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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 3, 2020 12:30:13 GMT -5
When WWE is good they are GOOD but that’s too far Inbetween I just don’t care. Outside of here, I do not talk about wrestling unless I’m with my boys I have gone to shows with As morbid as it sounds, nothing will change until Vince kicks the bucket or is deemed mentally incapable of leading the company. Def not going wish death on him and the mental part is nothing to joke about I enjoy certain aspects of WWE (I’m not counting NXT in that) and those aspects I can get in bite size pieces on social media or YouTube if I’m interested. Other then that, it’s a chore to watch every single show and that’s a waste of my time That's pretty much it for me but it isn't just WWE, it's all wrestling as a whole. I have way too much going on and more important things to do in life these days than care about watching a 2-3hr wrestling show each and every single week like years ago. Nah, not me. I just peep those twitter posts and youtube comments and be good 99% of the time. Obsessing over this shit just isn't good for your health
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Post by mistery on Dec 3, 2020 12:45:33 GMT -5
I think the issue basically boils down to no promotion is perfect. WWE is the promotion you watch if you want a quick hit considering you can miss multiple weeks of the show and still understand what is going on. AEW is the promotion you should watch if you want long overarching storylines which require almost weekly viewing. Like...I enjoy AEW but good god the fanbase is basically Rick and Morty levels of awful. Outside of the women's division, you aren't allowed to criticize any aspect of the company without its fans jumping you. WWE has the same problem, but to a significantly lower extent. I don't agree with your other post, which seems needlessly divisive, but I do agree with part of this. I really like AEW and I haven't watched WWE in years outside of RR/WM. But I do feel like any criticism of AEW gets shouted down. And I like the product and watch every week, but they have ups and downs just like anyone else. But a lot of people refuse to even entertain the idea that people can find some of the things they do to be negative or miss the mark. And it's way worse on Twitter than here. It doesn't at all need to be this tribal, extremist thing. It's still just wrasslin. The problem boils down to the fanbase, and AEW's inability (or unwillingness) to tell their...more hardcore fans to stop being idiots. Doesn't exactly help when you have BTE stoking the flames, or Jericho constantly taking shots at WWE every chance he gets to fan the flames even more. And when things do blow up in their face from time to time, they constantly go into deflection mode or find some way to spin it as the fault of anyone but AEW. I see the same stuff happening with WWE fans (at least the latter half of blaming everyone but the company), but I don't think I've seen WWE stars going on social media bashing the AEW product either. Same goes for anything WWE really uploads to their channel these days.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:46:25 GMT -5
As said already as grim as it sounds nothing in WWE is going to change let alone improve untill the head of the company..either leaves (that boat has already sunk) or he croaks and that is just a small portion of it because who knows what he plans to do with the company as he gets to that point...does he give it to the obvious people? or does he have some other insane f***ing scheme where he sells it off to Lou Feringo because Lou makes him laugh alot when he tells fart jokes who knows with the old man.
Other than NXT which is just because alot of my favourite and my personal #1 is there I can't get into any other wrestling because it all just feels so stagnent and makes me feel like how I felt approaching the end of 2014 and then LU blew the f***ing doors open and gave me wrestling as I had always wanted it and maybe something will come along and do it again but I am not holding hope for that one.
