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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 23, 2019 7:46:10 GMT -5
Because the weird cult line that comes out of people isn't that people don't like what's being offered and should tune out, but that people who don't like it secretly do like it and just want to hate it, and are determined to act like they know better. It's not a gun to peoples' heads, but it's a deflection of criticism that prevents them from ever being able to fix what's wrong, because they've convinced themselves the only problem is the people denying themselves this totally cool good thing. It's never "Don't like it? Don't watch it", it's always "No you just want to be cool and act like you hate something" and it's really f***ing dumb. The people sticking with WWE want to like it, and are determined to put up with as much terrible as they can hoping it gets better, and now, people are realizing it isn't, and they're bailing. But people stay in its orbit wanting to like it, wanting to come back, if only they would get into shape. All of that comes together to form something really complex and driven by different reasons from different people. Who are then told "Be a fan" or have any concerns brushed off to single out the extreme hate goblins on twitter. Being dismissed like that isn't going to sit well with people. Because WWE has tried to give fans what they asked for, and they still complain. Fans can get it exactly how they asked for it, and still complain. The default setting, it seems, is that everything WWE does is wrong and nothing they can do is right because it was "too late" or "Done wrong" or, in some cases, "Already ruined FOREVER". WWE has tried. They're not asking you to "accept it and shut up". They're asking you to keep an open mind but so many people have their minds already made up that they'll look at a preview, decide it's going to suck but watch anyway, or not watch, read a negatively slanted review (which is the majority of them out there, btw) and say "I didn't watch but I bet it sucked." Yeah, that's nt how this goes, and you have to actively ignore every time a really well received show gets positive responses to see that. Every live thread where maybe the show goes off the rails at the end, but the stuff going on before that is pretty neat. The people moved to real-ass tears when Kofi Kingston won at Mania, the people who were then super happy when Becky won later that night. You're propping up strawmen that don't widely exist and broadly applying that idea to massive swaths of the fanbase. Go see how many often critical fans posted positive things in the Rate the Wrestlemania thread and see how much of this post still stands when the biggest criticism out of that show was just how long it was. This weird "I'm telling you what you really think" angle people take to try and defend the company just because they don't like that people don't like it is trash.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 23, 2019 9:04:02 GMT -5
If ya work there I can see sticking up for it, but it's a weird way to treat your dwindling core fan base that's actually sticking with you.
Droves of people have tuned out. There's no way to spin that; so essentially telling you guys who have stuck around just to sit there and like it is an odd strategy--not just from him, from the top down.
But as long as that shrinking audience is content to tune in and spend money, I guess it's a way to go.
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Rolent Tex
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Post by Rolent Tex on Oct 23, 2019 9:16:51 GMT -5
I’m not trying to direct....you have a roster on par or better than Monday Night Wars Era WWF and WCW. Entertain me!!!!! If you don’t, know who is? AEW.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Oct 23, 2019 9:18:44 GMT -5
The disparity in the reaction to WWE, in comparison to the rest of the current wrestling world shows me that, without a shadow of a doubt, WWE and several of its performers are right: it’s us that’s the problem.
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bob
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Post by bob on Oct 23, 2019 9:22:20 GMT -5
Local man yells at cloud
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 9:32:55 GMT -5
I haven't found myself thinking "they should do (x)" while watching one of AEW's shows yet.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 23, 2019 9:35:06 GMT -5
He’s right in a sense. Lots of fans watch wrestling as if they’re the producer or the writers. I’ve done it myself. I find myself enjoying it a hell of a lot more when I’m not playing arm chair booker. Why? Because I don’t play out scenarios in my head and then be upset when they don’t come through. But shit like The Fiend/Rollins at HIAC, The Wild Card Rule etc just sucks ass and there is no defending that. We are not rebelling, we are voicing our opinion. There’s a difference. This is the thing really. There is a difference between being a fan that nitpick and a fan that just doesn't want their intelligence insulted. In a sense Show is right - sit back and enjoy it! Or stop watching. A lot of folks like that option.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Oct 23, 2019 10:44:48 GMT -5
My 14 year old son was watching Raw with me on monday. He saw that first Rusev/Lasley segment, said "this is stupid, no wonder the other show (AEW) gets more attention " and left the room to play Nintendo switch. He's not a wrestling fan, but he was bored enough to stop watching, and yet he watched AEW Dark with me on Tuesday and stayed interested.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Oct 23, 2019 10:47:15 GMT -5
Could it be that the show sucks? No, it's the audience that's wrong.
