Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 11:38:05 GMT -5
Seems like the most vocal fans don't stop watching though which is just weird. I can get people saying "nah this is how you should do it" and then they just tune out like a lot of fans are. The ones who are still watching these days fully having the company say this to them and they still have a problem with it? I'm like, what will it take for you to stop watching? That's how the company as a whole feels I'm sure. A lot are tuning out but they're probably wondering why those who are still tuned in still watch fully voicing their discrepancies. I can stand behind the hate watch thing. Until WWE reached a point ethically that I had to stop, I got a lot out of watching it just to shit on it. But you are right that there is a subsection of fans that keep watching and keep getting vocally angry on social media. And WWE definitely has this worse than most industries, but it's definitely letting a vocal minority control the discourse when guys criticise fan response like this. WWE actually seems to have a growing vocal fanbase of hate watchers (or rather more loyalists are switching alignment) but this is why really they ought to be criticising their own shit rather than the fans for not liking it. If they just said 'we make the show we want to make, if you don't like it that sucks, but it is our art to make how we please.' then maybe I would have more time for it. But they all end up burping up the same stuff about just enjoying the show. As if enjoying is a choice??? Yeah that hate-watching thing is bad for everyone's health and it also gives the company a bad idea of what they think works and what doesn't work. For example, a few weeks ago we had that Nattie/Lacey series on Raw and everyone in the Raw thread was clowning it up and down. The ratings breakdown then came out and I forgot who said it (maybe F4W) but one of those matches had one of the highest if not the highest amount of viewers on one Raw show. In the company's eyes, people wanna see Nattie and Lacey together. Those who watch though, they clown it constantly. It's just weird.
|
|
nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
|
Post by nisidhe on Oct 23, 2019 11:39:11 GMT -5
I can't help but notice that most of those WWE superstars making the effort to defend WWE, and exhorting fans simply to watch and enjoy it without criticism, are of the same crew that's been with WWE for most of, if not all of their careers. They're also those with histories of making trouble for the company or whose value to the company has been questioned during their careers.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,911
|
Post by Dub H on Oct 23, 2019 11:44:06 GMT -5
I want to bring attention to this guy You might not know him, because he has 0% to do with wrestling. But he is Mark Rosewater , Lead Designer and public figure of Magic: The Gathering.The game full of nerds of all kinds. And no one complains as much as nerds. And he gets ALL of it,even things he has no control over because he is the public figure.He gets a bunch of feedback/critic and even angry dudes. You know what he says about people that often critic and talk about what to do?(Paraphrasing) "It is great that people give these answers because it means they are passionate about our product. It means it comes from a place of love for it."Same thing here. Fans talk so much BECAUSE THEY LOVE WRESTLING,THEY LOVE(D) WWE. And you go and dare to tell your fans to quit being passionate?To sit down and take it as it is? Bugger off.
|
|
|
Post by Macho Pichu on Oct 23, 2019 11:55:23 GMT -5
I only ever watched WWE because wrestling is ideally viewed on live television and it was, until this month, the only way to get that for the past 18 years. There are plenty of fans who are not old enough to remember a time when it wasn't the only way. The problem is, that fans arent happy with their constant undermining of their own concepts and denial that they're doing anything wrong, despite bleeding veiwers and facing mountains of criticism from the ones they somehow still have. Its really time to let go of this "fans are entitled" mentality and actually listen to what people want. Ive been skipping a lot of WWE shows lately for these reasons. I'm getting everything that I want from wrestling in AEW right now and not from WWE, and that's partially because AEW puts on good shows, but also because Vince McMahon refuses to let go of his Principal Skinner mentality.
