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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Jun 12, 2020 21:00:49 GMT -5
The Godfather thing always really confused me. In the infamous DX impersonating the Nation skit I don't even remember the Godfather having the pimp gimmick so I was confused by whatever Billy Gunn was doing. I thought he was still Kama Mustafa at the time. And then after the DX impersonation then all of a sudden he had the pimp gimmick. I watched every week back then but I always feel like I missed something there. When exactly did Kama switch to The Godfather? I thought the same thing at the time. I think either Kama had started the gimmick on Shotgun or maybe the gimmick had been played with backstage but not on TV. I watched all WWF TV but Shotgun and I definitely don't remember him with the all black pimp outfit anytime before the DX skit. I know he had a 1998 Comic Images trading card made of him in the black pimp outfit and a lot of guys had cards that were rarely on TV so maybe he had done it at a house show or Shotgun. That would make sense. Shotgun didn't air in my area so if it happened there I would have missed it.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Jun 12, 2020 21:30:55 GMT -5
Is Kwang really a mysterious ninja assassin, or is Savio Vega a dorky weaboo?
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jun 12, 2020 21:36:27 GMT -5
If I recall, Kama/Godfather had started wearing the hat and vest and was called "the Godfather of the Nation" before Billy's parody. I don't recall him ever making references to pimps and hoes prior to the skit. That was probably Billy embellishing. Along with the blackface, it almost makes it even more racist if Billy is talking about pimps, hoes, and "West side!" before Kama/Godfather talked about pimping and hoes on TV. I don't think Kama/Godfather had come out with any women on his arms prior to the DX skit. WWF and Charles could have decided to lean into the general idea of what Billy was doing.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Jun 12, 2020 21:41:12 GMT -5
WWF @ Columbus, OH - Convention Center - July 15, 1998 (6,737) Bradshaw pinned the Godfather following the Clothesline from Hell
This was about where the change began in earnest. I was at this card, and Kama came out with no ladies and in his regular Nation gear, but cut a promo before this match asking Bradshaw if he'd ever been with a ho. Then he actually started pointing over to various ladies in the front row as if they were his hos, which was a rather clever heat-baiting tactic.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 12, 2020 22:59:43 GMT -5
Brutus mentioned Baron Beefcake as a name someone suggested to him when he debuted in WWF. Was he mistaken given the online joke or was it really a name suggested? I think it would be cool if Barry Darsow in late 1990s came out to a Demolition gimmick as I think Saturday Night was so low on the WCW totem pole at the time that WWF may not have tried to sue. Suggested, never used. It'd be like if one of Steve Austin's legit aliases was Chilly McFreeze.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 12, 2020 23:03:35 GMT -5
I never knew the repo man was smash at first Honestly, I didn't either at first; which is weird, because while his vignettes used a quieter, "sneakier" voice, the first couple of backstage promos had him using his traditional Smash voice and tone.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,003
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 12, 2020 23:23:23 GMT -5
I never knew the repo man was smash at first Honestly, I didn't either at first; which is weird, because while his vignettes used a quieter, "sneakier" voice, the first couple of backstage promos had him using his traditional Smash voice and tone. I totally knew. They had the same tattoo. Which is odd because I believe it less now knowing it’s true
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,997
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 12, 2020 23:39:53 GMT -5
What about the Iron Sheik and Colonel Mustafa?
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Post by G✇JI☈A on Jun 12, 2020 23:48:09 GMT -5
I wasn’t really watching at the time... but did WWE try to debut Lord Tensai as a new wrestler and not acknowledge he was Prince Albert/A-Train?
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,997
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 12, 2020 23:59:20 GMT -5
I wasn’t really watching at the time... but did WWE try to debut Lord Tensai as a new wrestler and not acknowledge he was Prince Albert/A-Train? They mentioned he was a former WWE superstar who went to Japan, but didn’t mention him by name.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 13, 2020 2:37:06 GMT -5
What about the Iron Sheik and Colonel Mustafa? They acknowledged him being the Sheik back in his first appearance. I THINK there were references here and there about him being a former WWF champion too. And since they both appeared on the same Superstars episode, that reminds me....The Dragon was NOT separate from Ricky Steamboat. While they announced him as and referred to him mostly as Dragon, they sometimes did call him Steamboat too and acknowledged some elements of his past.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 13, 2020 2:43:33 GMT -5
If I recall, Kama/Godfather had started wearing the hat and vest and was called "the Godfather of the Nation" before Billy's parody. I don't recall him ever making references to pimps and hoes prior to the skit. That was probably Billy embellishing. Along with the blackface, it almost makes it even more racist if Billy is talking about pimps, hoes, and "West side!" before Kama/Godfather talked about pimping and hoes on TV. I don't think Kama/Godfather had come out with any women on his arms prior to the DX skit. WWF and Charles could have decided to lean into the general idea of what Billy was doing. That DX skit oddly enough established the Nation's personalities, as if members embraced their parody selves. Rock was already there, of course. D'Lo, to a degree. Though I wonder if he did the head shake taunt MORE after the skit. Owen got the "nugget" thing as heel heat. Mark Henry subverted this and turned into Sexual Chocolate on his own. And Godfather the pimp character. As mentioned before, he was still Kama Mustafa only wearing fancier clothes and getting the "Godfather" nickname which eventually overtook his old name. After the skit was when he too embraced his parody and became the pimp. Now here's a challenge: did they ever imply that Kama Mustafa = Kama the Supreme Fighting Machine?
