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Post by KofiMania on Feb 24, 2020 14:11:20 GMT -5
Most of the full-time guys will still be in featured matches as well. WrestleMania is like 7 hours long. Mania being that long is yet another problem. It's getting worse, not better. Don’t disagree, but I’m excited to see the old guard vs. new guard matches more than I am seeing only newer stars, who we see fight pretty much every single week on TV.
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Post by CeilingFan on Feb 24, 2020 14:20:53 GMT -5
I just want it to sink in that if The Fiend loses to Goldberg at Super Showdown, we will have not one, but two world champions in this company who are part timers that rarely show up to acknowledge the feuds they are in, let alone wrestle, and this would be for the most important time of the year for WWE, Mania Season And then we also have guys like Cena, Taker, and HHH who only wrestle like once a year on average anymore, who could also be in prominant Mania storylines come this time around too Couple that with the fact that they continue to fall back on the same acts of the past few years like Roman for big matches, Edge vs Orton might be the most interesting build of the entire Mania season, there are basically no Tag Team Divisons on either brand, The Women's feuds need either an NXT crutch or feel completely lopsided due to Becky's booking, and we might get Bryan vs Sheamus again?? WWE feels like they have been in a feedback loop for the past decade with no signs of pulling out of it. It just gets worse every year and in kind, their numbers and ratings follow suit. They really think they can just keep doing the same shit and get away with it and I gotta tell ya, I don't see that lasting much longer with how the trends have been. You would think that the success of AEW would make them change their gameplan. No, no change.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Feb 24, 2020 14:28:44 GMT -5
I think the Fiend/Firefly Funhouse gimmick has pretty much run its course by Vince's standards and timeline; indeed, I'd suggest that Bray Wyatt's run near the main event has run its course.
At this stage, I don't care who takes the title off Bray Wyatt. It needs to happen, partly to move the character forward (if that is the plan), and partly to begin the future build for someone else to take the stage as Face of the Company(tm). At the moment, neither title is getting much publicity or prestige with their respective holders. Cena doesn't need the title: heck, if I were Vince, I'd count my blessings that Cena's even taking my phone calls at this point. Roman can chase for it: Goldberg can pass the torch if he so wishes.
The Firefly Funhouse angle, however, needs to fish or cut bait at this point - it's the same problem as plagued the Wyatt Family Wyatt's entire run: no exposition or effort to move along whatever plot is being pushed.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Feb 24, 2020 14:32:07 GMT -5
Mania being that long is yet another problem. It's getting worse, not better. Don’t disagree, but I’m excited to see the old guard vs. new guard matches more than I am seeing only newer stars, who we see fight pretty much every single week on TV. But the old guard loses, or should. What do these old bastards gain by winning a match and disappearing for months/years again? What do fans get out of it?
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 24, 2020 14:54:58 GMT -5
Don’t disagree, but I’m excited to see the old guard vs. new guard matches more than I am seeing only newer stars, who we see fight pretty much every single week on TV. But the old guard loses, or should. What do these old bastards gain by winning a match and disappearing for months/years again? What do fans get out of it? Fans get to see interesting and unique matches with starpower. And who says all of the “old timers” are winning? Roman would be the heavy favorite against Goldberg, as would the Fiend against Cena. Taker I can see beating Styles but that is more of a dream matchup anyway as Styles is about as established as one can be and can’t really move up in prestige if he wins, in my opinion. Lesnar I’d still consider current, but he’ll probably be the underdog against McIntyre as well.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Feb 24, 2020 15:11:17 GMT -5
Unique? Sure. Starpower? Maybe fifteen years ago. Interesting? Not really.
Again, Mania should showcase current stars who are around all the time. Keep the fans you have (who are dwindling) and try to draw in casual and new fans.
Oh, hey! You liked that jacked old guy who spears people? You like that undead guy? You like John Cena? Well, don't get used to it. That's what they're saying to newer fans, and even big fans.
Old guys should not be taking up more than a spot or two on the card. Not four or five.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 15:34:24 GMT -5
I really think there's no defense whatsoever for WWE's obsession with part-timers. It basically renders 90% of their television every year completely useless because come March, whatever, all of the prominent spots are going to be eaten up by the people who otherwise have no presence and don't factor into anything.
And it's just plain not a sustainable strategy. You spend a decade telling everyone not to bother giving a damn about Dolph Ziggler, sooner or later Dolph Ziggler's going to be the best name from the past who can still get in the ring and at that point no one will care about him. It's a business model that gradually eats itself.