f*** off, Show. You're a moron.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Oct 23, 2019 10:50:18 GMT -5
Go be a fan.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 10:52:46 GMT -5
This is the thing really. There is a difference between being a fan that nitpick and a fan that just doesn't want their intelligence insulted. In a sense Show is right - sit back and enjoy it! Or stop watching. A lot of folks like that option. Seems like the most vocal fans don't stop watching though which is just weird. I can get people saying "nah this is how you should do it" and then they just tune out like a lot of fans are. The ones who are still watching these days fully having the company say this to them and they still have a problem with it? I'm like, what will it take for you to stop watching? That's how the company as a whole feels I'm sure. A lot are tuning out but they're probably wondering why those who are still tuned in still watch fully voicing their discrepancies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 10:57:59 GMT -5
Anytime a retired guy says something like this they should offer up something about the current product they enjoy.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Oct 23, 2019 10:58:59 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not arm chair directing when the shows bore you so much that you begin to fall asleep watching them. I'll stick to NXT/AEW on Wednesday nights
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Post by doinkmark on Oct 23, 2019 11:00:26 GMT -5
Just a reminder: Big Show has a WWE-produced show coming to Netflix. Of course he's towing the company line. No matter how dumb the talking point is. Nothing to get upset over. Just the usual WWE BS.
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Post by héad.casé on Oct 23, 2019 11:00:28 GMT -5
I’ve been watching wrestling since 1987. Hulk Hogan & Sting with his bleach blond flat top were my heroes. I’ve watched consistently through the Rock n Wrestling Era, the New Generation, the Monday Night Wars and have always found something to enjoy.
Because both RAW and SmackDown are both on at 1am here in the UK, I watch the first hour and go to bed. I used to watch the rest of the show the next day. I can’t even remember the last time I did that. I just read Keller’s recap on PW Torch now. Even now I still find stuff to enjoy. Whether it’s the O.C acting like idiots and Gallows randomly shouting “NERDS!”, Ric Flair’s drunken promos cracking me up, or Braun just wrecking shit.
I do think NXT is WWE’s best show right now, and I am really enjoying AEW, but as a long time fan of wrestling, WWE, and a former wrestler myself, I don’t want to be turned away. I want all of their shows to be good. I miss the excitement of watching RAW and wondering what’s going to happen next week.
If anything, part of me hates that I became a wrestler because when I watch matches now, I watch them from a performers point of view - I watch how they take bumps, I watch how they move, how they lock up, how they sell, but maybe that’s not a bad thing.
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Oct 23, 2019 11:04:14 GMT -5
For the last few years I've mostly only watched WrestleMania, and only because it's such a big and historied show that's the most likely to have effort put into it (though that's not necessarily guaranteed). Given such long breaks between consuming WWE, and an active willingness (actively trying, because even if some bits don't go the way I'd like, I didn't pay to shit on everything and feel miserable) to enjoy the show, I can just about muster the goodwill to overlook things that fall flat, or seem stupid, or whatever. It's a one-off special, once a year, I don't watch much modern TV and I don't watch any sports, so it's a nice little treat, y'know? I'll directly compliment things about the show I enjoy, I thought Firefly Funhouse would make a really fun dark adult spinoff spoof of a kids show, for example, in the same way that adult cartoons are a thing. I do genuinely want to enjoy it and I don't set out with the mindset that everything has to go my way or it sucks, I want to be lost in the fiction, I don't want to be reminded that they can't write a coherent story to save their lives.
But I'm unable, and I'm not even willing to subject myself to trying any more, to try and do that week in and week out. Frankly I'm being incredibly generous, almost out of sheer momentum and habit, paying for WrestleMania (via the Network) and it kinda bugs me that I'm giving them money when I know I'm basically humouring them and that the weekly shows and most other PPVs are going to suck. I'm just a sucker for a special event like Mania. Eventually, unless things pick up, I'm likely to stop even doing that. I've been less and less engaged with the product for years, I'd love for that to turn around, but while it's still a nonsensical bland grind that's not going to happen.
