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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 27, 2019 21:23:31 GMT -5
I see it as part of a,wider backlash against what the neckbeards see as SJWs. A woman or minority is the lead, they decide its SJW pandering and so immediately rage on it. Hardly even that. Mark Ruffalo and Chris Evans are practically the poster boys for "SJW Hollywood", passionately supporting a wide range of social justice campaigns, yet there's nobody making videos about them or trying to organise boycotts of their movies. When Brie Larson was cast in Captain Marvel, it didn't provoke any strong feelings one way or the other. Then she gave an interview in which she said she'd rather hear how a movie she made about young women of colour was received by young women of colour than hear from middle-aged white men and all of a sudden the torches and pitchforks were out.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 22:02:41 GMT -5
I love how we're just totally fine with gendered insults when it's against men.
We can just throw out "neckbeard" or "dudebro" all day long and nobody cares.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is this just okay? How is it alright to just casually use gendered insults against men like this so consistently and no one says ANYTHING about it?
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Post by Starshine on Oct 27, 2019 22:06:58 GMT -5
I'm fine with empowered women in lead roles. Like, I keep looking around but I'm not seeing where, as a white man, I'm demeaned all that much, if anywhere.
Captain Marvel was a middle of the road Marvel movie, that's about it. Brie's whole deal with the male reviewer thing may have spurred some insecure men's wrath, but I can't pretend to care even a little. Maybe she shouldn't have said it the way she did, but anyone who's still fuming over that should really try to get some real perspective. If you seriously think men are being held down, go outside and really look around you. It's a nonsense stance to take.
I only get annoyed when a franchise doubles down to use that backlash as a cynical marketing camping (ala Ghostbusters 2016). Just ignore these goofs, you're not winning points by actively trying to antagonise them for some manufactured controversy.
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Spider2024
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Post by Spider2024 on Oct 27, 2019 22:20:18 GMT -5
I love how we're just totally fine with gendered insults when it's against men. We can just throw out "neckbeard" or "dudebro" all day long and nobody cares. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is this just okay? How is it alright to just casually use gendered insults against men like this so consistently and no one says ANYTHING about it? This has bothered me too. I've since come to the conclusion that it's only a small percentage of women who do this, fueled by a combination of anger & justification that they're 'doing the right thing' by yelling anger. They'll say it's for the sake of true equality, but when it comes from a place of anger, then it's NOT really for the sake of true equality, it's for the sake of "I want to be right!" Then there's another percentage of groups (on all sides) who go along with it as sort of a 'grandstanding/whiteknighting' move. It ain't right neither, but if they speak up and say the wrong thing, they run the risk of being incorrectly called sexist. It's just the contentious world we live in today. No one really wants a conversation. Everyone wants a 'one way conversation' I guess you could say, where they shout their opinion and as long as they feel right, they good. I believe you're good and non-bigoted. The good & honestly non-bigoted person should feel good that they're doing the right thing, despite any given angry person telling them otherwise.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 27, 2019 22:44:56 GMT -5
I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was mediocre but because of the writing. The women who starred in it made it a lot more palatable than it would've been otherwise. And it's better than GB2, which was just bad outside of that one guy yelling "VIGO!" being something of a proto-meme.
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Post by Cela on Oct 27, 2019 23:05:35 GMT -5
Hell, I'll bite. Because we've seen it before. And it's annoyingly pandering stuff we've seen many times before.
Take Captain Marvel for instance. A villain who tells her she needs to calm her emotions and smile more. And she is a hero despite all sorts of MEN telling her she's just a GIRL! *Cue No Doubt*
And weirdly enough, Hollywood always seems stuck going back to the same well of motivations.
Compare the motivations for male heroes.
Iron Man is constantly on edge because his efforts to save the world end up putting the people he cares about in danger. Thor is stuck between trying to save a family member who is constantly trying to kill him, while struggling with if he is worthy of his power. Captain America is a soldier from a different time reconciling his patriotism with a government that is not as virtuous as he hoped.
This is not to say that there are not good female led action movies out there. But a great deal of them just seem to lean into #GirlBoss rather than create interesting characters.
