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Post by autisticgeordie on Oct 27, 2019 12:10:12 GMT -5
I remember seeing Captain Marvel and genuinely loving it, I think Brie Larson did a very good job and she had great chemistry with Samuel L. Jackson (but then again, he is amazing at everything that he does.) and then I remember hearing people complaining about how Captain Marvel is 'Feminist propaganda' and how it was 'SJW bullshit'.
I know to ignore these people, and I did...but what is it about showing a woman being badass that has these insecure dudebros frothing at the mouth? I mean, think of all the movies that show men being awesome and saving the day...but a female does the same thing and all of a sudden it's the end of the world?
Honestly, and this is just my personal theory, a lot of these complaints about movies showing women as the main character and doing awesome shit come from people who have an outdated 'stay in the kitchen' mentality?
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DragonMasterP
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Post by DragonMasterP on Oct 27, 2019 12:14:40 GMT -5
Ego, mostly.
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Post by autisticgeordie on Oct 27, 2019 12:15:40 GMT -5
So they're just jealous that a woman is doing kickass shit instead of a guy? Yeah, that seems on-brand for those types of people.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 27, 2019 12:16:18 GMT -5
Toxic masculinity.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Oct 27, 2019 12:19:20 GMT -5
Fragile male ego.
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 27, 2019 12:20:57 GMT -5
The answer largely depends on whom you talk to. Some will say the empowered woman are no problem, but that when that's the only significant factor of the personality, then it simply becomes shallow pandering rather than genuine exploration of character. Others will suggest that it does not matter what their personality or context they're presented in, there will simply be a group of individuals upset at it simply for being a woman front and center and presented as non-submissive.
To me above all else, you have to remember the grifting factor; there are people online with a vested interest in loudly bellowing about movies like Captain America because they get attention on their platform and those with a vested interest in amplifying such voices front and center to condemn them because it gets clicks/views on their platform. Whether or not either party even means what they're saying or even how significant any claims being made are, eventually becomes irrelevant in online business model that feeds on going to the top shelf with their opinion pieces/theories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 12:22:40 GMT -5
Because they hate empowered women.
An excellent example off the top of my head is a Captain Marvel video (made before the movie actually came out) I've seen secondhand where the guy (who routinely says a lot of OTHER stupid bullshit as well but I'll pass on going into that here) said that they were doing it all wrong because female superheroes only exist for teenagers and incels to masturbate to.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Oct 27, 2019 12:26:01 GMT -5
Because they do a piss poor job at showing it and the female comes off as an entitled bitch instead in 90% of them.
Lone exceptions being Leia in the original Trilogy.
You tell the audience that "She's strong, She's awesome, She's hot, She doesn't need a man for anything" over and over hours straight and they might get sick of hearing it.
Look at Batwoman
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Post by thechase on Oct 27, 2019 12:29:48 GMT -5
Captain Marvel is crap. Deep down, I think everyone knows it's crap but they choose never to side against the Mouse and Marvel just because it validates their nerdom.
Anyone thinking people with legit criticisms over blatantly forced cultural appropriation and the shameful undermining of men in these movies have a "fragile ego" and "insecure" about this are themselves the insecure ones.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 12:32:03 GMT -5
there will simply be a group of individuals upset at it simply for being a woman front and center and presented as non-submissive. One complaint I saw for Captain Marvel was someone complaining about how there was a scene where Nick Fury was washing dishes despite having a woman there in the scene who should've been doing them, just going on and on about how weak this makes him look. Yeah, for the record I didn't even actively take notice of the fact that's what he was doing in that scene.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 12:33:22 GMT -5
Captain Marvel is crap. Deep down, I think everyone knows it's crap but they choose never to side against the Mouse and Marvel. Okay, real quick, some of my opinions here. I've never seen the Ant-Man movies and I'm not going to. Homecoming is a plotless awful mess where no one is likable. Age of Ultron sucked. Winter Soldier is f***ing boring. Iron Man 2 is a giant commercial where the main villain is somehow completely irrelevant to the actual plot. Ragnarok is two movies Frankensteined together that is terrified to ever let a scene end on a serious note. All of those are still better than The Dark World. I liked Captain Marvel quite a bit.
