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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 23, 2019 17:48:30 GMT -5
Why is Seth even on this ?
Dude is a top guy in name, not in standing per se. When he main events a Mania (even tho that is more hollow now) then yea but for now nah I don't even see why he is on the list. Smells more of recency bias
I'm going with the other in Lesnar in how much he has stagnated everyone
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Post by Cyno on Oct 23, 2019 17:51:07 GMT -5
Toss-up between Rollins and Reigns for me. But I went with Rollins because he's a douchebag. I also stopped watching during Rollins' time as top guy but I still watched while Reigns was.
But if Lesnar is considered a top guy in WWE, then he absolutely gets my vote over either. I've never liked him even when he was a full-timer back in the early 00's.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 23, 2019 18:02:10 GMT -5
Even in WWE's long history of crazy f***ups, I'm not sure there's anything that compares to the sheer amount of time and resources wasted on trying to center their entire product around Roman Reigns and the utter failure to achieve pretty much anything out of it.
Roman Reigns went close to four years on the main roster before taking a clean pin, and that came after failing a drug test. Roman was getting accolades hyped onto him from the minute he debuted (Most eliminations in a Survivor Series match! And in a Royal Rumble!) Roman Reigns has main evented Wrestlemania more times than Stone Cold Steve Austin. I repeat, Roman Reigns has main evented Wrestlemania more times than Stone Cold Steve Austin. Perhaps more tellingly than that, at Wrestlemania Main Event #3 over the Undertaker, the commentators were still uses phrases like "this young man", "the future", to describe him, because after all that shit they'd piled on him (mostly by tearing down the rest of their roster), Roman was still a work-in-progress who needed to be gotten over. At the equivalent point in his career to Austin at WM 17, when his stardom had already peaked and he was at the beginning of winding down.
WWE's ratings slide has been accelerating over the last few years, largely since Cena started being phased out. It feels unfair to lay that all on Reigns, but god damn, look back at those years and tell me what else there was except a parade of sacrifices being thrown into the gaping maw of the endless Roman Reigns push. I don't think we've come close to even measuring the extent to which this period's booking has damaged WWE as a brand and paved the way for the first serious competition they've had this century.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Oct 23, 2019 18:08:37 GMT -5
Cena at least brought in new young fans while making so many older fans tune out in droves and his longevity comes into play as a positive too.
So gotta be Roman.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 23, 2019 18:23:11 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar and it's not even close. He's been their top guy for years while barely showing up, putting in half-assed-at-best performances, and generally giving absolutely no f***s about the company, the fans, the other guys on the roster, or the business. On top of it, ratings and attendance have dropped during his time on top, and doesn't even move much merch. Oh, and he's a shit human being and an average-at-best MMA competitor. Lesnar is the worst top guy in history. Roll eyes
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 23, 2019 18:24:23 GMT -5
I get why people dislike Rollins now. His recent booking has been appalling and he comes across as such a thin skinned jerk on social media, he seems a real life heel. But come on now, How can people say this one year of Rollins is worse than the FOUR/FIVE years of PUSH ROMAN nonsense? Have people forgotten that Roman had 3 Wrestlemania main events in a row from 2016 to 2018 that were all dreadful boring horrible matches? He stank out Mania 3 years running. He was unbearable as the top guy. THIS
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Oct 23, 2019 18:43:34 GMT -5
