Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternally Confused
Posts: 13,481
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Post by Malcolm on Oct 28, 2019 1:42:53 GMT -5
The real threat to masculinity isn't empowered women or minorities or SJWs.
It's other, whinier, entitled men.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 28, 2019 1:43:20 GMT -5
People take the one cringy line of dialogue in the pilot about the suit being perfect when it fits a woman and think the entire show is just shoving the "feminist agenda" down their throats. The show also makes no bones about Kate being a really flawed character at this point and it bites her in the ass. A lot. Yeah, her flaws cost her a relationship, and people have called her out on her shit in only a few episodes already. And that cringy line was out of context, it made context in the show, because she was talking about how the suit isn't perfect for her to wear, so they need to make it fit a woman. Every character on that show has big flaws that we're not supposed to overlook, except for Lucas and Mary (Kate's step sister). Those two have their shit together. That's very true. In context, when she says that line, she doesn't mean it in a "I'm doing this for all my sisters! #GirlBoss" way. She means it in a "and by a woman, I mean me. It'll be perfect when it fits me. I'm rooting for me." way. Her growing pains remind me a lot of Oliver's during the first couple of seasons of Arrow, and Kate doesn't have the benefit of training from the League of Assassins.
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Heartbreaker
King Koopa
Is actually Bindi Irwin
RIP Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™ (2022 - 2022)
Posts: 11,846
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Post by Heartbreaker on Oct 28, 2019 1:44:02 GMT -5
Captain Marvel and Ghostbusters 2016 were extremely average movies and they get so much f***ing drama.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 28, 2019 1:49:32 GMT -5
I keep hearing things from men about how some of these empowered female characters are “pandering”, “forcing an agenda”, or “shoving it down audiences’ throats”. I think that’s ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as them not just choosing to not watch things they don’t like. There’s nothing requiring them to watch Batwoman or Captain Marvel. There is so much stuff being produced now that keeping up with it all is impossible. If they really hate this stuff watch something else. Not every single new thing is aimed squarely at them anymore. Plenty of stuff still is. Deal with it. This was summed up perfectly a while back when people reacted to The Mandalorian trailer by calling it "real Star Wars."
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Post by Hurbster on Oct 28, 2019 2:43:58 GMT -5
I'm just against shit films and TV shows.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,790
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Post by hassanchop on Oct 28, 2019 3:29:28 GMT -5
The real threat to masculinity isn't empowered women or minorities or SJWs. It's social media. Fixed
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Post by James Fabiano on Oct 28, 2019 7:10:33 GMT -5
I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was mediocre but because of the writing. The women who starred in it made it a lot more palatable than it would've been otherwise. And it's better than GB2, which was just bad outside of that one guy yelling "VIGO!" being something of a proto-meme. So you're one of the kids who preferred He-Man in 1989, then? ;-) Yeah, I didn't accept GB16 for just being a mediocre, yet another unneeded remake/reboot/sequel/cashgrab. Didn't Feig introduce the idea of "Oh you don't like it cause they're all women" when responding to negative reactions? Which started WW...can't even say WW3 cause I'm sure we had more than a few if you're counting internet conflicts.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,471
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Oct 28, 2019 11:46:46 GMT -5
The real threat to masculinity isn't empowered women or minorities or SJWs. It's social media. Fixed Please. What social media does is to provide an anonymous platform for pathetic opinions, not create said opinions.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,685
Member is Online
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Post by Kalmia on Oct 28, 2019 11:47:08 GMT -5
I keep hearing things from men about how some of these empowered female characters are “pandering”, “forcing an agenda”, or “shoving it down audiences’ throats”. I think that’s ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as them not just choosing to not watch things they don’t like. There’s nothing requiring them to watch Batwoman or Captain Marvel. There is so much stuff being produced now that keeping up with it all is impossible. If they really hate this stuff watch something else. Not every single new thing is aimed squarely at them anymore. Plenty of stuff still is. Deal with it. This was summed up perfectly a while back when people reacted to The Mandalorian trailer by calling it "real Star Wars." Oh, that response about not recognising pandering when it panders to you is perfect. I might steal that! I'm a woman, and when I see another big action movie with a cool male lead that wins the day and gets the girl, I just don't watch it. It's a boring cliche and not for me. I don't spend my time loudly complaining on social media and harassing the actors/creators. And don't even get me started on Star Wars. I love all Star Wars, but it's always suffered from overpowered central characters. I don't want to stir that hornet's nest again, but if you accept 10 year old Anakin Skywalker winning a podrace when no human has even completed one before but you're angry at anything Rey has done, then I don't know what to tell you.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 28, 2019 11:54:43 GMT -5
"Nobody complained with Wonder Woman"
So am I the only person remembering the constant "eat a burger" comments because Gal Gadot didn't look like a massively disproportioned Amazon IRL?