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Post by sfvega on Dec 3, 2020 12:49:12 GMT -5
The problem boils down to the fanbase, and AEW's inability (or unwillingness) to tell their fans to stop being idiots. Yeah, maybe your delivery of your opinion needs some work. And we WERE discussing something we actually agree on, but again you seem to word it in a way that is just really inflammatory.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Dec 3, 2020 12:53:21 GMT -5
I think the issue basically boils down to no promotion is perfect. WWE is the promotion you watch if you want a quick hit considering you can miss multiple weeks of the show and still understand what is going on. AEW is the promotion you should watch if you want long overarching storylines which require almost weekly viewing. Like...I enjoy AEW but good god the fanbase is basically Rick and Morty levels of awful. Outside of the women's division, you aren't allowed to criticize any aspect of the company without its fans jumping you. WWE has the same problem, but to a significantly lower extent. I don't agree with your other post, which seems needlessly divisive, but I do agree with part of this. I really like AEW and I haven't watched WWE in years outside of RR/WM. But I do feel like any criticism of AEW gets shouted down. And I like the product and watch every week, but they have ups and downs just like anyone else. But a lot of people refuse to even entertain the idea that people can find some of the things they do to be negative or miss the mark. And it's way worse on Twitter than here. It doesn't at all need to be this tribal, extremist thing. It's still just wrasslin. Especially when fans bring similar criticisms to Main roster show discussions. Sometimes it’s best to not comment. Except for a rare occasion, I don’t post in AEW sections for that reason. I saw a meme on FB. It was a picture of Goldberg on top captioned with “WWE sucks for bringing in old guys all the time.” Followed by a picture of Sting captioned “AEW signed Sting! We love Sting! AEW! AEW!” Do I think there is some truth to that sentiment? Yes. But it isn’t really called for to post something like that because it’s not cut and dry and just adds fuel to the fire of petty argument.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Dec 3, 2020 12:57:32 GMT -5
Like AEW isn’t my cup of tea. WWE main roster is my style preference when done right. (Whether or not it has been is another conversation.) I like character driven programming than in ring work. Would rather watch it than anything else. But that’s me. Thus, I’m not going to interrupt an AEW live thread and point out everything I don’t like and nitpick and reach for criticisms that aren’t that big of a deal. I just don’t think it’s respectful to people who do like it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:58:48 GMT -5
The wrestling game is pretty dull and insular and I’m not sure when/if that’ll change. Especially during a year that felt like 10 years, wrestling’s snail’s pace of adapting is reaaaallly starting to show and that’s not a WWE thing. The whole industry needs a punch in the mouth before things get mildly exciting again. Bruh, yes. I need something truly different to shake shit up. The whole presentation of wrestling is so boring as passé at this point nothing really has my attention. But I do feel like any criticism of AEW gets shouted down. And I like the product and watch every week, but they have ups and downs just like anyone else. But a lot of people refuse to even entertain the idea that people can find some of the things they do to be negative or miss the mark. And it's way worse on Twitter than here. It doesn't at all need to be this tribal, extremist thing. It's still just wrasslin. One of the main reasons I’m not really feeling the product anymore. The fanboyism takes the fun out of it.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Dec 3, 2020 12:59:00 GMT -5
I mean I think the problem is even when you have something great you have sooooooooo much first run programing it all blends together. There are 7 hours of programing the WWE wants you to think is important so the great stuff gets watered down because it has to, all the middle of the road typical stuff is double cause it has to be and their is more crap cause you have to put something out.
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Post by mistery on Dec 3, 2020 13:03:26 GMT -5
The problem boils down to the fanbase, and AEW's inability (or unwillingness) to tell their fans to stop being idiots. Yeah, maybe your delivery of your opinion needs some work. And we WERE discussing something we actually agree on, but again you seem to word it in a way that is just really inflammatory. I'm not saying all of their fans are this way though? I'm saying that the more...passionate fans out there seem to not understand how to behave. Like most of my friends who are AEW and/or WWE fans aren't going on Twitter and taking every opportunity they have to dunk on AEW/WWE or other promotions. But a vocal minority can easily drown out the legitimate fans who appreciate both products, and it paints a bad picture when neither company does anything to actually stop that kind of toxic behavior. If I wanted to be inflammatory, I would say something along the lines of "AEW or WWE fans outright suck and have no redeeming qualities and act like complete children on the internet when another promotion is brought up". But I'm not that kind of person. Because I'm not going to bunch everyone together, because I don't see everything as black or white. But I am going to call out bad behavior, as futile as it is. --- But back on topic, while I think WWE's main roster product is almost a complete mess, they don't really have a choice in the case of RAW. It's been widely reported on that USA Network has mandated RAW goes three hours every week, and that Vince hates it. But he doesn't have a choice in the matter. There's a reason why Smackdown is widely viewed as the better show. They have less time to fill, so they have to focus more on select storylines. Same goes for NXT, which rotates its storylines out on a regular basis if you aren't a champion. WWE is basically in a no win situation right now regarding their programming if your problem is there is too much of it. If they axe a show, it certainly won't be RAW or Smackdown. It'll be NXT. And that'll drive off some of their more hardcore fans, as well as seriously hurt their roster.
