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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 13, 2020 16:08:18 GMT -5
Baron Beefcake doesn't exist and never did. That was added to his online aliases as a joke by someone and never got corrected. I have yet to see any proof he was ever referred to as "The Man with No Face" The "Mariner" is the only one that wasn't ever canonically Beefcake. (Also, while that gimmick happened, it never had an official name - people call it Mariner now out of some supposed connection/resemblance to Waterworld, even though that film didn't come out until four years after the gimmick) All the Dizzy and Ed/Eddies are the same guy. Beefcake and his succession of gimmicks (Bruti, Clipmaster, Butcher, Man with no Name, Zodiac, Booty Man, Discple, Brute Force) are all the same guy. I'm not sure if they ever canonized the Dizzy/Eddie stuff back into his "lore" during his WCW days but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't at least mention his time running with Hogan prior to the Beefcake run. On the topic of Beefcake, Something has always confused me. In the opening of Mr. Nanny, Beefcake is dressed up as Zodiac attacking Hogan. However Mr. Nanny came out like 2 years before Zodiac debut in WCW. Was this an Ed Leslie original gimmick or did he just snag the outfit idea from the movie? I'm guessing it was just supposed to be a character for that scene for the movie with Hogan getting his buddy the part. Then Leslie used it later for a gimmick in WCW.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 13, 2020 16:22:49 GMT -5
Eh...combination of being too after-the-fact to matter and JR doing JR things. Speaking of...IRS is sort of an interesting example--was he Mike Rotundo or not? At King of the Ring '93 Ross says that IRS has been tag champion with "3 different partners on 4 different occasions"--which is actually only 2 partners, but was a clear unspoken assumption that IRS and Rotunda were the same person. Then there's Vince's "Mr. Rotunda...?" blunder on Raw, which IRS didn't acknowledge, but...it happened. Despite all that I lean towards them being different people. Crush, as I mentioned a few weeks ago, is another is-he-or-isn't-he example. Outside of one mention by Johnny Polo on Coliseum Video--another instance of being after-the-fact and nobody really paying attention to him--it was never said that Kona Crush was the same person as Demolition Crush...yet, they never quite said it was somebody brand-new, either. I learn towards all the Crushes being the same person, though Facepaint Crush and Jailbird Crush are obviously overtly the same. I'd say IRS was Rotundo: Michael Wallstreet '91 was acknowledged to be Mike Rotunda formerly of the Varsity Club. Michael Wallstreet '95 made a wink-wink-nudge reference to "the IRS" in his first appearance on Nitro. I think there was just one Crush. Since they basically stopped acknowledging Demolition completely after '91, it makes sense that they wouldn't talk about his past. I remember there was a promo from a Raw in 1993 where Vince was interviewing IRS from his office via satellite and actually refers to him as "Mr. Rotundo". Don't know if it was a botch or intentional. I guess Rotundo maybe was the R. in Irwin R. Schyster but even if that's the case then wouldn't it make more sense to call him Mr. Schyster?
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Jun 13, 2020 16:37:48 GMT -5
What about the Iron Sheik and Colonel Mustafa? When he debuted as Mustafa, Vince flat out said "That's the Iron Sheik, former WWF champion" during his entrance.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 13, 2020 16:53:06 GMT -5
What about the Iron Sheik and Colonel Mustafa? When he debuted as Mustafa, Vince flat out said "That's the Iron Sheik, former WWF champion" during his entrance. Did they explain why he joined a militant Iraqi faction after Iran and Iraq were coming off their own war not too long before?
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Dean-o
Grimlock
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Post by Dean-o on Jun 13, 2020 19:41:46 GMT -5
Were Baron Beefcake, Big Brother Booty, The Booty Man, Brother Bruti, Brute Force, Brutus Beefcake, The Butcher, The Clipmaster, The Disciple , Dizzy Golden, Dizzy Hogan, Ed Boulder, Eddie Golden, Eddie Hogan, The Mariner, The Man With No Face, The Man With No Name, and The Zodiac the same character? Yes! No! Yes! No!
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 13, 2020 19:51:42 GMT -5
What about the Iron Sheik and Colonel Mustafa? When he debuted as Mustafa, Vince flat out said "That's the Iron Sheik, former WWF champion" during his entrance. Yep (but only on the Superstars of Wrestling version that Vince, Savage and Piper were on; the other syndicated version of it - I can't remember which show - that had Sean Mooney and Lord Alfred Hayes calling the match completely played dumb on who he was) I think someone already mentioned Piper doing the same regarding Saba Simba (Tony Atlas) in his debut, and Curt Hennig did the same while calling the Goon (Bill Irwin)'s debut.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 13, 2020 22:45:50 GMT -5
At least with Perfect on commentary he usually made mention of non-WWF facts or personas to put over the newcomer. He even tried with Doug Gilbert at the Royal Rumble but Vince McMahon had no clue how to put him over. I wonder if Vince even knew who was being booked for the rumbles since Pat Patterson is often credited for the booking of the match.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 14, 2020 2:49:10 GMT -5
I never knew the repo man was smash at first Honestly, I didn't either at first; which is weird, because while his vignettes used a quieter, "sneakier" voice, the first couple of backstage promos had him using his traditional Smash voice and tone. Its funny, as it took me a while as well to catch on that Smash and Repo Man were the same guy. Demolition were one of my favourite teams, and Smash in particular, and I always saw him as a relatively slow-moving powerhouse, while Repo Man was smaller, nimble, and weaselly. I don't know if Darsow dropped weight between gimmicks or not, but it's a testament to his talents as a physical performer and commitment to a character that the two seemed so different.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by agent817 on Jun 15, 2020 16:44:29 GMT -5
What about K-Kwik and R-Truth?
