Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,936
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 3, 2020 19:09:15 GMT -5
All those “See you next week!” and “Let’s wait and see” comments dried up on this board long ago. Every news post these days comes packaged with a few Network cancellations. You’re right but it seems most of those are tied to WWE’s latest crime against humanity.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 3, 2020 21:25:52 GMT -5
Not gonna front, I actually don’t think things will improve that much when Vince kicks it. HHH have different ideas but he’s also proven himself to be just as much of a stubborn blockhead as Vince (see: Velveteen Dream). HHH though has shown he is able to change and adapt his booking decisions though... people got over in NXT that he didn't get but he didn't cut them off at the knees... or people weren't getting over so they let them change parts of their character to help... rather than double down and push that harder... Yeah, you right about that. I think he’s at least better than Vince in that regard so who knows, hopefully I’m wrong and homie changes the game (haha, see what I did there).
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sfvega
Grimlock
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Post by sfvega on Dec 3, 2020 23:31:17 GMT -5
I don't agree with your other post, which seems needlessly divisive, but I do agree with part of this. I really like AEW and I haven't watched WWE in years outside of RR/WM. But I do feel like any criticism of AEW gets shouted down. And I like the product and watch every week, but they have ups and downs just like anyone else. But a lot of people refuse to even entertain the idea that people can find some of the things they do to be negative or miss the mark. And it's way worse on Twitter than here. It doesn't at all need to be this tribal, extremist thing. It's still just wrasslin. Especially when fans bring similar criticisms to Main roster show discussions. Sometimes it’s best to not comment. Except for a rare occasion, I don’t post in AEW sections for that reason. I saw a meme on FB. It was a picture of Goldberg on top captioned with “WWE sucks for bringing in old guys all the time.” Followed by a picture of Sting captioned “AEW signed Sting! We love Sting! AEW! AEW!” Do I think there is some truth to that sentiment? Yes. But it isn’t really called for to post something like that because it’s not cut and dry and just adds fuel to the fire of petty argument. Agreed. I really like AEW, but don't post about it very much here or elsewhere because I feel like any even-handed ststements about the product will be (and have been) taken as critical and get this visceral response sometimes. Just not worth it and not a productive discussion.
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Post by mistery on Dec 3, 2020 23:32:53 GMT -5
Not gonna front, I actually don’t think things will improve that much when Vince kicks it. HHH have different ideas but he’s also proven himself to be just as much of a stubborn blockhead as Vince (see: Velveteen Dream). HHH though has shown he is able to change and adapt his booking decisions though... people got over in NXT that he didn't get but he didn't cut them off at the knees... or people weren't getting over so they let them change parts of their character to help... rather than double down and push that harder... Yup. I mean if you want a good example of this, earlier this year Io Shirai did an interview with some Japanese news outlet. One of the things she mentioned was that her new persona was entirely her idea. She realized her original face character wasn't popular with audiences over here, even saying that they value character work just as much as ring work, if not more so. So she went to Triple H and HBK and mentioned that she wanted to change up her character, and had some ideas. They gave her the greenlight, and although things didn't go completely smoothly (she was originally slated to turn on Kairi, not Candice, but as you can imagine, Vince wanted Kairi at the time), she became a heel for awhile. But eventually was forced back into a tweener/babyface role (by the audience), and is now one of NXT's biggest stars, arguably only behind Finn Balor at the moment. That would never happen with Vince. He would double down on her face persona, and when it didn't work out, she would be jobbing on Main Event.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 2,999
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Post by Venti on Dec 3, 2020 23:49:23 GMT -5
I feel like my true passion for WWE left around the time Punk left.
I still like catching NXT every once in a while just to see some good wrestling without having to pay too much attention to the angles. Plus I'm a huge Rhea fan and love seeing her matches.
Other than that, most WWE I watch is classic Federation stuff with Hogan, Austin, Bret, Taker, etc.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,508
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Dec 4, 2020 1:59:21 GMT -5
Lets us all just wait and see and get back to discussing this next week. If things have not changed we can all cancel our network subscriptions for a month or so.
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Post by Fake Jesus on Dec 4, 2020 2:05:54 GMT -5
I feel like people confuse Triple H's personality with his ability as a showrunner. Is he a good guy? No, and if that's what keeps you from watching wwe that'll never change, but Paul Levesque's particular need for feeding his ego will probably prevent him from putting on a universally panned show and not trying to fix it. If he takes over booking WWE his biggest focus will be surpassing Vince
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,300
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 4, 2020 2:23:43 GMT -5
Like AEW isn’t my cup of tea. WWE main roster is my style preference when done right. (Whether or not it has been is another conversation.) I like character driven programming than in ring work. Would rather watch it than anything else. But that’s me. Thus, I’m not going to interrupt an AEW live thread and point out everything I don’t like and nitpick and reach for criticisms that aren’t that big of a deal. I just don’t think it’s respectful to people who do like it. ? If you like character driven programming than AEW is for you. That's a huge aspect of it. You see characters develop and have actual freedom with how they present themselves, and the result is some of the best promos I've heard in a LONG time. Yes, there's a lot of "that boring wrestling stuff" to wade through, but the shows aren't long enough that you can't easily pick and choose.