|
|
Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,348
|
Post by Spider2024 on Oct 23, 2019 12:03:40 GMT -5
I want to bring attention to this guy You might not know him, because he has 0% to do with wrestling. But he is Mark Rosewater , Lead Designer and public figure of Magic: The Gathering.The game full of nerds of all kinds. And no one complains as much as nerds. And he gets ALL of it,even things he has no control over because he is the public figure.He gets a bunch of feedback/critic and even angry dudes. You know what he says about people that often critic and talk about what to do?(Paraphrasing) "It is great that people give these answers because it means they are passionate about our product. It means it comes from a place of love for it."Same thing here. Fans talk so much BECAUSE THEY LOVE WRESTLING,THEY LOVE(D) WWE. And you go and dare to tell your fans to quit being passionate?To sit down and take it as it is? Bugger off. Good on him. Honestly, it should be easier for anyone in the world (especially entertainers and anyone part of running a business) to flat out not say negative things. It's the old axiom "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Fine, sugarcoat it, spin it in a positive way, give partial statements with only the good stuff left into what you really wanted to say, even flat out lie through your teeth with kind words. It doesn't even matter if any of that paraphrase quote from Mark Rosewater was 100% genuine or not, him saying it was 100% best for business. Just don't say so much intentional negativity to your own fans, who like your stuff and support you financially by choice I might add. Even if WWE has been king of wrestling for a long time, it's not the only form of entertainment. Even the largest of wrestling fans still hold interest in other things. In fact I dare say, the downturn of WWE in the mid-2000s helped UFC gain some fanbase around that time. Sure, speaking negative words isn't 100% avoidable for anyone, but like I said, it seems easier for some people/companies to remember that no one particularly likes negative words towards them. No one likes blame either. Specifically no one likes blame. And no, it ain't exactly great to fire back negative words & blame back to any fans who give it to you. You're no angel either, two wrongs don't make a right.
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 23, 2019 12:43:43 GMT -5
WWE: Stop hating the show!
Also WWE: ACK! Ratings and attendance are plummeting! Please come back!
|
|
ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
|
Post by ssdrivin on Oct 23, 2019 12:45:59 GMT -5
I want to bring attention to this guy You might not know him, because he has 0% to do with wrestling. But he is Mark Rosewater , Lead Designer and public figure of Magic: The Gathering.The game full of nerds of all kinds. And no one complains as much as nerds. And he gets ALL of it,even things he has no control over because he is the public figure.He gets a bunch of feedback/critic and even angry dudes. You know what he says about people that often critic and talk about what to do?(Paraphrasing) "It is great that people give these answers because it means they are passionate about our product. It means it comes from a place of love for it."Same thing here. Fans talk so much BECAUSE THEY LOVE WRESTLING,THEY LOVE(D) WWE. And you go and dare to tell your fans to quit being passionate?To sit down and take it as it is? Bugger off. Good on him. Honestly, it should be easier for anyone in the world (especially entertainers and anyone part of running a business) to flat out not say negative things. It's the old axiom "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Fine, sugarcoat it, spin it in a positive way, give partial statements with only the good stuff left into what you really wanted to say, even flat out lie through your teeth with kind words. It doesn't even matter if any of that paraphrase quote from Mark Rosewater was 100% genuine or not, him saying it was 100% best for business. Just don't say so much intentional negativity to your own fans, who like your stuff and support you financially by choice I might add. Even if WWE has been king of wrestling for a long time, it's not the only form of entertainment. Even the largest of wrestling fans still hold interest in other things. In fact I dare say, the downturn of WWE in the mid-2000s helped UFC gain some fanbase around that time. Sure, speaking negative words isn't 100% avoidable for anyone, but like I said, it seems easier for some people/companies to remember that no one particularly likes negative words towards them. No one likes blame either. Specifically no one likes blame. And no, it ain't exactly great to fire back negative words & blame back to any fans who give it to you. You're no angel either, two wrongs don't make a right.
Trouble is, WWE seem to find it so very difficult to sound even remotely sincere, non-combative, or like they're not saying a nice thing through gritted teeth just for the PR, and they've lost so much goodwill through doing that and generally making a lousy product. As a result, I don't know if half-truths, filtered statements, and compliment sandwiches work any more. Nobody believes they actually mean anything they say because they never back it up, it's all lip service and soundbites.
Some of the talent, the ones who haven't acted like jerks or Vince mouthpieces, can still just about carry it off - Roman, for example, despite the hate for his inorganic superman push, he comes across as genuinely diplomatic, likeable, personable, and as though he's trying to voice a genuine balance of his own personal take on the situation against knowing he can't just go out there and firehose the product he's employed to help create with a torrent of criticism, even if he knows some of the fans really do have a valid perspective.
But as a whole, and especially for those who are almost always in full PR mode (Steph, for example), that's not the case and probably rightly so. People are sick of WWE's corporate whitewashing and constant false pretense that WWE is an awesome company where everything is just fine and that there are "a few vocal fans" who have weird outlying opinions. Every time they promise to make things right, or they express acknowledgement of the fans' issues with the shows, they either fail to follow up with action, immediately backtrack, or speak about it as though they know better than the fans what the fans really want. Throw in the campaigns they've had for various causes, some more or less respectable than others (anti-bullying? good / trying to mobilise a fanbase for the company's political gain? bad), wherein they bleat about how infallibly altruistic and wholesome they are and it adds to the impression that they're just so self-serving and hollow. Like they're wearing this uncanny valley facade; people sense that it's PR bullshit because WWE are two-faced hypocrites, they're liars, they're insincere, they make barbed comments about perfectly legitimate complaints, and their inaction proves they don't genuinely care at all.