Incidentally, don't bother crying wolf. There's been a whole bunch of instances of "but we're really going to change this time guys! we get it, you want something new, we're gonna totally overhaul the shows and you'll love it!" and I won't hear you when you actually genuinely mean it, because at this point it's become just another tired "Shit WWE Says" meme.
So to bring it around to the topic at hand, no, sorry, I can't just "sit back and watch the show", because as a few people have pointed out that's just not possible if the show is as boring and poorly written as it is. It's very difficult to remain engaged when all you can think is "I've seen this match three times this month", "wow, these world-famous and highly respected wrestlers are being wasted or used as meat puppets to express a corporate opinion", or "but why would that wrestler even do that?", or "wait, did I skip a chapter? wasn't this other thing supposed to happen?". It's impossible to maintain suspension of disbelief when the entire show is screaming at you, at full volume, "THIS IS A FICTIONAL SHOW RUN BY A CORPORATION AND WRITTEN BY SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO WRITE STORIES, YOU WILL SIT THERE AND CONSUME IT, YOUR ENJOYMENT IS IRRELEVANT, JUST KEEP GIVING US MONEY AND PROMOTING OUR BRAND BECAUSE WE'RE AWESOME".
Hm. Slightly more brain-dumpy than I had in mind, I just don't know how to express it any more, just the whole company's been stuck on this treadmill for 15 years and I don't understand why they don't get off it and try something else, given decreasing audiences, it's utterly baffling. (Well, ok, it's money, but sucking down swimming pools of cash can't last forever with rapidly decreasing audiences - take a tip from WCW, don't let your fans just walk away and leave forever.)
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Oct 23, 2019 11:08:48 GMT -5
This is the least offensive anyone has been with any sort of similar message lately. So there's that at least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 11:14:30 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not arm chair directing when the shows bore you so much that you begin to fall asleep watching them. I'll stick to NXT/AEW on Wednesday nights I don't know if you were exaggerating or not, but the last couple of times I have tried to watch WWE, I literally fell asleep. Yet somehow on Wednesday night I have no problem staying up until 2 am. I watch AEW, then DVR'd NXT, then come on here and talk about it because I'm so excited, then sit and watch YouTube videos of people reviewing the shows.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Oct 23, 2019 11:16:54 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not arm chair directing when the shows bore you so much that you begin to fall asleep watching them. I'll stick to NXT/AEW on Wednesday nights I don't know if you were exaggerating or not, but the last couple of times I have tried to watch WWE, I literally fell asleep. Yet somehow on Wednesday night I have no problem staying up until 2 am. I watch AEW, then DVR'd NXT, then come on here and talk about it because I'm so excited, then sit and watch YouTube videos of people reviewing the shows. No, seriously. I fell asleep Friday trying to watch Smackdown. Just can't hook me at all.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 23, 2019 11:25:59 GMT -5
This is the thing really. There is a difference between being a fan that nitpick and a fan that just doesn't want their intelligence insulted. In a sense Show is right - sit back and enjoy it! Or stop watching. A lot of folks like that option. Seems like the most vocal fans don't stop watching though which is just weird. I can get people saying "nah this is how you should do it" and then they just tune out like a lot of fans are. The ones who are still watching these days fully having the company say this to them and they still have a problem with it? I'm like, what will it take for you to stop watching? That's how the company as a whole feels I'm sure. A lot are tuning out but they're probably wondering why those who are still tuned in still watch fully voicing their discrepancies. I can stand behind the hate watch thing. Until WWE reached a point ethically that I had to stop, I got a lot out of watching it just to shit on it. But you are right that there is a subsection of fans that keep watching and keep getting vocally angry on social media. And WWE definitely has this worse than most industries, but it's definitely letting a vocal minority control the discourse when guys criticise fan response like this. WWE actually seems to have a growing vocal fanbase of hate watchers (or rather more loyalists are switching alignment) but this is why really they ought to be criticising their own shit rather than the fans for not liking it. If they just said 'we make the show we want to make, if you don't like it that sucks, but it is our art to make how we please.' then maybe I would have more time for it. But they all end up burping up the same stuff about just enjoying the show. As if enjoying is a choice???
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