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Jun 15, 2020 17:34:54 GMT -5
Are Crush and Adam Bomb the same guys as Kronik?
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Post by Mike Bockwinkel on Jun 15, 2020 20:05:56 GMT -5
Are Crush and Adam Bomb the same guys as Kronik? Yes.
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Post by ppl591 on Jun 15, 2020 21:50:47 GMT -5
Are chris Jericho and doink the same person? Because dam they never should've made Jericho doink
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 16, 2020 5:29:42 GMT -5
One guy who was kayfabe the same person for a hell of a long time was the Ray Traylor, at least once he became Big Bossman. They certainly weren't trying to hide who he was when he went to WCW as The Boss, through being Guardian Angel, Bubba, and then of course back to WWF as Bossman again.
That does make one wonder if his original Bubba Rogers persona could be wrapped into that progression, though, considering he went back to being called Bubba in WCW at some point but didn't take on the old "besuited mob enforcer/bouncer" gimmick again.
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Post by Mike Bockwinkel on Jun 16, 2020 9:47:04 GMT -5
One guy who was kayfabe the same person for a hell of a long time was the Ray Traylor, at least once he became Big Bossman. They certainly weren't trying to hide who he was when he went to WCW as The Boss, through being Guardian Angel, Bubba, and then of course back to WWF as Bossman again. That does make one wonder if his original Bubba Rogers persona could be wrapped into that progression, though, considering he went back to being called Bubba in WCW at some point but didn't take on the old "besuited mob enforcer/bouncer" gimmick again. After Guardian Angel, he turned heel again and was renamed Big Bubba Roger's again with the suits and fedora hats.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 16, 2020 11:30:38 GMT -5
I really liked the Guardian Angel character. I wonder why it was changed. If the Angels group supported it, then it seems like it had legs. Ray Traylor was such a natural heel, sure but he was also a natural face he was that good at making his characters work. I liked seeing him as a good guy though and I think it hurt his career post 1988-1990 heel run anytime he worked heel after the original face run.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jun 16, 2020 11:42:00 GMT -5
I really liked the Guardian Angel character. I wonder why it was changed. If the Angels group supported it, then it seems like it had legs. Ray Traylor was such a natural heel, sure but he was also a natural face he was that good at making his characters work. I liked seeing him as a good guy though and I think it hurt his career post 1988-1990 heel run anytime he worked heel after the original face run. What’s frustrating is that they never really did much with him when he was the Guardian Angel. All I remember is him wrestling Vader over and over and over and over.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 16, 2020 11:46:41 GMT -5
What’s frustrating is that they never really did much with him when he was the Guardian Angel. All I remember is him wrestling Vader over and over and over and over. And he was always losing so I guess, even though Vader was a huge name, it would have been hard for GA to regain momentum in the eyes on fans. WCW mid 1990s always seemed to have PPVs where the a few matches were the same singles or teams that wrestled each other on multiple PPVs. But as a kid I never got tired of it because those guys were entertaining.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 12:31:24 GMT -5
Was it ever said that Christopher Daniels and Curry Man were the same guy?
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Jun 16, 2020 14:40:26 GMT -5
What’s frustrating is that they never really did much with him when he was the Guardian Angel. All I remember is him wrestling Vader over and over and over and over. And he was always losing so I guess, even though Vader was a huge name, it would have been hard for GA to regain momentum in the eyes on fans. WCW mid 1990s always seemed to have PPVs where the a few matches were the same singles or teams that wrestled each other on multiple PPVs. But as a kid I never got tired of it because those guys were entertaining. Even though the matches were great putting him against Vader all the time really hurt him imo as they were never going to have him over on him so Traylor just kept constantly losing to him which I thought really hurt his value as far as him being any kind of a player goes. Boss/Guardian Angel lost to Vader in four consecutive PPV matches. Losing that many big matches to the same guy and as a face was going to be really hard to recover from so I get turning him heel however they never really did much with him in that role either. It's weird how they never pushed him that much as he could still go and he was surprisingly still pretty young as he was still only 30 when he first debuted. Going by podcasts he's been on Bischoff really liked him as he thought very highly of him as a talent and was even pretty tight with him outside work as they shared a lot of similar hobbies (hunting, riding motorcycles). With him still being talented and having such a good relationship with the boss you would think it would've led to him getting a much bigger push and role then he eventually ended up settling into. As far as the Guardian Angel gimmick goes I didn't really care for it and thought it was the weakest of all of his incarnations. I thought the three strike thing was cool and a unique way to set up a babyface comeback but the whole getting his nightstick and handcuffs taken and him not being able to use weapons just made him look like a wuss I thought. Again though I'm surprised they didn't do more with it as apparently they invested a lot into it and Traylor himself actually went through the legit training process.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 16, 2020 16:16:39 GMT -5
apparently they invested a lot into it and Traylor himself actually went through the legit training process. Indeed. For a time he was actually registered as a member of the organisation and if tales are to be believed he actually participated in a few patrols. Between that, Mick Foley being willing to let Vader powerbomb him on the concrete floor a second time, and John Tenta changing his tiger tattoo, mid-'90s WCW midcarders really went above and beyond for their gimmicks.
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