|
|
Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
|
Post by Chainsaw on Oct 23, 2019 13:13:18 GMT -5
No.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 23, 2019 13:19:36 GMT -5
These people are so indoctrinated with this nonsense it's pointless asking them. It's a bad, boring show; stop trying to tell me what I'm missing.
|
|
dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,477
|
Post by dpg on Oct 23, 2019 13:34:09 GMT -5
It's the usual WWE wrestler reply to criticism, that you shouldn't do it because you haven't wrestled/don't know what you're talking about/ don't know how hard it is etc. Not surprising at this point.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Oct 23, 2019 13:35:45 GMT -5
I directed myself away from watching.
|
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,299
|
Post by Fade on Oct 23, 2019 14:06:31 GMT -5
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,144
|
Post by fw91 on Oct 23, 2019 14:09:51 GMT -5
^ That said... I know that other posters have asked this before, but I think it should be repeated here: is there any other company that actively hates it's fan base as much as WWE? ...nope. The only other companies that come close are... any other wrestling company. And the New York Knicks
|
|
Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
|
Post by Pushed to the Moon on Oct 23, 2019 14:17:26 GMT -5
Someone needs to get a poster with that old Bill Gates quote on it and hang it in every locker room/office/writers room. "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning."
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,144
|
Post by fw91 on Oct 23, 2019 14:17:40 GMT -5
Thing is, I think we’re making Show’s words more than they actually are. I don’t think he’s saying “you’re wrong for disliking the show” but more of “if you’re watching just to negatively critique, you’ll never come around.”
having said that, I don’t think he was offensive in anyway, but after a certain age fans don’t watch to just enjoy it. Being “in” on it all makes it all the more fun and when you reach that point, sitting in the metaphorical director’s chair is kind of a conditioned response.
|
|
|
Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Oct 23, 2019 15:59:16 GMT -5
I feel I’m cut WWE a lot of slack. I’m patient as all hell with them, and I probably go lighter on them then 90% of the people on this board because I usually enjoy the product, even when it’s weak. But I’m completely checked out of The main roster right now, it’s boring, repetitive and hardly ever the slightest bit satisfying to watch right now.
So, I’ve stopped watching. I just can’t be bothered to care right now, which is pretty sad. I should be one of the hardest fans to run off, and here we are. Even reading the results usually leaves me shaking my head because they just sound so f***ing lame.
There is a serious, systematic problem in WWE. It’s not the fans, and not caused by the fans, it’s that the onscreen product just isn’t the least bit interesting right now and Vince either doesn’t see it, doesn’t care or has no f***ing clue what to do. A top to bottom change of the product is needed right now, and I just don’t see it on the horizon.
I’m a firm believer that WWE should NOT just give the fans everything they want, but they’ve completely lost the ability to convince the fans what they’re giving them is what they want. Which, really, is the key to promoting. Couldn’t tell you how many MMA fights looked lame as hell on paper, then you see a kickass trailer or poster or preview show and suddenly you’re absolutely jacked for the fight. WWE has completely lost the ability to do that.
|
|
Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
|
Post by Blindkarevik on Oct 23, 2019 16:02:59 GMT -5
Anytime someone says something like this, it sounds like "Yeah... we know the show sucks, but we have no idea what to do about it."
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Oct 23, 2019 16:05:33 GMT -5
I already stopped watching WWE in favor of wrestling shows I actually like. So nah, I'm straight Paul.
|
|
|
Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Oct 23, 2019 16:20:51 GMT -5
I see it like this. If I’m a football fan my whole life, and whoever’s deciding the rules keep making the game boring and shitty and hard to sit thru, I’m gonna complain. I don’t WANT to stop watching, I love watching, but I want it to go back to being interesting. If things are happening in the NFL that are actively pissing fans off and making them stop watching, I guarantee you there would be changes.
Sadly, the NFL is run on the whims of a crazy old man, so they would likely solve fan complaints, while we’re stuck with “shut up and enjoy” or “stop watching.”
That’s why I only watch wrestling on Tuesday and Wednesday now.
|
|
|
Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Oct 23, 2019 16:39:02 GMT -5
If I have to try as hard as I can to shut my brain off to enjoy something then why would I want to watch it when I can watch something that actually gets me invested
W H Y
|
|