It calmed down once the movie was out because of the shock of DC not releasing a flaming turd for once, but it did not get off scof free.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Oct 28, 2019 11:54:50 GMT -5
I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was mediocre but because of the writing. The women who starred in it made it a lot more palatable than it would've been otherwise. And it's better than GB2, which was just bad outside of that one guy yelling "VIGO!" being something of a proto-meme. So you're one of the kids who preferred He-Man in 1989, then? ;-) Yeah, I didn't accept GB16 for just being a mediocre, yet another unneeded remake/reboot/sequel/cashgrab. Didn't Feig introduce the idea of "Oh you don't like it cause they're all women" when responding to negative reactions? Which started WW...can't even say WW3 cause I'm sure we had more than a few if you're counting internet conflicts. Feig was very antagonistic/defensive against detractors of the film. I vividly remember that.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Oct 28, 2019 12:00:11 GMT -5
I have more of a problem with movies that are supposed to semi exist in a real world where you have the female lead beating up formidable male opponents. The biggest example of this would be Ilsa Faust in Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation, where it was just laughable seeing this chick clean dominate entire rooms of highly trained mercenaries. They toned it down quite a bit for Fallout though, so I'll give them credit for that much. Here's the thing, is it laughable when John Wick does it, for example? He routinely dominates rooms full of assassins who are often bigger and better armed. For that matter I don't hear any complaints when The bride in Kill Bill slaughtered a small army of battle-hardened Yakuza and had enough energy to dual their (also female) leader who was the Brides equal.
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternally Confused
Posts: 13,481
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Post by Malcolm on Oct 28, 2019 12:02:36 GMT -5
The real threat to masculinity isn't empowered women or minorities or SJWs. It's social media. Fixed At first I thought this post was right, but then I thought deeper about it and decided it wasn't
Social Media by itself is just a platform. A tool like a microphone. It by itself isn't a threat to men or masculinity.
The people who use social media? Now that's a whole other story.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,359
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Oct 28, 2019 12:10:40 GMT -5
This was summed up perfectly a while back when people reacted to The Mandalorian trailer by calling it "real Star Wars." Oh, that response about not recognising pandering when it panders to you is perfect. I might steal that! I'm a woman, and when I see another big action movie with a cool male lead that wins the day and gets the girl, I just don't watch it. It's a boring cliche and not for me. I don't spend my time loudly complaining on social media and harassing the actors/creators. And don't even get me started on Star Wars. I love all Star Wars, but it's always suffered from overpowered central characters. I don't want to stir that hornet's nest again, but if you accept 10 year old Anakin Skywalker winning a podrace when no human has even completed one before but you're angry at anything Rey has done, then I don't know what to tell you. To be fair, Anakin never even finished a race before Qui-Gon gave him a few pointers to better utilize his latent Force abilities. Still, it at least wasn’t his first race. The real problem for me about Rey was that there were no real indications that she should be good at most of the things she is good at. The only things shown in her background that she should be good at are mechanics, fighting with a staff, spelunking, and being a polyglot. Luke being a great pilot is easy to take as they drop hints that he is a good brush pilot (though some of the more obvious examples were in cut scenes). Even Anakin has the excuse to have done some flying as he would have needed to do test flights. Rey, despite being a virtual slave much like Anakin literally was, would never have been allowed near a working ship as she, unlike Anakin who had an explosive in his next that prevented him from leaving Tattooine, could have escaped elsewhere has she access to a working ship. I say all of that despite not disliking the character of Rey in general. I just want her story to make sense.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 12:12:48 GMT -5
I think I'm gonna watch the 2017 Wonder Woman tomorrow. Can I expect some "empowering" here what you all are talking about, as I want to see some examples of this? Actress looks pretty hot and the sequel next year sounds promising. I haven't seen Batman vs. Superman either, I should probably see that one too.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 28, 2019 12:38:44 GMT -5