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Allie Kitsune
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Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 3, 2020 13:32:06 GMT -5
Why does the allegory have to be “pushing a boulder up a hill”? It’s not that dramatic. WWE has aspects about it that entertain me, and a number of things that make my eyes roll. NJPW is my favorite company right now, and they’re not perfect either. Same case with AEW, they’ve got a compelling product but they also do some things that I don’t think work well. I think the issue basically boils down to no promotion is perfect. WWE is the promotion you watch if you want a quick hit considering you can miss multiple weeks of the show and still understand what is going on. AEW is the promotion you should watch if you want long overarching storylines which require almost weekly viewing. Like...I enjoy AEW but good god the fanbase is basically Rick and Morty levels of awful. Outside of the women's division, you aren't allowed to criticize any aspect of the company without its fans jumping you. WWE has the same problem, but to a significantly lower extent. Yeah, a friend of mine (that doesn't post OR lurk here) has that sort of attitude. He constantly tells me "I'm competitive. I want a war. I want AEW to directly put Vince out of business. I want AEW to turn every other promotion into its developmentals. I want them to take Okada and Ibushi from New Japan. I've chosen my side, and I want to win." I try to tell him that I'm personally not that kind of wrestling fan. But he doesn't really listen. He wants me to declare "Team Vince" so he can have a sort of proxy competition against me.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 3, 2020 13:38:24 GMT -5
Really, I’m just a fan of pro wrestling as a whole . There’s always going to be companies that do certain things well and struggle in other departments. I try to look at the overall health and quality of the scene.
I do understand why people are saying the style of presentation needs to shift. But the amount of quality wrestling available right now is a silver lining. It’s gonna lead to more experimentation, the kind that caused the 80s and 90s shifts. Not guaranteeing that’ll happen again (WWE needs to be less agent-reliant first, including when HHH takes charge), but it increases its likelihood.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 3, 2020 15:09:57 GMT -5
Personally, I think it depends what you are looking for and what you are expecting.
Like, I know what I am going to get with Raw and Smackdown, and I adjust my expectation accordingly.
I know what I'm going to get from NXT and AEW, and adjust for that too.
What I will say though, is that there is a much much much more negative opinion of WWE at the moment. Some of that is absolutely justified and related to the product, some is justified but related to the business decisions and leadership. Some of it is just bitching for the sake, or about things that will never, ever change and most people involved dont even seem to care much about. I find that when I really want to enjoy a show these days, I dont watch it here anymore. I find the live threads so negative and so cynical, and it does bring things down when you see that.
Add in some of the same voices constantly shitting on WWE at every turn, and this forum can create a microcosm of negativity, some of which really isn't warranted at all times.
There is no doubt that AEW yesterday had some interesting developments, but there are still some glaring issues, and some of it feels just as repetitive as what WWE does, just with slightly newer faces.
For me though, between some elements of the main roster, the excellence of NXT, the old new faces getting exposure in AEW and the vibrant indie scene, it's a pretty good time to be watching pro-wrestling imo.
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warden
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Post by warden on Dec 3, 2020 15:15:40 GMT -5
There's excitement in pro wrestling these days? That's news to me
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 18:17:33 GMT -5
Not gonna front, I actually don’t think things will improve that much when Vince kicks it. HHH have different ideas but he’s also proven himself to be just as much of a stubborn blockhead as Vince (see: Velveteen Dream). The wrestling game is pretty dull and insular and I’m not sure when/if that’ll change. Especially during a year that felt like 10 years, wrestling’s snail’s pace of adapting is reaaaallly starting to show and that’s not a WWE thing. The whole industry needs a punch in the mouth before things get mildly exciting again. Yeah, I think things would be much better creatively under HHH and Steph, but this Velveteen Dream shit has showed that HHH can be just as big of a scumbag as Vince, so I know things won't be anywhere near close to perfect.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 3, 2020 18:26:09 GMT -5
I stopped watching WWE because I think they're unethical, not because of the product, however the main issue with WWE is that they have absolute contempt for you as a fan.