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Post by Glitch on Oct 27, 2019 23:19:02 GMT -5
I love how we're just totally fine with gendered insults when it's against men. We can just throw out "neckbeard" or "dudebro" all day long and nobody cares. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is this just okay? How is it alright to just casually use gendered insults against men like this so consistently and no one says ANYTHING about it? Because these refer to very specific men. They are not catch all insults you throw to any man you're mad at. When they are used as insults, they imply that the person is a man who thinks very little of women as people. They do not imply that you are bad for being a man.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 23:22:50 GMT -5
I love how we're just totally fine with gendered insults when it's against men. We can just throw out "neckbeard" or "dudebro" all day long and nobody cares. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is this just okay? How is it alright to just casually use gendered insults against men like this so consistently and no one says ANYTHING about it? Because these refer to very specific men. They are not catch all insults you throw to any man you're mad at. When they are used as insults, they imply that the person is a man who thinks very little of women as people. They do not imply that you are bad for being a man. "I don't mean women like you" is the exact same frantic backpedal men do when they use abusive language on women. "I mean a very specific type of gay dude" is the dodge homophobic people use when the talk about being uncomfortable with a certain slur.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Oct 27, 2019 23:39:28 GMT -5
I love how we're just totally fine with gendered insults when it's against men. We can just throw out "neckbeard" or "dudebro" all day long and nobody cares. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is this just okay? How is it alright to just casually use gendered insults against men like this so consistently and no one says ANYTHING about it? There are a lot of hateful and angry people out there. I guess it’s their way of lashing out. I’ve had someone follow me around for weeks liking any post that disagreed with my opinion. Using vague insults or trying to use likes as a form of protest is all they can do. It just reveals how petty and hateful some people can be. I’m not a hateful person so it doesn’t phase me but that’s just how some people are. They’ll act out within the boundaries established. It would make a nicer more welcoming environment if such insults were reigned in but I don’t see that kind of change happening here. I’d be on your side to get rid of those types of insults but I think there wouldn’t be too much support for your cause. I say that because I’ve seen posts like yours before and they tend to get ignored. Haters gonna hate, I guess.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 27, 2019 23:41:09 GMT -5
Because these refer to very specific men. They are not catch all insults you throw to any man you're mad at. When they are used as insults, they imply that the person is a man who thinks very little of women as people. They do not imply that you are bad for being a man. "I don't mean women like you" is the exact same frantic backpedal men do when they use abusive language on women. "I mean a very specific type of gay dude" is the dodge homophobic people use when the talk about being uncomfortable with a certain slur. Theres a bit of a difference between insulting someone for being gay and insulting someone for being a pathetic, manchild with bad hygiene who gets angry over tv shows and movies.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 23:43:28 GMT -5
"I don't mean women like you" is the exact same frantic backpedal men do when they use abusive language on women. "I mean a very specific type of gay dude" is the dodge homophobic people use when the talk about being uncomfortable with a certain slur. Theres a bit of a difference between insulting someone for being gay and insulting someone for being a pathetic, manchild with bad hygiene who gets angry over tv shows and movies. Obviously. I'm not equating the two. I'm saying that neckbeard is cast with a wide net toward anyone you decide to target with it, regardless of whether or not you know their reasons - as we've seen multiple times in this very thread - as an insult to belittle people different than you and, like countless other insults we are smart enough to see through, it comes with it's own built in dodge everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/neckbeard-cartoon/
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 27, 2019 23:49:46 GMT -5
Theres a bit of a difference between insulting someone for being gay and insulting someone for being a pathetic, manchild with bad hygiene who gets angry over tv shows and movies. Obviously. I'm not equating the two. I'm saying that neckbeard is cast with a white net toward anyone you decide to target with it, regardless of whether or not you know their reasons - as we've seen multiple times in this very thread - as an insult to belittle people different than you and, like countless other insults we are smart enough to see through, it comes with it's own built in dodge I wouldnt say it is. Its rather a specific insult towards a specific type of person. Namely the type of person who harrasses actresses on Twitter because they dont like their character or review bombs a movie because the lead is a feminist. It's not insulting people different than me. It's insulting a specific type of person.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Oct 28, 2019 0:21:06 GMT -5