The real problem for me about Rey was that there were no real indications that she should be good at most of the things she is good at. The only things shown in her background that she should be good at are mechanics, fighting with a staff, spelunking, and being a polyglot. Luke being a great pilot is easy to take as they drop hints that he is a good brush pilot (though some of the more obvious examples were in cut scenes). Even Anakin has the excuse to have done some flying as he would have needed to do test flights. Rey, despite being a virtual slave much like Anakin literally was, would never have been allowed near a working ship as she, unlike Anakin who had an explosive in his next that prevented him from leaving Tattooine, could have escaped elsewhere has she access to a working ship. As ever, most of that was crammed into ancillary material released leading up to and around the release of Force Awakens - she's tricked out the AT-AT she was living in with a salvaged Y-Wing flight computer and used the flight simulator to learn how to pilot ships. Probably could've put that in the movie, just a few seconds of her running a flight sim in the dinner scene to drop the hint that she's a good pilot. But yeah, Rey's Survival Guide answers virtually everything addressed by the people who say "We didn't see her train!" because LucasFilm gotta pad out those books and comics (and was released before Force Awakens opened in theatres, so wasn't a response to said critics either).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 12:42:16 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Wonder Woman absolutely caught some shit, in particular I remember people being irritated over the joke in the trailer comparing being a secretary to slavery. It's faded now and it never got quite as vitriolic as Captain Marvel or Star Wars (I still can't even tell what the actual problem with Rey is even supposed to be beyond, "Woman who's overpowered without much explanation," when no one really questions it when that's done with a guy) but it was certainly there.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 28, 2019 12:50:01 GMT -5
I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was mediocre but because of the writing. The women who starred in it made it a lot more palatable than it would've been otherwise. And it's better than GB2, which was just bad outside of that one guy yelling "VIGO!" being something of a proto-meme. So you're one of the kids who preferred He-Man in 1989, then? ;-) Yeah, I didn't accept GB16 for just being a mediocre, yet another unneeded remake/reboot/sequel/cashgrab. Didn't Feig introduce the idea of "Oh you don't like it cause they're all women" when responding to negative reactions? Which started WW...can't even say WW3 cause I'm sure we had more than a few if you're counting internet conflicts. I never watched He-Man so I couldn't say one way or another. Just never caught my interest as a kid.
Paul Feig and the studio definitely leaned into the "you're all just sexist" handwave reaction to any and all criticism of the movie, but it's not like they invented it out of nowhere either. There was a LOT of complaining about an all-female Ghostbusters reboot before the first trailer even got released because it was women in the starring roles. The other factor is that nerds really hate change. I think there would've been some outrage if they were remaking it with four men that weren't the original actors, too. But combine a culture of casual misogyny with changing things nerdom considers sacred and you have a clusterf*** of epic proportions.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 28, 2019 12:50:16 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Wonder Woman absolutely caught some shit, in particular I remember people being irritated over the joke in the trailer comparing being a secretary to slavery. It's faded now and it never got quite as vitriolic as Captain Marvel or Star Wars (I still can't even tell what the actual problem with Rey is even supposed to be beyond, "Woman who's overpowered without much explanation," when no one really questions it when that's done with a guy) but it was certainly there. I'm almost surprised Gal Gadot didn't get the torches and pitchforks treatment, as she literally said in an interview "Every woman, every man, everyone should be a feminist. Because whoever is not a feminist is a sexist."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 12:53:26 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Wonder Woman absolutely caught some shit, in particular I remember people being irritated over the joke in the trailer comparing being a secretary to slavery. It's faded now and it never got quite as vitriolic as Captain Marvel or Star Wars (I still can't even tell what the actual problem with Rey is even supposed to be beyond, "Woman who's overpowered without much explanation," when no one really questions it when that's done with a guy) but it was certainly there. I'm almost surprised Gal Gadot didn't get the torches and pitchforks treatment, as she literally said in an interview "Every woman, every man, everyone should be a feminist. Because whoever is not a feminist is a sexist."Okay, yeah, I'm astounded she didn't get that reaction, especially since she's completely correct.
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