Cena at least he brought in new young fans while making so many older fans tune out in droves and his longevity comes into play as a positive too. So gotta be Roman. That longevity is actually a huge negative because for all the insistence that everything was ruined because Roman, and even as someone who adores Roman I will acknowledge in retrospect his booking was deeply flawed, how much was actively destroyed by Cena during his tenure and set the template for WWE Modern Face Booking 101? - Jericho pointlessly thrown into the Cena/Christian feud and then turned heel on the way out - Angle losing in ridiculously overbooked fashion in an overbooked feud - Edge getting his first reign cut off at the knees for Cena vs. Triple H to happen - Edge getting sacrificed to Cena in his hometown - Umaga's push getting destroyed because Super Cena - Miz's first big singles push post-Dirt Sheet breakup getting cut down - The Nexus getting fed to Super Cena at Summerslam and Barrett basically cut off at the knees, and for as much as people point to the end of the Bad News stuff as THE END, THE END came at Survivor Series 2010 - Miz forced to be a background player in his biggest push for a Cena/Rock feud that helped NOBODY - R-Truth's entertaining heel run sacrificed at Capital Punishment in utterly stupid fashion - Awesome Truth sacrificed because Cena/Rock feud - Ryder sacrificed for a pointless Kane/Cena feud - Punk's entire awesome run sacrificed for an unwanted Rock title reign and unneeded Rock/Cena rematch - Ryback sacrificed to Cena, which he never recovered from - Wyatt Family sacrificed to Cena TWICE which they never really recovered from - Rusev sacrificed to Cena which he never has recovered from - Styles' great heel title run sacrificed so Cena could tie Flair's record FOR A COUPLE WEEKS! - Damaged Reigns even further than he already was in the eyes of fans prior to No Mercy 2017 Between those moments, all the guys he shouldn't have damaged that I honestly forgot as a result, the fact that I can barely name more people who benefitted from facing Cena than did Reigns and considering the fact that I genuinely cannot name anyone who has had anything truly negative to say about Roman compared to what has been said about Cena, and even setting aside my personal liking or disliking of either man, Cena takes this by a few dozen miles, and not just over Roman. Over almost any top guy WWE has had. Granted, while it's no excuse for how WWE has booked top guys starting from, well, actually BEFORE Cena, fan preferences HAVE changed. If you took Hulk Hogan at his top WWE guy peak and with the same booking and put him in the spot Cena or Reigns or Rollins has occupied or currently occupies, he'd have the same backlash as they had/have. Super Invincible Face simply doesn't work anymore. That's part of what helped Bryan and Kofi: that was what they weren't. If they had that exact same kind of booking they'd have been in deep trouble. It's part of the problem with WWE as a whole: Vince genuinely knows only one way to book top guys anymore and while I can understand why (he's had success with it before, why shouldn't he have success with it now?) I can't say it's a good thing.
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J is Justice
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Post by J is Justice on Oct 23, 2019 19:41:52 GMT -5
I've gotta go with Shawn.
I actually watched a lot of his run recently and it's even worse than I remember. The matches were great but his character as a face was just awful. How do you cheer a guy who comes out to a song calling himself a sexy boy, that strips in the ring, including pulling down his tights after the Rumble match? Just so cringe. At least Diesel was kind of cool, even if they watered him down. Plus, he had great matches with Shawn and Bret. But Shawn was just an awful, awful face. Great heel, though.
To be fair, I haven't seen anything after 2003. I was never a huge Triple H fan, so I can imagine I would've hated that run.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Oct 23, 2019 19:59:10 GMT -5
Cena at least he brought in new young fans while making so many older fans tune out in droves and his longevity comes into play as a positive too. So gotta be Roman. That longevity is actually a huge negative because for all the insistence that everything was ruined because Roman, and even as someone who adores Roman I will acknowledge in retrospect his booking was deeply flawed, how much was actively destroyed by Cena during his tenure and set the template for WWE Modern Face Booking 101? - Jericho pointlessly thrown into the Cena/Christian feud and then turned heel on the way out - Angle losing in ridiculously overbooked fashion in an overbooked feud - Edge getting his first reign cut off at the knees for Cena vs. Triple H to happen - Edge getting sacrificed to Cena in his hometown - Umaga's push getting destroyed because Super Cena - Miz's first big singles push post-Dirt Sheet breakup getting cut down - The Nexus getting fed to Super Cena at Summerslam and Barrett basically cut off at the knees, and for as much as people point to the end of the Bad News stuff as THE END, THE END came at Survivor Series 2010 - Miz forced to be a background player in his biggest push for a Cena/Rock feud that helped NOBODY - R-Truth's entertaining heel run sacrificed at Capital Punishment in utterly stupid fashion - Awesome Truth sacrificed because Cena/Rock feud - Ryder sacrificed for