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Dub H
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I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Dec 4, 2020 2:28:46 GMT -5
Like AEW isn’t my cup of tea. WWE main roster is my style preference when done right. (Whether or not it has been is another conversation.) I like character driven programming than in ring work. Would rather watch it than anything else. But that’s me. Thus, I’m not going to interrupt an AEW live thread and point out everything I don’t like and nitpick and reach for criticisms that aren’t that big of a deal. I just don’t think it’s respectful to people who do like it. ? If you like character driven programming than AEW is for you. That's a huge aspect of it. You see characters develop and have actual freedom with how they present themselves, and the result is some of the best promos I've heard in a LONG time. Yes, there's a lot of "that boring wrestling stuff" to wade through, but the shows aren't long enough that you can't easily pick and choose. Right, personally,not gonna shit on people for liking WWE but I cant for life of me say WWE has better charactera when I think they have some of the worst.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 4, 2020 2:36:39 GMT -5
The problem boils down to the fanbase, and AEW's inability (or unwillingness) to tell their fans to stop being idiots. Yeah, maybe your delivery of your opinion needs some work. And we WERE discussing something we actually agree on, but again you seem to word it in a way that is just really inflammatory. Now now, maybe some threads from people that amount to like, "Cody is a lisping f- I mean, uhh, a bad face..." totally are in good faith.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 2:39:20 GMT -5
Honestly with the kind of PR disaster of a year it's been with WWE I basically just can't at all with them at this point. Like, at the time of the Rumble in 2012 I hadn't watched since Raw 1000 and I still made a point of watching then because it was the Rumble. This year? Not a snowball's chance in hell I'm giving them $10.
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Post by Fake Jesus on Dec 4, 2020 2:42:19 GMT -5
Like AEW isn’t my cup of tea. WWE main roster is my style preference when done right. (Whether or not it has been is another conversation.) I like character driven programming than in ring work. Would rather watch it than anything else. But that’s me. Thus, I’m not going to interrupt an AEW live thread and point out everything I don’t like and nitpick and reach for criticisms that aren’t that big of a deal. I just don’t think it’s respectful to people who do like it. ? If you like character driven programming than AEW is for you. That's a huge aspect of it. You see characters develop and have actual freedom with how they present themselves, and the result is some of the best promos I've heard in a LONG time. Yes, there's a lot of "that boring wrestling stuff" to wade through, but the shows aren't long enough that you can't easily pick and choose. It's a very strange position that makes me wonder how much AEW the guy has seen. If anything it's WWE that has a bigger focus on in-ring work and house show-style match cycles/wrestling for the sake of wrestling while AEW's roster is honestly weaker in-ring with a greater emphasis on character and story.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 4, 2020 2:52:48 GMT -5
For full disclosure, I’ve watched very little AEW other than the full episode of Dynamite with the first Cassidy v Jericho match, scattered segments here and there and one match from Dark with the woman with the robot facepaint. I keep close enough tabs on it that I could recognise most of the roster, tell you who the champions are and what the storylines are, but... yeah. That’s on me, though, not anything they’re doing or not doing.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,040
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Post by fw91 on Dec 4, 2020 6:57:36 GMT -5
? If you like character driven programming than AEW is for you. That's a huge aspect of it. You see characters develop and have actual freedom with how they present themselves, and the result is some of the best promos I've heard in a LONG time. Yes, there's a lot of "that boring wrestling stuff" to wade through, but the shows aren't long enough that you can't easily pick and choose. It's a very strange position that makes me wonder how much AEW the guy has seen. If anything it's WWE that has a bigger focus on in-ring work and house show-style match cycles/wrestling for the sake of wrestling while AEW's roster is honestly weaker in-ring with a greater emphasis on character and story. I’ve seen a couple of episodes, to give it a fair shot and Idk just couldn’t get into it. Like I’d rather see more Roman/Jey like stuff then Elite and Inner circle stuff.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 4, 2020 7:13:03 GMT -5
? If you like character driven programming than AEW is for you. That's a huge aspect of it. You see characters develop and have actual freedom with how they present themselves, and the result is some of the best promos I've heard in a LONG time. Yes, there's a lot of "that boring wrestling stuff" to wade through, but the shows aren't long enough that you can't easily pick and choose. Right, personally,not gonna shit on people for liking WWE but I cant for life of me say WWE has better wrestlers when I think they have some of the worst. Right now I’d say WWE has one of the *best* workrate-based rosters since 2000-2002. The issue is how they’re stifled with their angles and match production.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 4, 2020 7:23:09 GMT -5
So to sum it up: WWE: We can’t get any buzz and respect because of Vince being so stubborn. But we’ve got good talent that’s still fun to watch in spots. AEW: Our company is new and yeah we have a lot of workrate, but we’re hungry and we hope the older fans can give us a shot. NWA: It’s Nick Aldis time again, ya’ll. ROH: Forget the MSG showing, we’re trying to inch our way back. Impact: Forget the Dixie era, we’re trying to make our way back, too. NJPW:
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 4, 2020 7:25:11 GMT -5
Ironically I feel like the overall feeling of the shows has slowly started to improve as Pritchard took over both shows. I felt like Heyman's pre pandemic shows were a jumbled mess and I felt early lockdown it was just a consistent holding pattern with no story advancement. Originally I had the theory that WWE always felt like fans returning was just around the corner so they didn't want to advance things too much without them but that theory didn't hold true with either NXT or Smackdown.