All of these other promotions are trying to make their fans happy, and engaging with other promotions and the wider world. They also aren't demanding to be respected as something that isn't men fake fighting each other.
WWE wants to be wrestling but not wrestling and wants you to give them money but don't stand too close to them, and their booking tells you that. They want you to like what they want you to like.
Everywhere else just wants you to like their show.
Even when I was still watching WWE, this just made it really, really hard to be positive about it, because even though sometimes good stuff could happen, they still had this weird contempt. And then the cognitive dissonance of Vince's real opinions being put in the mouths of heels, which is like... so confusing a choice.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 3, 2020 18:37:17 GMT -5
WWE is such product. You know when things are just manufactured and soulless and empty? That’s WWE. Everything looks the same. Everyone looks the same. Everything is the same.
The faces are all bitches. The heels are boobs. There’s no reason to cheer anyone. No reason to boo anyone.
Maybe it’s because I’m older than most of the roster now, they don’t seem like special people. They’re just people. Boring people.
Every story they can possibly tell has been told and they don’t have the writers or the imagination to make a recycled story interesting.
Every AJ Styles story is the same. Is he champion? Our work is done. Is AJ champion? No? Ok, he’s challenging for a title.
There’s no reason at all to tune in to WWE, unless you have serious sleep issues and need a good nap.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 3, 2020 18:50:40 GMT -5
...And it’s like... I wish we could get it back to the point where we were like that for WWE again. Where we didn’t have to worry about booking or where so-and-so is on the card because they were doing awesome stuff regardless, where people could lose clean and not have it mean your career is flatlining or the booker man hates you in real life, where results happen because they further the story and not because they couldn’t decide on a winner, where old legends are actually useful and not taking spots from the young guys, where we could enjoy any of the actually good stuff happening instead of being distant and reluctant to do so because you know in the back of your mind that it won’t last, where it gives you the same kind of joys that you felt when you were younger. *sigh* Are we really gonna have to wait until the old man dies for things to change for the better? We all know he ain’t retiring, and nobody lives longer than old white billionaires with poor morals. Is there really no hope? And this is coming from someone who is like, I TRY MY HARDEST to keep an open mind, to enjoy the good stuff as it comes, but I can only push the boulder uphill for so long. Just needed to vent there, because the difference between the discourse between the AEW board and the WWE board is like night and day. Yeah. It sucks. I don’t want to harp on it. But older/smarter people on this board have mentioned that throughout the years a lot of Vince’s success has had a lot to do with luck and the assistance of other people. His current age and personality defects (And I do feel comfortable calling them ‘defects’) cannot be understated. That said, good shit always happens from time to time. AEW isn’t always perfect, ROH isn’t always perfect NJPW isn’t always perfect and on, and on, and on... The silver lining to WWE is that it isn’t going anywhere.. So eventually it will change. I also think some have to come to grips it might be not be for them anymore either. Not just WWE: wrestling overall. I’m going through the same conundrum with Star Wars, I get it. Lance Storm’s “Pineapple on Pizza-AEW” comparison applies to WWE as well. When people yell “Stop supporting this company”, “Why do people keep supporting this company?” I simply cannot bring myself to agree. I get it that WWE tends to cross moral lines (as does most of wrestling TBH). Im trying to be of the opinion you have to let people enjoy things ( and sometimes dislike things because that brings certain individuals joy and that often doesn’t get mentioned). Especially this year. Life’s too short. There are things in WWE’s past to enjoy, there are things currently very enjoyable and there will be things to enjoy in its future.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 3, 2020 18:57:46 GMT -5