a pointless Kane/Cena feud - Punk's entire awesome run sacrificed for an unwanted Rock title reign and unneeded Rock/Cena rematch - Ryback sacrificed to Cena, which he never recovered from - Wyatt Family sacrificed to Cena TWICE which they never really recovered from - Rusev sacrificed to Cena which he never has recovered from - Styles' great heel title run sacrificed so Cena could tie Flair's record FOR A COUPLE WEEKS! - Damaged Reigns even further than he already was in the eyes of fans prior to No Mercy 2017 Between those moments, all the guys he shouldn't have damaged that I honestly forgot as a result, the fact that I can barely name more people who benefitted from facing Cena than did Reigns and considering the fact that I genuinely cannot name anyone who has had anything truly negative to say about Roman compared to what has been said about Cena, and even setting aside my personal liking or disliking of either man, Cena takes this by a few dozen miles, and not just over Roman. Over almost any top guy WWE has had. Granted, while it's no excuse for how WWE has booked top guys starting from, well, actually BEFORE Cena, fan preferences HAVE changed. If you took Hulk Hogan at his top WWE guy peak and with the same booking and put him in the spot Cena or Reigns or Rollins has occupied or currently occupies, he'd have the same backlash as they had/have. Super Invincible Face simply doesn't work anymore. That's part of what helped Bryan and Kofi: that was what they weren't. If they had that exact same kind of booking they'd have been in deep trouble. It's part of the problem with WWE as a whole: Vince genuinely knows only one way to book top guys anymore and while I can understand why (he's had success with it before, why shouldn't he have success with it now?) I can't say it's a good thing. Nah, still Roman IMO.
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Post by nickcave on Oct 23, 2019 21:14:21 GMT -5
Jinder
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Post by RI Richmark on Oct 23, 2019 21:32:43 GMT -5
In my opinion, Lex Luger. It was Vince's attempt to prove that he made Hulk Hogan by trying to turn Luger into another Hulk Hogan.
But as much as I like him Roman Reigns is a close second.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 23:07:55 GMT -5
Why is Seth even on this ? Dude is a top guy in name, not in standing per se. When he main events a Mania (even tho that is more hollow now) then yea but for now nah I don't even see why he is on the list. Smells more of recency bias I'm going with the other in Lesnar in how much he has stagnated everyone The PR stuff is a little overblown too. I agree he comes off as a douche at times, but doesn't he mostly get ripped on because he's almost TOO positive about WWE? He still has nothing on CM "Sociopathic straight edgelord atheist jerk" Punk in that regard (I know Punk never really felt like the "top guy" when he had that long reign, but you could understand why sometimes) Edit: I mean I guess there's also the stuff about him being offended over shit like "Seth is not cool" signs. You gotta accept stuff like that if you want to be the guy... if that wasn't some stupid work.
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Post by Sam Punk on Oct 24, 2019 0:01:59 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest Seth fan but I'm surprised he is winning this. Did he ever tear his quad walking across the ring?
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Oct 24, 2019 0:25:19 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest Seth fan but I'm surprised he is winning this. Did he ever tear his quad walking across the ring? I voted for Diesel in this, but I gotta defend Nash on that incident. Nash had already had knee issues, and once you've had it once it's easy to do it again. And at Nash's height it's really easy to tear something in your legs. It's why so many 7 foot former NBA players and wrestlers, have so much trouble walking around.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 0:27:25 GMT -5
My serious answer's Roman, though. I think he's being booked well now and I've even come to enjoy some of his matches lately, but it's going to take a while before Rollins starts getting half the hate this dude got. WWE put him in so many bad spots (4 WrestleMania events in a row knowing the crowd would shit on all of them, letting Cena tear him apart on the mic and make him look like a dumbass), it took him announcing he had cancer to get people to warm up to him.
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Post by thetower52 on Oct 24, 2019 1:55:47 GMT -5
Jinder ?
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Post by Brian Suntan on Oct 24, 2019 2:55:12 GMT -5
There is zero chance that Seth will be leading this poll if done again in five years time.