I do feel that for the main roster shows there is now at least an attempt in some angles to improve the show. Aint perfect by any means but when I watch Raw I at least feel I'm watching a different show when from Spring and early Summer it felt like a rerun every week.
I do also feel that some of Vince's political views have also tended to turn fans off quite a bit.
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Post by Ryushinku on Dec 4, 2020 7:27:40 GMT -5
I've kept my WWE intake in fairly limited chunks for about 17 years now, and I really think it's helped. I watch the big PPVs, notable parts of important Raws/Smackdowns/NXT, and read reports for the rest. Because I just don't have the stamina (or time) to watch everything as I did around 97-03. Having said that, WWE is both ubiquitous and also old. It's built up decades of dodgy, carny business practices and accumulated grime over that time. The performers can be fresh, but the company itself is fairly stagnant and badly in need of clearing out the closet and becoming a lot more ethically responsible. It's still in the old Vince mindset, because they still have the same old Vince in charge. I don't think there will be massive overhaul and change when he passes and Hunter takes control, but there will be change. I wish Vince would get out and retire while he still has some time left, rather than what most of us suspect will be eventually dying in Gorilla Position during a show. So to sum it up: WWE: We can’t get any buzz and respect because of Vince being so stubborn. But we’ve got good talent that’s still fun to watch in spots. AEW: Our company is new and yeah we have a lot of workrate, but we’re hungry and we hope the older fans can give us a shot. NWA: It’s Nick Aldis time again, ya’ll. ROH: Forget the MSG showing, we’re trying to inch our way back. Impact: Forget the Dixie era, we’re trying to make our way back, too. NJPW: Heh, this is pretty succinct, as well.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 4, 2020 7:38:37 GMT -5
I've kept my WWE intake in fairly limited chunks for about 17 years now, and I really think it's helped. I watch the big PPVs, notable parts of important Raws/Smackdowns/NXT, and read reports for the rest. Because I just don't have the stamina (or time) to watch everything as I did around 97-03. Having said that, WWE is both ubiquitous and also old. It's built up decades of dodgy, carny business practices and accumulated grime over that time. The performers can be fresh, but the company itself is fairly stagnant and badly in need of clearing out the closet and becoming a lot more ethically responsible. It's still in the old Vince mindset, because they still have the same old Vince in charge. I don't think there will be massive overhaul and change when he passes and Hunter takes control, but there will be change. I wish Vince would get out and retire while he still has some time left, rather than what most of us suspect will be eventually dying in Gorilla Position during a show. So to sum it up: WWE: We can’t get any buzz and respect because of Vince being so stubborn. But we’ve got good talent that’s still fun to watch in spots. AEW: Our company is new and yeah we have a lot of workrate, but we’re hungry and we hope the older fans can give us a shot. NWA: It’s Nick Aldis time again, ya’ll. ROH: Forget the MSG showing, we’re trying to inch our way back. Impact: Forget the Dixie era, we’re trying to make our way back, too. NJPW: Heh, this is pretty succinct, as well. I kind of get the impression that Hunter getting full booking control may not be the slam dunk it looked like a few years ago. Seems like Hunter is solely focusing on NXT anymore and that Vince has started to look outwardly to other replacements or maybe even making Shane his successor now.
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Post by RI Richmark on Dec 4, 2020 7:56:11 GMT -5
I've kept my WWE intake in fairly limited chunks for about 17 years now, and I really think it's helped. I watch the big PPVs, notable parts of important Raws/Smackdowns/NXT, and read reports for the rest. Because I just don't have the stamina (or time) to watch everything as I did around 97-03. Having said that, WWE is both ubiquitous and also old. It's built up decades of dodgy, carny business practices and accumulated grime over that time. The performers can be fresh, but the company itself is fairly stagnant and badly in need of clearing out the closet and becoming a lot more ethically responsible. It's still in the old Vince mindset, because they still have the same old Vince in charge. I don't think there will be massive overhaul and change when he passes and Hunter takes control, but there will be change. I wish Vince would get out and retire while he still has some time left, rather than what most of us suspect will be eventually dying in Gorilla Position during a show. Heh, this is pretty succinct, as well. I kind of get the impression that Hunter getting full booking control may not be the slam dunk it looked like a few years ago. Seems like Hunter is solely focusing on NXT anymore and that Vince has started to look outwardly to other replacements or maybe even making Shane his successor now.So we get a 3 hour Raw Underground?
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