Because these refer to very specific men. They are not catch all insults you throw to any man you're mad at. When they are used as insults, they imply that the person is a man who thinks very little of women as people. They do not imply that you are bad for being a man. "I don't mean women like you" is the exact same frantic backpedal men do when they use abusive language on women. "I mean a very specific type of gay dude" is the dodge homophobic people use when the talk about being uncomfortable with a certain slur. The words prima donna and diva are female centric and sometimes used as insults. The difference between those and words used as slurs against women is that prima donna and diva don't just mean women. They specifically mean someone who is stuck up and snooty. Same with dudebro and neckbeard. They refer to a very specific type of man. They are not the male equivalent of calling a women the word that rhymes with snitch.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Oct 28, 2019 0:51:05 GMT -5
Yeah I didn’t hear a lot of these complaints with Wonder Woman or mad max fury road
I’m pretty sure a lot of it was because
They don’t like Brie Larson They didn’t like the idea of some random overpowered character show up in the final movie to save the day (which it seemed like) and thought the movie was just some shoehorned thing to explain a new character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 1:14:38 GMT -5
Because they do a piss poor job at showing it and the female comes off as an entitled bitch instead in 90% of them. Lone exceptions being Leia in the original Trilogy. You tell the audience that "She's strong, She's awesome, She's hot, She doesn't need a man for anything" over and over hours straight and they might get sick of hearing it. Look at Batwoman What's wrong with Batwoman? She doesn't "need a man" because she's a lesbian. She does have one in her life that she closely relies on though, Lucas Fox, who makes her weapons and shit. Also, she uses the Batcave and some of Batman's weapons, and says she misses her cousin Bruce. I do agree that the type of character you are complaining about exists, but Batwoman sure doesn't fall into that category, and there are certainly TONS more besides Leia in the original trilogy that are an exception to that.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 28, 2019 1:19:21 GMT -5
Because they do a piss poor job at showing it and the female comes off as an entitled bitch instead in 90% of them. Lone exceptions being Leia in the original Trilogy. You tell the audience that "She's strong, She's awesome, She's hot, She doesn't need a man for anything" over and over hours straight and they might get sick of hearing it. Look at Batwoman What's wrong with Batwoman? She doesn't "need a man" because she's a lesbian. She does have one in her life that she closely relies on though, Lucas Fox, who makes her weapons and shit. Also, she uses the Batcave and some of Batman's weapons, and says she misses her cousin Bruce. I do agree that the type of character you are complaining about exists, but Batwoman sure doesn't fall into that category, and there are certainly TONS more besides Leia in the original trilogy that are an exception to that. People take the one cringy line of dialogue in the pilot about the suit being perfect when it fits a woman and think the entire show is just shoving the "feminist agenda" down their throats. The show also makes no bones about Kate being a really flawed character at this point and it bites her in the ass. A lot.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Oct 28, 2019 1:29:39 GMT -5
Because a lot of nerds on the internet are gatekeepers.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Oct 28, 2019 1:33:38 GMT -5
What's wrong with Batwoman? She doesn't "need a man" because she's a lesbian. She does have one in her life that she closely relies on though, Lucas Fox, who makes her weapons and shit. Also, she uses the Batcave and some of Batman's weapons, and says she misses her cousin Bruce. I do agree that the type of character you are complaining about exists, but Batwoman sure doesn't fall into that category, and there are certainly TONS more besides Leia in the original trilogy that are an exception to that. People take the one cringy line of dialogue in the pilot about the suit being perfect when it fits a woman and think the entire show is just shoving the "feminist agenda" down their throats. The show also makes no bones about Kate being a really flawed character at this point and it bites her in the ass. A lot. Yeah, her flaws cost her a relationship, and people have called her out on her shit in only a few episodes already. And that cringy line was out of context, it made context in the show, because she was talking about how the suit isn't perfect for her to wear, so they need to make it fit a woman. Every character on that show has big flaws that we're not supposed to overlook, except for Lucas and Mary (Kate's step sister). Those two have their shit together.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 28, 2019 1:35:55 GMT -5
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 28, 2019 1:39:55 GMT -5
I keep hearing things from men about how some of these empowered female characters are “pandering”, “forcing an agenda”, or “shoving it down audiences’ throats”.
I think that’s ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as them not just choosing to not watch things they don’t like. There’s nothing requiring them to watch Batwoman or Captain Marvel. There is so much stuff being produced now that keeping up with it all is impossible. If they really hate this stuff watch something else.
Not every single new thing is aimed squarely at them anymore. Plenty of stuff still is. Deal with it.
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