Recency bias and the general ongoing feeling that everything we hate now is worse than the things we really hated in the past is strong. Anyone who was on the internet during HHHate or 'Cena wins we riot' will know that Seth's had a pretty good run on balance so far.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 3:10:45 GMT -5
I don't feel like voting freakin' Rollins is overreaction at all. There's only couple guys to choose from and it's not just about the recent stuff: he has not offered anything interesting or too memorable matches since mid 2017 at least, that's almost three years of sucking in a row. No need to white knight him! Only difference there is that he has not been the "top guy" all that time. Roman has at least couple great matches under his belly and looks like a champ. e: When I played that WWE ksomething game where he was on the cover w/ my friend who does not understand anything about wrestling, he was the last guy he picked out of all possible choices and this is a true story.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 24, 2019 11:53:40 GMT -5
Cena at least he brought in new young fans while making so many older fans tune out in droves and his longevity comes into play as a positive too. So gotta be Roman. That longevity is actually a huge negative because for all the insistence that everything was ruined because Roman, and even as someone who adores Roman I will acknowledge in retrospect his booking was deeply flawed, how much was actively destroyed by Cena during his tenure and set the template for WWE Modern Face Booking 101? - Jericho pointlessly thrown into the Cena/Christian feud and then turned heel on the way out - Angle losing in ridiculously overbooked fashion in an overbooked feud - Edge getting his first reign cut off at the knees for Cena vs. Triple H to happen - Edge getting sacrificed to Cena in his hometown - Umaga's push getting destroyed because Super Cena - Miz's first big singles push post-Dirt Sheet breakup getting cut down - The Nexus getting fed to Super Cena at Summerslam and Barrett basically cut off at the knees, and for as much as people point to the end of the Bad News stuff as THE END, THE END came at Survivor Series 2010 - Miz forced to be a background player in his biggest push for a Cena/Rock feud that helped NOBODY - R-Truth's entertaining heel run sacrificed at Capital Punishment in utterly stupid fashion - Awesome Truth sacrificed because Cena/Rock feud - Ryder sacrificed for a pointless Kane/Cena feud - Punk's entire awesome run sacrificed for an unwanted Rock title reign and unneeded Rock/Cena rematch - Ryback sacrificed to Cena, which he never recovered from - Wyatt Family sacrificed to Cena TWICE which they never really recovered from - Rusev sacrificed to Cena which he never has recovered from - Styles' great heel title run sacrificed so Cena could tie Flair's record FOR A COUPLE WEEKS! - Damaged Reigns even further than he already was in the eyes of fans prior to No Mercy 2017 Between those moments, all the guys he shouldn't have damaged that I honestly forgot as a result, the fact that I can barely name more people who benefitted from facing Cena than did Reigns and considering the fact that I genuinely cannot name anyone who has had anything truly negative to say about Roman compared to what has been said about Cena, and even setting aside my personal liking or disliking of either man, Cena takes this by a few dozen miles, and not just over Roman. Over almost any top guy WWE has had. Granted, while it's no excuse for how WWE has booked top guys starting from, well, actually BEFORE Cena, fan preferences HAVE changed. If you took Hulk Hogan at his top WWE guy peak and with the same booking and put him in the spot Cena or Reigns or Rollins has occupied or currently occupies, he'd have the same backlash as they had/have. Super Invincible Face simply doesn't work anymore. That's part of what helped Bryan and Kofi: that was what they weren't. If they had that exact same kind of booking they'd have been in deep trouble. It's part of the problem with WWE as a whole: Vince genuinely knows only one way to book top guys anymore and while I can understand why (he's had success with it before, why shouldn't he have success with it now?) I can't say it's a good thing. I cannot give this enough likes. Roman's forced push was so bad but by then the damage had been done with Cena. WWE's determination to make people like Cena and to make him a legend drove fans away and killed WWE as a whole. The Roman push only made things worse.
I think people have forgotten just how bad Cena's megapush was.
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Oct 24, 2019 12:21:25 GMT -5
For me, it's a toss up between Roman (who was made to look like a bum way, way too many times) and Beastie Boy.
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