...And it’s like... I wish we could get it back to the point where we were like that for WWE again. Where we didn’t have to worry about booking or where so-and-so is on the card because they were doing awesome stuff regardless, where people could lose clean and not have it mean your career is flatlining or the booker man hates you in real life, where results happen because they further the story and not because they couldn’t decide on a winner, where old legends are actually useful and not taking spots from the young guys, where we could enjoy any of the actually good stuff happening instead of being distant and reluctant to do so because you know in the back of your mind that it won’t last, where it gives you the same kind of joys that you felt when you were younger. *sigh* Are we really gonna have to wait until the old man dies for things to change for the better? We all know he ain’t retiring, and nobody lives longer than old white billionaires with poor morals. Is there really no hope? And this is coming from someone who is like, I TRY MY HARDEST to keep an open mind, to enjoy the good stuff as it comes, but I can only push the boulder uphill for so long. Just needed to vent there, because the difference between the discourse between the AEW board and the WWE board is like night and day. Yeah. It sucks. I don’t want to harp on it. But older/smarter people on this board have mentioned that throughout the years a lot of Vince’s success has had a lot to do with luck and the assistance of other people. His current age and personality defects (And I do feel comfortable calling them ‘defects’) cannot be understated. That said, good shit always happens from time to time. AEW isn’t always perfect, ROH isn’t always perfect NJPW isn’t always perfect and on, and on, and on... The silver lining to WWE is that it isn’t going anywhere.. So eventually it will change. I also think some have to come to grips it might be not be for them anymore either. Not just WWE: wrestling overall. I’m going through the same conundrum with Star Wars, I get it. Lance Storm’s “Pineapple on Pizza-AEW” comparison applies to WWE as well. When people yell “Stop supporting this company”, “Why do people keep supporting this company?” I simply cannot bring myself to agree. I get it that WWE tends to cross moral lines (as does most of wrestling TBH). Im trying to be of the opinion you have to let people enjoy things ( and sometimes dislike things because that brings certain individuals joy and that often doesn’t get mentioned). Especially this year. Life’s too short. There are things in WWE’s past to enjoy, there are things currently very enjoyable and there will be things to enjoy in its future. All those “See you next week!” and “Let’s wait and see” comments dried up on this board long ago.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 3, 2020 19:00:06 GMT -5
Yeah. It sucks. I don’t want to harp on it. But older/smarter people on this board have mentioned that throughout the years a lot of Vince’s success has had a lot to do with luck and the assistance of other people. His current age and personality defects (And I do feel comfortable calling them ‘defects’) cannot be understated. That said, good shit always happens from time to time. AEW isn’t always perfect, ROH isn’t always perfect NJPW isn’t always perfect and on, and on, and on... The silver lining to WWE is that it isn’t going anywhere.. So eventually it will change. I also think some have to come to grips it might be not be for them anymore either. Not just WWE: wrestling overall. I’m going through the same conundrum with Star Wars, I get it. Lance Storm’s “Pineapple on Pizza-AEW” comparison applies to WWE as well. When people yell “Stop supporting this company”, “Why do people keep supporting this company?” I simply cannot bring myself to agree. I get it that WWE tends to cross moral lines (as does most of wrestling TBH). Im trying to be of the opinion you have to let people enjoy things ( and sometimes dislike things because that brings certain individuals joy and that often doesn’t get mentioned). Especially this year. Life’s too short. There are things in WWE’s past to enjoy, there are things currently very enjoyable and there will be things to enjoy in its future. All those “See you next week!” and “Let’s wait and see” comments dried up on this board long ago. Every news post these days comes packaged with a few Network cancellations.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 3, 2020 19:05:37 GMT -5
Not gonna front, I actually don’t think things will improve that much when Vince kicks it. HHH have different ideas but he’s also proven himself to be just as much of a stubborn blockhead as Vince (see: Velveteen Dream). HHH though has shown he is able to change and adapt his booking decisions though... people got over in NXT that he didn't get but he didn't cut them off at the knees... or people weren't getting over so they let them change parts of their character to help... rather than double down and push that harder...
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