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 13, 2020 2:47:35 GMT -5
Here's an interesting example:
I know he was originally called "The Genius" Lanny Poffo before going just by his nickname. But did anyone ever make much ado about him being the former "Leaping Lanny"? And I know LLP did a heel turn under his original name just before briefly disappearing and reappearing as The Genius. But when he showed up as The Genius it was mostly treated as a whole new character.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 13, 2020 2:51:45 GMT -5
Brutus mentioned Baron Beefcake as a name someone suggested to him when he debuted in WWF. Was he mistaken given the online joke or was it really a name suggested? I think it would be cool if Barry Darsow in late 1990s came out to a Demolition gimmick as I think Saturday Night was so low on the WCW totem pole at the time that WWF may not have tried to sue. It would still be pushing their luck, as that's a part of why WWF weren't getting along with Bill Eadie, as they disputed who came up with the Demolition gimmick.
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SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,498
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Post by SmashTV on Jun 13, 2020 4:48:51 GMT -5
Honestly, I didn't either at first; which is weird, because while his vignettes used a quieter, "sneakier" voice, the first couple of backstage promos had him using his traditional Smash voice and tone. I totally knew. They had the same tattoo. I remember seeing a picture of Krusher Khrushchev in an Apter mag long after Smash was established and feeling pretty smug that I’d identified his old persona. PWI referred to him as KK in the caption, which made me even more smug. To answer the question, I always had them pegged as two entirely different people. The WWF rarely acknowledged anyone’s past back then, regardless of whether they were a newcomer or someone returning to the company. While I knew it was Smash, I took the new look/gimmick/theme to be a different character altogether.
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Post by clodhopper on Jun 13, 2020 8:14:29 GMT -5
What about the Iron Sheik and Colonel Mustafa? They acknowledged him being the Sheik back in his first appearance. I THINK there were references here and there about him being a former WWF champion too. They also redid commentary for that first match, removing any mention of him being the Iron Sheik, which makes it all the more confusing.
I don't have the links but as of about a year ago you could find the match with both sets of commentary on youtube.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 13, 2020 8:17:14 GMT -5
The PWI VHS compilation of some of the NWA matches in 1986 had a cover with Krusher on it and it showed his arms down with the eagle tattoo so I knew as a kid he was Smash. As Smash you could still see parts of the tattoo even with his arm pad and when he turned heel in 1990 he had no arm pad, which I'm not sure why but I guess WWF figured it was beyond the time people would remember Krusher. It's strange they left him as Repo Man with the tattoo exposed.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 13, 2020 10:30:31 GMT -5
The PWI VHS compilation of some of the NWA matches in 1986 had a cover with Krusher on it and it showed his arms down with the eagle tattoo so I knew as a kid he was Smash. As Smash you could still see parts of the tattoo even with his arm pad and when he turned heel in 1990 he had no arm pad, which I'm not sure why but I guess WWF figured it was beyond the time people would remember Krusher. It's strange they left him as Repo Man with the tattoo exposed. Actually, Wrestling Eye clued me in, as they would throw shoot-style news and facts in every issue, alongside the kayfabe stories. They gave away Demolition's identities in one such article.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 11:31:48 GMT -5
I totally knew. They had the same tattoo. I remember seeing a picture of Krusher Khrushchev in an Apter mag long after Smash was established and feeling pretty smug that I’d identified his old persona. PWI referred to him as KK in the caption, which made me even more smug. To answer the question, I always had them pegged as two entirely different people. The WWF rarely acknowledged anyone’s past back then, regardless of whether they were a newcomer or someone returning to the company. While I knew it was Smash, I took the new look/gimmick/theme to be a different character altogether. His voice and trash talking was always the easiest way to identify him. I remember having WCW Saturday Night on in the mid 90's. Wasn't even paying attention to it and I heard what sounded like Smash yelling about kicking somebody's teeth in or breaking their neck and looked up and sure enough it was Darsow torturing some jobber.
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Post by mrpeacock on Jun 13, 2020 12:15:08 GMT -5
Were Baron Beefcake, Big Brother Booty, The Booty Man, Brother Bruti, Brute Force, Brutus Beefcake, The Butcher, The Clipmaster, The Disciple , Dizzy Golden, Dizzy Hogan, Ed Boulder, Eddie Golden, Eddie Hogan, The Mariner, The Man With No Face, The Man With No Name, and The Zodiac the same character? Baron Beefcake doesn't exist and never did. That was added to his online aliases as a joke by someone and never got corrected. I have yet to see any proof he was ever referred to as "The Man with No Face" The "Mariner" is the only one that wasn't ever canonically Beefcake. (Also, while that gimmick happened, it never had an official name - people call it Mariner now out of some supposed connection/resemblance to Waterworld, even though that film didn't come out until four years after the gimmick) All the Dizzy and Ed/Eddies are the same guy. Beefcake and his succession of gimmicks (Bruti, Clipmaster, Butcher, Man with no Name, Zodiac, Booty Man, Discple, Brute Force) are all the same guy. I'm not sure if they ever canonized the Dizzy/Eddie stuff back into his "lore" during his WCW days but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't at least mention his time running with Hogan prior to the Beefcake run. On the topic of Beefcake, Something has always confused me. In the opening of Mr. Nanny, Beefcake is dressed up as Zodiac attacking Hogan. However Mr. Nanny came out like 2 years before Zodiac debut in WCW. Was this an Ed Leslie original gimmick or did he just snag the outfit idea from the movie?
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