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Post by autisticgeordie on Oct 27, 2019 12:35:00 GMT -5
Captain Marvel is crap. Deep down, I think everyone knows it's crap but they choose never to side against the Mouse and Marvel. Okay, real quick, some of my opinions here. I've never seen the Ant-Man movies and I'm not going to. Homecoming is a plotless awful mess where no one is likable. Age of Ultron sucked. Winter Soldier is f***ing boring. Iron Man 2 is a giant commercial where the main villain is somehow completely irrelevant to the actual plot. I liked Captain Marvel quite a bit. The most likeable one in Homecoming was The Vulture, because at least he was doing what he was doing for his family, as I imagine anyone would given his position?
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Post by thechase on Oct 27, 2019 12:37:44 GMT -5
Because they hate empowered women. Because they hate badly written/produced/acted movies that hammer home a forced empowerment agenda with all the subtley of a brick all while taking jabs at the male gender, and not in harmless, deprecating ways, but outright toxic ones. I'm a fan of Linda Hamilton and enjoyed Terminator Dark Fate, it was well made and a pacy action/adventure survival flick with only one issue I took exception with, something that took a swing at the significance of motherhood.
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 27, 2019 12:38:01 GMT -5
there will simply be a group of individuals upset at it simply for being a woman front and center and presented as non-submissive. One complaint I saw for Captain Marvel was someone complaining about how there was a scene where Nick Fury was washing dishes despite having a woman there in the scene who should've been doing them, just going on and on about how weak this makes him look. Yeah, for the record I didn't even actively take notice of the fact that's what he was doing in that scene. Something like that is just a clear example of personal outlook completely overriding common sense and even basic observation of characters. Forget the gender issue at all, maybe Fury is someone who simply prefers to do his own dishes? It would be trying to infer some societal/psychological symbolism of Black Widow not often using a melee weapon in combat. Its completely absurd.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 27, 2019 12:38:58 GMT -5
Captain Marvel is crap. Deep down, I think everyone knows it's crap but they choose never to side against the Mouse and Marvel just because it validates their nerdom. Anyone thinking people with legit criticisms over blatantly forced cultural appropriation and the shameful undermining of men in these movies have a "fragile ego" and "insecure" about this are themselves the insecure ones. Exhibit A.
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Post by thechase on Oct 27, 2019 12:42:55 GMT -5
Because they do a piss poor job at showing it and the female comes off as an entitled bitch instead in 90% of them. This man speaks the truth. As for the 'exhibit A' comment...typical insecure snark, and proves my point entirely.
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Post by realist on Oct 27, 2019 12:43:21 GMT -5
For me personally, I don't hate movies that show empowered women. I just think that Hollywood portrays it poorly sometimes. I think it is a bit too heavy handed many times. I prefer "this character is a badass who happens to be female" (Sarah Connor in T2; Wonder Woman) to "this character is a badass because she is a female (Captain Marvel). I don't really care what gender a movie character is as long as the story is told in an entertaining way.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 12:44:46 GMT -5
Every single of 'em are great, if not perfect as character in some movie/series, there's always the cosplays. I freakin' love Lucy Lawless. She was as hot as ever in Ash vs. Evil Dead!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 12:45:35 GMT -5
I don't hate empowered women.
But woo boy, do I hate the assumption that I must hate a female character because I don't like empowered women. Do I ever hate how "dudebro" has become a go to insult. In general, I hate how comfortable we are just whole ass insulting men all the time and then wonder why they have trouble expressing themselves. I didn't like Captain Marvel because I found the lead completely unlikeable, didn't like how it ruined Fury's mystique for me (And not because of the dishes thing, he's just more interesting if you keep him mysterious) and thought the villains were super bland.
This question is almost never asked in good faith and that's what annoys me. It's really irritating being accused of being sexist very often just because I don't like a movie.
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Post by thechase on Oct 27, 2019 12:46:02 GMT -5
Every single of 'em are great, if not perfect as character in some movie/series, there's always the cosplays. I freakin' love Lucy Lawless. She was as hot as ever in Ash vs. Evil Dead! Buffy and Relic Hunter spring to mind too.
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