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 24, 2020 15:38:44 GMT -5
Unique? Sure. Starpower? Maybe fifteen years ago. Interesting? Not really. Again, Mania should showcase current stars who are around all the time. Keep the fans you have (who are dwindling) and try to draw in casual and new fans. Oh, hey! You liked that jacked old guy who spears people? You like that undead guy? You like John Cena? Well, don't get used to it. That's what they're saying to newer fans, and even big fans. Old guys should not be taking up more than a spot or two on the card. Not four or five. I could see that being a valid argument when there was much less content being churned out year-round and when PPVs were 3-4 hours max. Now you see the “full-time” guys all the time, with big events/PPVs/Network specials year round. But there is so much more time now for Mania that having legends fight in 3-4 matches does not take the shine from any of the featured newer stars. If you deserve to be featured, you will get featured. And by establishing the newer generation like Reigns, Wyatt, and Styles against the old guard, they can ensure that those guys will one day be able to transition into those star/legend roles.
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 24, 2020 15:41:48 GMT -5
I really think there's no defense whatsoever for WWE's obsession with part-timers. It basically renders 90% of their television every year completely useless because come March, whatever, all of the prominent spots are going to be eaten up by the people who otherwise have no presence and don't factor into anything. And it's just plain not a sustainable strategy. You spend a decade telling everyone not to bother giving a damn about Dolph Ziggler, sooner or later Dolph Ziggler's going to be the best name from the past who can still get in the ring and at that point no one will care about him. It's a business model that gradually eats itself. Highly disagree as people have been saying the same thing for the past 15 years but then Cena, Edge, Lesnar, Batista have all become stars and were able to be transitioned into legends roles, while Underaker never stops.. The same will happen in the next 5-10 years with guys like Reigns, Rollins, Orton, Bryan, Styles, Owens, maybe Punk becoming those legendary figures. So no, they won’t be left with just Dolph.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 15:56:16 GMT -5
I really think there's no defense whatsoever for WWE's obsession with part-timers. It basically renders 90% of their television every year completely useless because come March, whatever, all of the prominent spots are going to be eaten up by the people who otherwise have no presence and don't factor into anything. And it's just plain not a sustainable strategy. You spend a decade telling everyone not to bother giving a damn about Dolph Ziggler, sooner or later Dolph Ziggler's going to be the best name from the past who can still get in the ring and at that point no one will care about him. It's a business model that gradually eats itself. Highly disagree as people have been saying the same thing for the past 15 years but then Cena, Edge, Lesnar, Batista have all become stars and were able to be transitioned into legends roles, while Underaker never stops.. The same will happen in the next 5-10 years with guys like Reigns, Rollins, Orton, Bryan, Styles, Owens, maybe Punk becoming those legendary figures. So no, they won’t be left with just Dolph. There's really no evidence at all that most of those guys are draws (or really that Lesnar is, as much as they give the world to him), and AJ's already broken down even present day. If anything pointing Seth as the guy who'll be the go-to when you need to pop a rating in the future proves the point given any time he's been positioned on top ratings have consistently tanked.
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Post by cabbageboy on Feb 24, 2020 16:20:56 GMT -5
Lesnar is the biggest anti draw in history actually. His 2002-04 run in WWE tanked business somewhat and his run since 2014 has seen WWE's attendance crater and TV ratings basically cut in half because they keep featuring a guy as a top star that's never really around to wrestle or do anything.
I'd have Goldberg beat The Fiend, but then Wyatt can cost Cena the EC match (if he is in it?). Reigns can win that and then face Goldberg, while Cena faces The Fiend. Now if Cena goes over The Fiend at WM, we've got a problem.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 24, 2020 16:28:22 GMT -5
Highly disagree as people have been saying the same thing for the past 15 years but then Cena, Edge, Lesnar, Batista have all become stars and were able to be transitioned into legends roles, while Underaker never stops.. The same will happen in the next 5-10 years with guys like Reigns, Rollins, Orton, Bryan, Styles, Owens, maybe Punk becoming those legendary figures. So no, they won’t be left with just Dolph. There's really no evidence at all that most of those guys are draws (or really that Lesnar is, as much as they give the world to him), and AJ's already broken down even present day. If anything pointing Seth as the guy who'll be the go-to when you need to pop a rating in the future proves the point given any time he's been positioned on top ratings have consistently tanked. ditto Orton. Whenever Orton has the belt the ratings have usually gone down...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 17:19:18 GMT -5
I really don't see a snowballs's chance in hell Shayna wins at Mania. She's the only person who's gotten any kind of leg up on Becky since Mania so she's being used as the challenger because no one else has been allowed to; post-Mania they'll move over Bayley or something and hope that feuding with Becky can get someone to give a shit about her. dunno. I've heard a rumor that becky and seth are planning to take a break after mania (getting married maybe?) and that becky at least was talking about needing to refresh her character a bit and the time off would help her as far as that goes. so if there's any truth to that I expect her to lose the title at mania to make it a full year give or take a few days as champ and having faced everyone else possible as bazler would be a fresh matchup for the rest of the raw roster. ditto bayley on smackdown. she's gone through everyone but naomi and sasha at this point so I can see naomi winning either at the definitely not in Saudi arabia Saudi show or mania if they do a screwy finish there. granted nxt women's division has better depth than either brand at this point but barring the usual smarkamania RAW callups (Bianca? not sure who else) becky and bayley have run their courses as champ right now Yeah, we've been in LOLBECKYWINS territory for a while now, but I'd be surprised if Shayna doesn't win at WM or Extreme Rules (it SHOULD be WM, but you know how this company is) for a few reasons: 1) Like you said, she might want to get married really soon especially while her father's still around (he has lung cancer IIRC). 2) Her character's been an even cockier troll than usual lately, perhaps she's hinting that The Man is finally starting to get in way over her head. 3) That picture she posted on IG the other day of herself from 4-5 years ago. Probably means nothing, though. Anyway Drew/Brock Edge/Orton Becky/Shayna Charlotte/Rhea The Fiend/Cena Roman/Goldberg Bryan/Braun/Sheamus I understand the complaints about old guys and part timers, but I wouldn't hate this card.
