be caught with a quick shot and boom it's over, and that's just what this is like! Everyone gets it. Pshh, if losing quickly would hurt Brock, then that means most of the bullshit excuses people have made about Kofi losing quickly don't make any sense and cmonnnnnnnnnn
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 6, 2019 5:55:17 GMT -5
Having someone lose in under 10 seconds is fine. Playing up the "anything can happen in combat sports!" aspect is fine.
...But only if you go somewhere with it, because pro wrestling is ultimately a narrative steeped in a sports presentation.
If Kofi gets a redemption arc out of this, then it will have been worthwhile to show him at his lowest before getting back to the top, or at least battling back to give Brock a huge fight. I'm reminded of NJPW booking KUSHIDA to lose the Jr. title to Hiromu Takahashi in 90 seconds because he "tried to fight in Hiromu's style" and got sloppy; his redemption involved him staying true to his own style and not getting lost in Takahashi's chaotic nature in the rematch.
If Kofi just goes to Raw and people are expected to take him seriously as a top level contender there...no. You've just hurt him, and you've closed to the door on a possible redemption arc because he'd be on the other show.
So yeah, this means WWE has to overcome its biggest weakness: not doing "moments for the sake of having moments", and instead booking things so that what happens in the ring matters and impacts character arcs and future in-ring interactions between fully formed personalities.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,796
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Post by Nosnorb on Oct 6, 2019 7:40:43 GMT -5
The worst thing in all this? That in kayfabe, there was nothing unjust in how Kofi lost the title. There was no bad call, there was no cheap shot before the bell, there was no interference from Heyman, just Kofi making a rookie mistake and not so much walking into an F5 as running and jumping into it.
And that makes it even more unfair on Kofi in real life.
And if WWE thinks that this will galvanize the fans to get behind Kofi as they did with Bryan, then it almost certainly won’t work, as the big difference with Bryan is that both kayfabe and real life, Bryan was hard done by - the dude was cheap shotted by Sheamus and the following year, Bryan was screwed by both Trips and Orton. The fans wanted to see Bryan win back what was rightfully his.
But there was no injustice in how Brock beat Kofi. Brock challenged Kofi, it was accepted and two weeks later when the bell rang Brock beat Kofi clean. To those that follow through kayfabe and/or look at this like a real sport, a worked shoot storyline is not going to work, because in storyline Kofi only has himself to blame for losing.
A redemption storyline could work if Kofi comes out on Monday and cuts a fiery promo where he admits he made a rookie mistake, and where he vows to prove that he can hang with Brock Lesnar and is going to do everything he can to win the title back.
But another Yes Movement style storyline? Nah, that ain’t it chief.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 6, 2019 11:13:28 GMT -5
Along with the removal, one way or another, of Vince McMahon from WWE, the end of Brock Lesnar as a WWE performer might bring me back to the product.
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Post by Macho Pichu on Oct 6, 2019 11:25:26 GMT -5
I'm giving WWE until the Rumble to stop pissing me off. and even that's only because I'm going there, so I'd at least like to keep up until then for context reasons. After that, I'm switching to just AEW. I'll watch both in the meantime.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 6, 2019 13:19:04 GMT -5
The worst thing in all this? That in kayfabe, there was nothing unjust in how Kofi lost the title. Kayfabe involves the booking now, though. "In kayfabe," Kofi got squashed because the mean ol' WWE wanted a big moment for their premiere. This is very, very common (it's pretty much his whole championship story), just with varying degrees of pretense for any traditionally kayfabe reason for what's happening. This is a best case interpretation, of course. It's more likely they're just done with Kingston.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,796
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Post by Nosnorb on Oct 6, 2019 14:01:33 GMT -5
Another thing that needs mentioning and has been lost among all this - WWE advertised a top title match on both Raw and Smackdown. In the first case, that match (one between a legend and the top babyface of the company no less) never took place and in the latter, it was over in a blink of an eye. All to build to a match that looks likely was demanded by FOX as part of the new "Real Sports" feel and get heat on Lesnar.
After that, how are WWE going to get fans to buy into future pre-announced Free TV title matches in light of that?
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Oct 6, 2019 15:01:41 GMT -5
The worst thing in all this? That in kayfabe, there was nothing unjust in how Kofi lost the title. Kayfabe involves the booking now, though. "In kayfabe," Kofi got squashed because the mean ol' WWE wanted a big moment for their premiere. This is very, very common (it's pretty much his whole championship story), just with varying degrees of pretense for any traditionally kayfabe reason for what's happening. This is a best case interpretation, of course. It's more likely they're just done with Kingston. That sounds just like Roman after Mania last year whining about how Vince didn’t “smarten him up” about Brock. There was no cheap shots or low blows in that match, just Brock kicking the shit out of Roman and Roman losing quick and clean like an idiot. Dude made it sound like it was a real life shoot fight or something he didn’t know about.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 6, 2019 15:11:12 GMT -5
Kayfabe involves the booking now, though. "In kayfabe," Kofi got squashed because the mean ol' WWE wanted a big moment for their premiere. This is very, very common (it's pretty much his whole championship story), just with varying degrees of pretense for any traditionally kayfabe reason for what's happening. This is a best case interpretation, of course. It's more likely they're just done with Kingston. That sounds just like Roman after Mania last year whining about how Vince didn’t “smarten him up” about Brock. There was no cheap shots or low blows in that match, just Brock kicking the shit out of Roman and Roman losing quick and clean like an idiot. Dude made it sound like it was a real life shoot fight or something he didn’t know about. Which was rightfully called stupid.
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