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 24, 2020 19:32:41 GMT -5
Highly disagree as people have been saying the same thing for the past 15 years but then Cena, Edge, Lesnar, Batista have all become stars and were able to be transitioned into legends roles, while Underaker never stops.. The same will happen in the next 5-10 years with guys like Reigns, Rollins, Orton, Bryan, Styles, Owens, maybe Punk becoming those legendary figures. So no, they won’t be left with just Dolph. There's really no evidence at all that most of those guys are draws (or really that Lesnar is, as much as they give the world to him), and AJ's already broken down even present day. If anything pointing Seth as the guy who'll be the go-to when you need to pop a rating in the future proves the point given any time he's been positioned on top ratings have consistently tanked. No one is really a draw anymore, that’s just not really how things work these days. Your point was that the biggest “name” they’ll have is Dolph but I think it’s pretty clear they’ll have plenty of big names left (and will develop even more as they give more guys pushes in the future).
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 25, 2020 10:01:29 GMT -5
Anyone starting to think instead of a singles match, we’re heading towards Taker, Black and Ricochet vs. the OC?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 25, 2020 10:07:07 GMT -5
Anyone starting to think instead of a singles match, we’re heading towards Taker, Black and Ricochet vs. the OC? It’s not impossible, but I still think the Undertaker v Styles singles match is the most likely.
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Post by KofiMania on Feb 25, 2020 10:19:10 GMT -5
Anyone starting to think instead of a singles match, we’re heading towards Taker, Black and Ricochet vs. the OC? It’s not impossible, but I still think the Undertaker v Styles singles match is the most likely. Singles matches are certainly more marquee but Ricochet fought Gallows last night, now Black is starting a feud with Styles and there doesn’t seem to be a clear direction otherwise for Black and Ricochet, unless they are shoehorned into the US title picture with Garza, Andrade, Carillo and Rey (a ladder match with those 6 would be off the charts) or shoehorned into a tag title program with Rollins/Murphy and KO/Joe.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 25, 2020 10:26:02 GMT -5
It’s not impossible, but I still think the Undertaker v Styles singles match is the most likely. Singles matches are certainly more marquee but Ricochet fought Gallows last night, now Black is starting a feud with Styles and there doesn’t seem to be a clear direction otherwise for Black and Ricochet, unless they are shoehorned into the US title picture with Garza, Andrade, Carillo and Rey (a ladder match with those 6 would be off the charts) or shoehorned into a tag title program with Rollins/Murphy and KO/Joe. I get your concern here... The roster is just so stacked, but now you have to juggle all the part-timers, the increased emphasis on the women, the addition of NXT involvement... There are so many great talents who may only end up topping out at the battle royal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 10:32:24 GMT -5
Thank heaven's there's Grandberg to show these jabronies how to be a star!
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2020 10:43:20 GMT -5
We seem to get into a WM pattern where it seems like it'll be utter shit, but then ends up just being kind of bland and mediocre, but the lowered expectations lead to people praising the final product...well, outside of that one in Dallas, that didn't go so well on any level.
Personally I'm just blown away by how a multi-billion dollar promotion can have all year to plan its absolute biggest card and weekend of the year, yet instead it flies into it by the seat of its pants and can just barely scrape together something passable with the insane amount of talent the company has under contract. Makes me wish it WOULD just be utter chaos each year, it'd at least be more fun to sit back and laugh at, but it's hard to settle in for a show that goes on so long that you experience continental shifts while it's airing.
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